zompist bboard

sirdanilot wrote:

Zaarin wrote:I've got a weird phonology I want feedback on:

/m n ŋ ŋˁ/
/p pʰ t tʰ k kʰ gˁ (ʔ)/
/s ʃ x xˁ/
/r ɾ/
/l/

/ɑ ɑː i iː u uː/

Syllable structure is CV(C)

Aspirated consonants deaspirate word-finally
Unaspirated plosives voice between vowels
/ŋˁ gˁ xˁ/ become [ʕ ʕ ħ] word-finally and after [ɑ(ː)]
/ʔ/ is marginal and occurs only at syllable onset and rarely in positions other than word-initial

My inspiration is sort of Sumerian turned weird.

I dont even know how to pronounce a pharyngealized velar without turning them into a uvular sound; even if your conpeople do then it will probably change into that diachronically very very soon. Just change the into uvular and then have an allophonic rule that they become pharyngeals in certan conditions. This is all much more logical and changes from uvular to pharyngeal are also attested.

Also having only a voiced uvular stop and not /q/ is probably not attested. Voicing is 'difficult' (marked), and often you have a voiceless counterpart but not a voiced one rather than vice versa.

Hmm, it appears you're right. I'll probably go with either uvulars or glottals (/ʔˁ hˁ/) then.

Nortaneous wrote:Which part of Africa?

/kx/, ejectives, initial /ŋ/, and two tones points to Southern Bantu (minus the clicks). As sirdanilot said it looks like it could be Cushitic though, and I'd add the geographically close Omotic and East Sudanic to those, because afaict they're broadly similar and vary almost as much inside their families as between each other.

sirdanilot wrote:Also having only a voiced uvular stop and not /q/ is probably not attested. Voicing is 'difficult' (marked), and often you have a voiceless counterpart but not a voiced one rather than vice versa.

Mongolian rather famously has a lopsided /g gʲ ɢ/ with no /k kʲ q/, and no other voiced stops, though it stands out as remarkably weird (and has aspirated velars in loans, though I don't know how prevalent those are). Tehrani (prestige) Persian has /ɢ/ and no /q/ via borrowing, but it does otherwise have voiced stops and fricatives. I also wouldn't discount pharyngealized velars entirely: there may be a reason you could argue they should be considered /gˁ/, etc even if they are phonetically most often [ɢ] or [ɢˁ], such as say additional rules that shed the pharyngealization and end up with [g], possibly with a [ʕ] kicked out elsewhere: /mɑgˁ-ɑ/ [mɑɢˁɑ] and /mɑgˁ-ʃu/ [mɑʕʃu], but /mɑgˁ-iʃu/ [mɑgiʕʃu] and /migˁ-ʃu/ [migʃu].

vokzhen wrote:

sirdanilot wrote:Also having only a voiced uvular stop and not /q/ is probably not attested. Voicing is 'difficult' (marked), and often you have a voiceless counterpart but not a voiced one rather than vice versa.

Mongolian rather famously has a lopsided /g gʲ ɢ/ with no /k kʲ q/, and no other voiced stops, though it stands out as remarkably weird (and has aspirated velars in loans, though I don't know how prevalent those are). Tehrani (prestige) Persian has /ɢ/ and no /q/ via borrowing, but it does otherwise have voiced stops and fricatives. I also wouldn't discount pharyngealized velars entirely: there may be a reason you could argue they should be considered /gˁ/, etc even if they are phonetically most often [ɢ] or [ɢˁ], such as say additional rules that shed the pharyngealization and end up with [g], possibly with a [ʕ] kicked out elsewhere: /mɑgˁ-ɑ/ [mɑɢˁɑ] and /mɑgˁ-ʃu/ [mɑʕʃu], but /mɑgˁ-iʃu/ [mɑgiʕʃu] and /migˁ-ʃu/ [migʃu].

I ended up going with /ɴˁ ɢˁ hˁ/--though /ɴˁ hˁ/ are actually [ʕ ħ] in most environments, and /ɢˁ/ becomes [ʔˁ] word-finally, where devoicing and debuccalizing is typical for this language (/kʰ/, for comparison, disappears entirely in this position through an intermediate [h] as in Sumerian) and [ʕ] adjacent to /ɑ/ as before. Though /ɴˁ/ is not usually realized as a nasal, it does have the fun effect of nasalizing the preceding vowel.

