zompist bboard

New protolang:
/p t k/
/n/
/s/
/l/
/i u e o a ä/
(C)V(C), no /ts/
Allophony:
M=mnŋ
n/m/_p
n/ŋ/k_
M/m/[puo]_
M/ŋ/_[kuo]
M/n/_[iea]

mèþru wrote:New protolang:
/p t k/
/n/
/s/
/l/
/i u e o a ä/
(C)V(C), no /ts/
Allophony:
M=mnŋ
n/m/_p
n/ŋ/k_
M/m/[puo]_
M/ŋ/_[kuo]
M/n/_[iea]

I like it. Hope we see more of this on the board.

One of the daughter languages is proto-language that revives an attempt to produce vowel root languages which use vowel roots equivalent in function to Semitic roots. I have a list of sound changes I like (really unlikely ones, though), but I need to generate a vocabulary so I can make coherent system out of it with heavy use of analogy. There are also a few other daughter languages. Nothing has a name yet though. I also worked a bit on the proto-language's culture. I think I'll open up a second kårroť scratchpad to work on it (the first was on C&C Quickies and I forgot to save it on my computer ).

Proto-Haethic:

Phonemic/Phonetic Inventory:
Consonants: /p pʲ b bʲ t tʲ d dʲ k kʲ kʷ g gʲ m n θ ð s z h j l w/
Vowels: /a aː e eː i o u uː/
Diphthongs: /ae ai au ei eo ie ou ua ue uo/ and /ja jaː je jeː ji jo ju juː/

Phonotactics:
Syllable: (C) + (m, n, s, z, h, l) + V + (V) + (C)
Syllable Restrictions:

• /m n s z h l/ are only allowed where they are shown.
• /θ ð j/ cannot cluster.
• /j/ cannot be in the coda.
• Palatalized and labialized stops cannot cluster.
• For the diphthongs /ja jaː je jeː ji jo ju juː/, the initial /j/ merges with a stop to form a palatalized stop. This does not happen with /kʷ/

Word Restrictions:

• Cannot start with /m n h/.
• Cannot be made entirely out of vowels unless the word is monosyllabic.

Timing: Syllable-timed (Spanish/French)
Stress: Always stress the first syllable, stress the last syllable if it ends in a consonant, otherwise stress the second-to-last syllable. Words with two syllables are never stressed. Monosyllabic words are stressed. The only exception is if it is a long vowel. Long vowels cannot be stressed.

Scratchpad here

No language for this phonology yet:

Phoneme inventory

Nasals: /m n/
Stops: /p t k/
Fricatives: /v s/
Vowels: /i u ɛ ɑ/

Syllable structure

-Maximum syllable structure is CCVC
-Clusters longer than two consonants are forbidden
-A syllable-initial cluster may not begin with a nasal
-Note, however, that nasal-initial clusters are permitted across syllable boundaries, e.g. /am.pa/, /an.sa/, or /an.na/
-A syllable-initial cluster may not consist of a geminate
-Note, however, that geminate clusters are permitted across syllable boundaries, e.g. /at.ta/, /av.va/, or /am.ma/
-The clusters /pm/ and /tn/ are forbidden

Allophony

-Nasals assimilate to the place of the following consonant.
-The voiceless obstruents /p t k s/ are voiced intervocalically and after nasal consonants
-The voiced obstruent /v/ is devoiced adjacent to voiceless consonants
-Adjacent vowels are separated by an epenthetic glottal stop
-Word-initial vowels are preceded by a glottal stop utterance-initially and after a word ending with a vowel

I don't think anyone tried a Slavic-like phonology with clicks:
/a e ẽ: i o õ: u/<a e ę i o ǫ u>

/m n nʲ/<m n nj>
/p b t tʲ d dʲ k kʲ g gʲ /<p b t tj d dj k kj g gj>
/! !ʲ ʞ ʞʲ/<! !j ʞ ʞj>
/f~ʍ v~w s z ʃ ʒ x xʲ/<f v s z sj zj x xj>
/t͡s d͡z t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/<c dz cj dzj>
/l lʲ r rʲ j/<l lj r rj j>

/f v/ before <a e ę i>, /ʍ w/ before <o ǫ u>

Word Order is SOV, though maybe thinking VSO.