EDIT: I know having a phonemic /ɴ/ is borderline unheard of (there are a couple candidates where it marginally exists), but like I said it is not actually usually realized as [ɴ] but it is etymologically a nasal and does cause nasalization of preceding vowels.

/b t k ʔ m n ŋ f s ɾ~z~d/

a e o i u
0 a i u i ɨ
? ɔ ɛ ɛ ei ou
n au i ai i u

a ɛ ɔ i ɨ u
ai au wa ei ou

katmada ki zukashifan rambatmuzi kuraben kabanzumasu
[kaumara ki zɨkasifau raubɔmɨzi kɨrabi kabauzɨmasɨ]
kaumara ki zykasifau raubomyzi kyrabi kabauzymasy

nah

The phonoloy of both Vrkhazhian dialects.
Uzerian:
/a e̞ i o̞ ə u/
/ae̯ ao̯ ɛo̯/
/m̥ m n̥ n ɴ/
/p ʰp pʶ b t ʰt tʶ d k ʰk g q ʰq ʔ/
/t͡s c͡ç ɟ͡ʝ/
/ɸ β s z ç ʝ x ɣ χ h/
/ɹ̥ ɹ j w/
/r ʀ/
/l̥ l ʎ̝̊/
/m̩ n̩ ɹ̩/

Mukhebic:
/a e̞ i o̞ ə u/
/ae̯ ao̯/
/m̥ m n̥ n ɴ/
/p b ᵐb t d ⁿd k g ᵑg q ʔ/
/t͡s c͡ç ɟ͡ʝ/
/f v ᶬv s z ⁿz ç ʝ ᶮʝ x ɣ ᵑɣ χ h/
/ɹ̥ ɹ j w/
/r/
/l̥ l ʎ̝̊/
/m̩ n̩ ɹ̩/

Phonology of Lonmai Luna/Liunan:

Consonants
nasals: /m n/
plosives and affricates: /p b t d ʧ ʤ k g/
fricatives: /f s ʃ h/
other sonorants: /r l j w/
Note: /ʧ/ and /ʤ/ are only used in foreign-origin words

Vowels
monophthongs: /i e a o u/
diphthongs: /ai ei oi au ou iu/
Note:
1. /iu/ has an allophoneme /y/
2. /ei/ /oi/ /au/ /ou/ and /iu/ are only used in foreign-origin words
Syllable structure

In native non-compound words, no word can start or end with two consonants, and there can only be at most three consonants between two vowels.

below are permitted combination of consonants between vowels in native non-compound words:

two consonants:
/s/+voiceless plosive, nasal, /l/
voiceless plosive, liquid, /n/+/s/
voiceless plosive+/l/
liquid, /m/+/f/
/n/+/h/
liquid, nasal+plosive

three consonants:
liquid, /n/,+/s/+voiceless plosive
/s/+voiceless plosive+/l/
nasal+plosive+liquid, /s/
/n/+/s/+/l/

voiced plosives and fricatives other than /s/ cannot be the coda of a syllable in native words.

however, in foreign-origin words, such a restriction does not valid, some foreign-origin words have initial clusters and even final clusters.

Upperdreamy Inventory

Consonants

/n/ n
/[super]n[/super]b t [super]n[/super]g/ b t g
/f s [super]n[/super]z χ/ p/ f s z k/ h
/[super]n[/super]ɹ/ l
/ɾ/ r

Notes:

*Even though /b/, /g/, /ɹ/, and /z/ are prenasalized, i'll be marking them as oral for simplicity's sake. Furthermore, <l> and <k/ h> will be marked as their linguistically more common counterparts /l/ and /x/, respectively.
*The alveolar consonants are purely alveolar, and the apical-laminal distinction is not recognized among Upperdreamy speakers.
*The <p/ f> and <k/ h> distinction in the orthography is used to mark two different geminate forms: <p> and <k> lengthen to /p:/ and /k:/ (respectively), while <f> and <h> lengthen to /f:/ and /x:/ (respectively).
*All consonants can be geminate.
*/n/ merges with the place of articulation of the succeeding consonant.

Allophony:

*Short /g/, /z/, /l/, and /x/ are pronounced /[super]n[/super]ʔ~0/, /[super]n[/super]dz/, /z/, and /h~0/(respectively) syllable-initially. Nasalized /0/ occurs in some dialects for /g/-.
*/s/, /z/, /l/, and /t/ are in free variation with /ɬ/, /ɮ/, /l/ (not English r), and /tɬ/ before back vowels. Other obstruents gain post-lateralization before back vowels, provided they are not after two consonants.
*Geminate /b/, /g/, /z/, and /l/ become /m/, /n/, /[super]n[/super]z[super]n[/super]/ (nareal /z/), and /[super]n[/super]dz/.
*/t/, /s/, /z/, /g/, /k:/, /[super]n[/super]dz(:)/, and /x/ palatalize to /tʃ/, /ʃ/, /ʒ/, /ɟ/, /c:/, /[super]n[/super]dʒ(:)/, /ç/ before front vowels and diphthongs. Similarly, all other consonants palatalize but don't change place of articulation.


Vowels and Diphthongs

/i o/ i o
/ə/ u
/æ ɒ/ e a
/iə oə/ iu ou
/əæ əɒ/ ue ua

Notes:

*All vowels can be lengthened, but long /o/ and /æ/ become /u:/ and /e:/ when in a closed syllable. Length occurs by default, except before two or more consonants.
*/i/, /æ/, /iə/ break before velars to become /je/, /eæ/, and /jai/.
*Shwa is often deleted at the end of a syllable, rather than lengthened.
*There is a pitch accent used for each vowel and diphthong. Note pitched /iə/ and /oə/ become /je/ and /wo/.

Syllable Structure/ Sandhi/ Stress

(S)S/O(O)(S)V~D(S)(O)

Wherein S=Sibilant, O=Obstruent, D= Diphthong and V=Vowel.
If shwa falls out in the vowel spot, then the middle consonants in the word become /0/.
The language is stress-timed.

Thank you for reading and i hope you like it.

Preušma

Consonants The trilled rhotic is alveolar, placed that way for compactness.

/a/ always refers to center [ä].

Vowels Oh, hey there, Avestan.

All vowels can be long.

Diphthongs Was thinking of /iu/ and /ui/ but that may be too crowded.

Minor harmony requirement: /e/ may not follow /ɛ/ and vice-versa, /o/ may not follow /ɔ/ and vice-versa.

Vowel hiatus allowed for non-close, non-identical vowels in a sequence of two (identical vowels just make a long vowel). More are separated with epenthetic /ɻ/.

Exception: schwa is always swallowed by a nearby vowel. If it follows the vowel, the vowel lengthens.

Allophonic-y things
{i, u} <---> {j, w}
{d, dʱ} <---> {l, lʱ} [1]
{pʰ, bʱ, kʰ, gʱ} <---> {ɸ, β, x, ɣ} [2]
{s, ɕ, h} <---> {z, ʑ, ɦ} [3]

[1] Generally lateral when post-vocalic and not geminated.
[2] /ɣ/ is the dominant sound of the pair, the aspirates are the dominate sounds of the others.
[3] Run-of-the-mill voicing assimilation.

[+dental] > [+postalveolar] / _ɻ, ɻ_

Obstruent + rhotic and obstruent + nasal are the only initial cluster allowed. 2-clusters are max allowed in roots, 3-clusters of sonorant + obstruent + sonorant are allowed across morpheme boundaries, and they're split up with anaptyctic schwa every 2 consonants from the right for more.

/kʰ/ may be affricate [kx] before back vowels, if it isn't [x] already.

/p t b d ɓ ʙ ɢ ʔ/
/x X h/
/m n ŋ ɲ/
/f v w/
/r/
/s z dʒ/

/i u/
/e o/
/ɛ ɔ/
/a ɑ/

Tones:
rising tone
falling tone
high tone
low tone

/p t k/
/b~β~w/
/m n ŋ/
/f θ h/
/j~l~ʎ/

/ɪ ʏ ɛ œ ɑ o ʊ/
/iː~ɛː yː~œː uː~ɔː ɑː/

CV

All of these allophones are in free variation.

/p b t t͡s d d͡z k g/
p b t tz d z c g
/f θ s ʃ x/
f θ s ś h
/m n ŋ/
m n gn
/ʋ ɹ l j/
v r l i
/a e i o u y/
a e i o u y
/aː ɛː eː iː ɔː uː øː yː/
á ai é/ei í au ú eu ý

(p, b, t, d, t͡s, d͡z, k, g, f, θ, s, ʃ, x, m, n, ʋ, ɹ, l)V(p, t, k, f, θ, s, ʃ, x, j)
Word-initial stops are limited to the devoiced set; voicing contrast in stops only exists intervocalically; in clusters with /m n l r/ stops only appear voiced.
Word-final /s~ʃ/ are in free variation; /x/ does not occur word-finally.
/l/ may be velarized or pharyngealized and in clusters may even merge with /ʋ/.
/ŋ/ is a marginal phoneme, and may merge with /g/.
/aː ɛː eː iː ɔː uː øː yː/ may be [ɑː æː~ae ei əi ou əu øy əy].
Vowels may be devoiced—especially high vowels—if they occur between unvoiced consonants and are followed by a stressed syllable.