Nǫsja dina tvo!ę.
/nõ:ʃa dʲina two!ʲẽ:/
n-ǫsj-a din-a tvo!-ę
3-die-PRES always-PRES something-NOM.AN.SG
Something always dies.

Tazifę ho nibajdza idzjahbej ikajvej.
/taʒifʲẽ: xo nʲibajd͡za id͡ʒaxbʲej ikajvʲej/
tazif-ę ho n-i-bajdz-a i-dzjahb-ej i-kajv-ej
world-NOM-AN.SG REL 3-PL-know-PRES PL-god-NOM.HUM PL-only-NOM.HUM
A world only the gods know.

Most of its clicks are derived from the clusters /tk dk tg dg kk gg/.

Protolang with a lot of Lardil in it:

/m n̪ n ɲ ŋ/ m ṉ n ñ ng (geminate /ŋː/ is written ngg)
/p t̪ t tʲ k ʔ/ p d t j k ʔ
/s̪ s ʃ h/ z s š h
/w l̪ l j/ w ł l y

/u o ɔ a ə ɛ e i/ u o ɔ a ə ɛ e i

(C)V(C)

Progressive POA assimilation of coronals to other coronals (/ɲ j/ count as coronal for the purposes of this process). This happens before the epenthetic vowels that break up illegal clusters are placed, which causes interesting results.

Something sounding like a Chinese minority language, to be spoken by a seafaring island culture:

/m n ȵ ŋ/
/ᵐb ⁿd/
/p t k kʷ (ʔ)/
/pʰ tʰ kʰ kʰʷ/
/ts tɕ/
/tsʰ tɕʰ/
/f s ɕ x~h xʷ~ʍ/
/v z ʑ/
/j w/
/l ȴ/
/r/

[ʔ] occurs word-initially and intervocalically, but this can also be analyzed as underlyingly a null onset. The sound does not occur in other contexts.

/i u ə ɛ ɔ a/
/i: u: ə: ɛ: ɔ: a:/
/ei ɘi ɘu oi ou ɐi ɐu/
/ɛ:i ə:i ə:u ɔ:i ɔ:u a:e a:o/

The short diphthongs are the same length as the short monophthongs while the long diphthongs are the same length as the long monophthongs.

Tones: High, mid, low on short syllables; high, mid, low, rising, falling, dipping on medium or long syllables

Legal syllables are CV(F) (or (C)V(F) if the glottal stop is not regarded as phonemic), where F = any of /m n ŋ p t k s x~h l r/. F consonants add a mora to the syllable. Syllables with a short vowel and no coda are one mora, syllables with a short vowel followed by a coda or a long vowel and no coda are two morae, and syllables with a long vowel followed by a coda are three morae. Most combinations of vowel and final consonant are allowed, but only monophthongs are allowed before liquid codas. Additionally, labialized and plain velars are not distinguished before close round vowels.

The aspiration on /kʰ kʰʷ/ is more often realized as velar affrication, thus [kx(ʰ) kx(ʰ)ʷ].
The two back fricatives vary freely between having full velar frication and having minimal constriction in that area.
The short vowels /ə ɛ ɔ a/ raise to /ɘ e o ɐ/ before coda obstruents.
The prenasalized stops /ᵐb ⁿd/ are distinguished from homorganic nasal + stop clusters in part by not adding a mora to the preceding syllable. They do not retain their nasal element after another consonant, but instead mutate final consonants in a preceding syllable as follows: /p t k s x~h l r/ > [m n ŋ z̃ ŋ n r̃], thus e.g. /pⁿd/ > [md].