Stress is generally on the second-to-last syllable. This counts for words with suffixes; for example, laucu [ˈlɔːku] + -si [si] = laucusi [lɔːˈkusi].

My caudi tisθi caθesa uslaθi piscvace.
[my ˈkɔːdzi ˈtiʃθi kaˈθesa usˈlaθi pi̥sˈkʋatʃe]

Ive got a few proto languages for my world in the works
(Sirakh (Transdesset), Nosrić and Hek-Mau-Arretja (known as Hek-Mau in universe))
The phonology for Proto Sirakh and its 3 daughter Proto languages
Proto Sirakh
Stops p p^h(ɸ) t t^h(θ) ts ts^h k k^h(x)
Fricatives s ɬ
Approxiamates w r l j
Nasals m n ŋ
Vowels i u a
vowels can be long or short
current diphthong ideas (they may change) ai ua
syllable structure is
C(L)V(C) L=wrlj

Proto West Sirakh
Stops p t ʨ k
Fricatives ɸ v s z ɬ ɕ x
Approxiamates r l j
Nasals m n
Vowels i u a (long) ɛ ɔ (short)
syllable structure is as before but C+w has developed into labials and C+j into palatals
Aspirated stops have shifted (or stabilised) as fricatives T^h > T
s>z
ŋ>n
ts>s
ts^h>s
w>v
short vowels have shifted
i>ɛ
a>ɛ
u>ɔ

Proto South Sirakh
Stops p t ts or tɬ k
Fricatives ɸ v s z ɬ x
Approxiamates r l j
Nasals m n ŋ
Vowels i u a (long) e o ə (short)
syllable structure is as before but C+w has developed into C+u>o and C+j has developed into C+i>e
Aspirated stops are as west except for ts^h which has shifted to s not t
s>z
w>v
short vowels have shifted
i>e
a>ə
u>o

Proto East Sirakh
Stops p p^h t t^h k k^h
Fricatives f s h
Approxiamates ʋ r l j
Nasals m n ŋ
Syllable structure is as before except C+w is C+ʋ
s>f/h
ts>s
ts^h>s
w>ʋ/f
ɬ>s/h
vowels have not changed

Still playing around with this a little, so open to feedback about how to make it more interesting / coherent / whatever.

m p ɓ f v ⱱ
n t t' s̪ z̪ ɾ̪
ts ts' s z l
ɲ ç ɻ
ŋ k k' x ɣ
ŋm kp kp'
ħ ʕ
ʔ h

i ʉ ə ɛ æ ɔ ɑ
i: u: ɨ: əː ɛː ɑː æː

Two tone opposition; contours can arise from vowel contracture.
Ultimate stress.
Underlying structure has all medial syllables CV; initial syllables can be plain V and final syllables can have a single coda consonant. On the surface deletion of vowels and certain consonants is common, leading to medial clusters, approximants, and contracted vowels.
Vowel harmony - roughly high/low.

Takarda wrote:Still playing around with this a little, so open to feedback about how to make it more interesting / coherent / whatever.

m p ɓ f v ⱱ
n t t' s̪ z̪ ɾ̪
ts ts' s z l
ɲ ç ɻ
ŋ k k' x ɣ
ŋm kp kp'
ħ ʕ
ʔ h

i ʉ ə ɛ æ ɔ ɑ
i: u: ɨ: əː ɛː ɑː æː

Two tone opposition; contours can arise from vowel contracture.
Ultimate stress.
Underlying structure has all medial syllables CV; initial syllables can be plain V and final syllables can have a single coda consonant. On the surface deletion of vowels and certain consonants is common, leading to medial clusters, approximants, and contracted vowels.
Vowel harmony - roughly high/low.

Im assuming ɓ is pʼ
also its not clear which vowels are high or low

Nymrīs wrote:Im assuming ɓ is pʼ

It's an attested sound change in Mayan.

That is, pʼ ɓ

a la Xibalba.

Αυτοβοτα wrote:

Nymrīs wrote:Im assuming ɓ is pʼ

It's an attested sound change in Mayan.

That is, pʼ ɓ

a la Xibalba.

I don't think that's the sound change, or at least it's not directly attested. Proto-Mayan is reconstructed with *ɓ as almost all the daughter languages reflect it as /ɓ/. It just patterned with the ejectives (a feature which remained or expanded in some languages, where at some POAs implosives and ejectives are positional allophones of each other). A few have independent /p'/, but as far as I've seen it contrasts with /ɓ/. I believe it's sometimes reconstructed with *ʛ as well, as while the sound is reflected in many languages as /q'/ or /k'/ there's little precedence for, and strong articulatory reason against, a spontaneous q' > ʛ or q' > ʛ̥ that would have to account for languages that have an implosive as the sole or common allophone of the uvular. So while the system of *ɓ *t' *ts' *tsj' *k' *ʛ~q' had to come about somehow, I don't think we're in a good position to give Mayan as an example of p' t' > ɓ t', as a change of ɓ ɗ > ɓ t' or a glottalized sound that was allophonically implosive in the onset and ejective in the coda seems to have a good amount of evidence behind it as well.

Inventory for Taksheyut:
/a ɑ: e ɛ: i ɪ: ɨ ə ə: o ɔ: u ʊ:/<a ā e ē i ī ı ǝ ǝ̄ o ō u ū>
/əj əw/<āi āu>
/m̥ m n̥ n ŋ/<xm m xn n ṉ>
/p pʶ b t tʶ d c ɟ k kʶ g q ʔ/<p ṗ b t ṭ d ḵ ḡ k ḳ g q ʔ>
/p͡ɸ b͡β t͡s/<f v c>
/s z ç ʝ x ɣ χ h/<s z š ž x ġ ḥ h>
/w ɹ̥ ɹ r rʶ j/<w xr r ṛ y>
/l̥ l ɬ/<xl l ḻ>

This is a reform for Gnoughish.

Consonants
/m mː n nː/ <m mm n nn>
/p pː b bː t tː d dː k kː g gː/ <p pp b bb t tt d dd k kk g gg>
/f fː θ s sː ʃ x h/ <f ff th s ss sh gh h>
/t͡s tt͡s t͡ʃ tt͡ʃ/ <z zz ch tch>
/w ʍ ɹ j/ <w wh wr~rr y>
/r/ <r>
/l lː/ <l ll>

Vowels
/i u/ <i u>
/e eː o oː/ <e ee o oo>
/ə/ <a~e>
/ɛ œ ɔ/ <ea oe eo>
/a ɶ/ <a oa>

Dipthongs:
/ai̯ au̯ oi̯ ou̯ iə̯/ <ai au oi ou ie~ia>
(/w j/ act as consonants and may be placed in front of any vowel, but not post vowel)

A bit of background: long ago I took a list of English words of Anglosaxon origin, because I wanted to give it an English aesthetic. From there I derived the phonology. The consonants were pretty much the same, but I made the vowels different. Now, I've changed the consonants, adding geminates and doing something different with the affricates. Vowel change are minimal: <eo> used to represent /jo/ but now represents /ɔ/, <ia> used to represent /ja/ but now represents /iə̯/ the same as <ie>. The digraphs <ay aw oy ow> have been removed.

Edit: I forgot to add /ə/

Edit II: /ŋ/ was also removed so <ng> is now a digraph that correponds to /ng/ pronounced [ŋg]

This is the current draft of the phonology of Szyalafa/Сιӕлӕфӕ/[sʲalaɸa]

There are presently 7 basic vowels. Three of them are front, three back, and one central. There are vowel harmony rules based on the same categories. The fronts are /a/, /i/, and /e̞/. The backs are slightly more irregular, being /ɯ/, /ʌ/, and /o̞/. The central vowel, which can be present in conjunction with any of the others, is /ə/. The reason I said basic, however, is that there are 28 vowels from a phonotactic standpoint, including Palatalized, Labialized, and Devoiced variants of each basic phoneme. Further, Schwa is actually rhotacized. Thus, the full set of central vowels- for example- are: /ɚ//ɚ̊//ʲɚ//ʷɚ/. Formerly there were also long variants for a total vowel count of 56, but when I noticed that minimal pairs could only be established for /a/ and /aː/ I removed that distinction. The Palatalized and Labialized variants could, of course, also be analyzed as /ɪ∅/ and /u∅/ diphthongs, but neither exists as an independent vowel. They also don't follow the consonant rules, meaning that /j/ and /w/ would less accurately represent the situation than this bastardization of the IPA does.

There are 26 radical consonants which are present in unmodified words. There are an additional 6 nonradical consonants which only appear as a result of mutations, ala Welsh. The radicals are /x//n//k//r//g//t//s//ʃ//ʒ//b//dz/tʃ//θ//ŋ//R//ð//z//ts//dʒ//ɸ//d//m/ /l//ŋ̊//m̥/ and /n̥/. /ɸ/ is unique since it is grammatically treated as both a stop and fricative. Certain sounds which are extremely rare- /ð/ and /θ/ primarily- may be phased out. The nonrads are /r̥//ks//bβ//gz//pɸ/ and/ʙ/. Of note are the four phonetically unique trills and the four unique liquids. The /l/ may appear occasionally as other non-trill liquid consonants allophonically, similarly to the Japanese R. Presently /k/ is the most common consonant across the language, whilst /θ/ is the least, being present in only a few loaned words. /t/ is probably the second most common and /ð/ the second least, although /ð/ is present in the Third Person Collective Pronouns and the Emphatic Article, making it somewhat common compared with /θ/.

A possible sisterlang of Vrkhazhian, but I do not know how naturalistic it is, especially with the distribution of the labialization. I just wanted a 'lang with labialized dental fricatives.

/a e i o u/ + length
/m n ŋʷ/
/p b t d k kʷ g gʷ q qʷ/
/θ θʷ ð ðʷ s z x ɣ h/
/j xʷ~ʍ ɣʷ~w/
/ɬ ɬʷ/
/tɬ/
/l r/

It's gotta be weird to have the only palatal approximant be lateral without a contrasting central /j/.

Vowels: Consonants: Strict CV except V allowed at the beginning of words. No long vowels. Realization of pre-nasalized vs. nasal sounds falls on an east-west dialectal axis. /ɑˤ/ is the sole remnant of plain vs. pharyngealized vowel harmony system. It causes the alveolar coronals to become dental, the velars become post-velar or uvular, and /h/ becomes [ħ]. /kᵝ/ is like kʷ but with lip spreading instead of rounding. Historical pharyngealization, palatalization, and debuccalization create consonant alteration in word forms, usually among the sibilants.

/p t k b d g f v s z S Z m n r l j w a e i o u/

/p t~ɾ k ʔ/ <p t~r k '>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ŋ>
/β s h/ <v s h>
/j w/ <y w>

/i e ɑ ɐ̙ o u/ <i e a ā o u>

(C)V(Q), where Q = [p, t, k, ʔ, n, ŋ, β, s, h]

Αυτοβοτα wrote:It's gotta be weird to have the only palatal approximant be lateral without a contrasting central /j/.

I think Italian has /ʎ/ without /j/, actually, although it does have a few words in which /i/ is a glide, which even if not phonemic fills the "hole" where /j/ should be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_p ... Consonants does include /j/, but Ive heard it stated here that it isnt a true phoneme for the above mentioned reason, anymore than /w/ is in Spanish. For that matter, Wikipedia also considers /w/ to be phonemic in Italian itself, even though I think the general view is that there is no /w/, just an opening diphthong /uo/.

SoapBubbles wrote:

Αυτοβοτα wrote:It's gotta be weird to have the only palatal approximant be lateral without a contrasting central /j/.

I think Italian has /ʎ/ without /j/, actually, although it does have a few words in which /i/ is a glide, which even if not phonemic fills the "hole" where /j/ should be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_p ... Consonants does include /j/, but Ive heard it stated here that it isnt a true phoneme for the above mentioned reason, anymore than /w/ is in Spanish. For that matter, Wikipedia also considers /w/ to be phonemic in Italian itself, even though I think the general view is that there is no /w/, just an opening diphthong /uo/.

The description of Italian I think is most accurate also analysed [j w] as unterlying /i u/. In the case of [j] this analysis isn't really problematic, [w] is a bit more complicated though. Its occurance isn't limited to the diphthong /uo/ and there are in fact minimal pairs between [w] and here (even though they are rare and the only one I can think of is cui ['kuj] "whom, which" vs qui ['kwi] "here"), but I guess this could be seen as an underlying difference in stress placement (/kú.i/ > ['kuj] /ku.í/ > ['kwi]). There's a lot of irregular stress placement going on in Italian anyway and it's not marked consistently in writing.

So yeah tl;dr I agree