The laterals have shifted to nasals in some accents: /l ȴ/ > /n ȵ/.
The rhotic is, depending on accent, realized as any of [r ɾ ɻ]; some speakers even merge it into /l/.

mˠ mʲ nˠ nʲ ŋˠ ŋʲ
pˠʰ pʲʰ t̪ˠʰ tʲʰ cʰ kʰ
bˠ bʲ d̪ˠ dʲ ɟ g
fˠ fʲ sˠ ʃ ç h
vʲ ɣ
rˠ rʲ lˠ lʲ
w j

ɪ iː ɛ eː a aː ɔ oː ʊ uː ə

Travis B. wrote:mˠ mʲ nˠ nʲ ŋˠ ŋʲ
pˠʰ pʲʰ t̪ˠʰ tʲʰ cʰ kʰ
bˠ bʲ d̪ˠ dʲ ɟ g
fˠ fʲ sˠ ʃ ç h
vʲ ɣ
rˠ rʲ lˠ lʲ
w j

ɪ iː ɛ eː a aː ɔ oː ʊ uː ə

Some Irish dialect?

@Chengjiang's language
It looks like Sinitic influenced Tibeto-Burman.

Chengjiang wrote:

Travis B. wrote:mˠ mʲ nˠ nʲ ŋˠ ŋʲ
pˠʰ pʲʰ t̪ˠʰ tʲʰ cʰ kʰ
bˠ bʲ d̪ˠ dʲ ɟ g
fˠ fʲ sˠ ʃ ç h
vʲ ɣ
rˠ rʲ lˠ lʲ
w j

ɪ iː ɛ eː a aː ɔ oː ʊ uː ə

Some Irish dialect?

Írsc, aka Irish Norse

Tsat'ol

Segments

/m n/ m n
/p t ts k q ʔ/ p t ts k q '
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ kʰ qʰ/ ph th tsh kh qh
/p' t' ts' k' q'/ p' t' ts' k' q'
/s χ h/ s r h
/l j w/ l y w

/i u e o a/ i u e o a

The aspirated and ejective stops can potentially be analyzed as underlying clusters of tenuis stop plus /h/ and /ʔ/ respectively, since not only do those clusters condense to those consonants but there is an /e/-infixing process affecting intervocalic consonant clusters whereby the fortis stops are "split" into a tenuis stop and the appropriate glottalic, e.g. /p'/ > /peʔ/ and /kʰ/ > /keh/. However, if the two types of fortis stop are analyzed thus, they are the only clusters that can occur as an onset or coda rather than intervocalically. Preaspirated stops do occur phonetically as well, but as they solely occur intervocalically there is no reason not to analyze them as clusters of /h/ plus a stop.

Phonetics

The tenuis stops may optionally be voiced when they are found between two sonorants, e.g. /kehˈpe/ = [kehˈpe] while /komˈpe/ = [komˈbe]; this is seldom heard in slower or measured speech.
The coronal nasal and stops are apico-alveolar, while the sibilants and lateral are lamino-alveolar.
/a/ is realized as [ɑ] when immediately preceding or following a uvular consonant. Without a neighboring uvular, /a/ is realized as [æ] before coronals and /j/, and [ä] otherwise. Thus /ˈqʰamaj/ = [ˈqʰɑmæj].
/u/ is realized as [ʉ] before coronals and /j/.
/e/ is realized as [ə] when unstressed, with the exception of the sequence /ej/ which is always [ej] even when unstressed.
In clusters where a velar and a uvular abut, they assimilate regressively in point of articulation, e.g. /χk'/ = [xk']. This takes precedence over uvulars' effects on vowels, e.g. /laχˈk'un/ = [läxˈk'ʉn], not *[lɑxˈk'ʉn].
Unlike in many languages, in standard Tsat'ol /n/ only assimilates to the apical/laminal articulation of a following coronal, not to the point of articulation of following consonants in general. A fully assimilated pronunciation is sometimes heard, but is stigmatized as "slurred" or "lazy".

Phonotactics

Tsat'ol syllables take the form CV(C). In an analysis where the aspirated and ejective stops are clusters, they take the form C(G)V(C)(G), where G is a glottal consonant. The contrastive glottal status of coda consonants is somewhat more limited, though: In clusters of two stops, the cluster has a single ejective or aspirated release as applicable. If one of the stops is tenuis, the resulting cluster has the release from the non-tenuis stop, thus /tʰp/ = [tpʰ]. If both are non-tenuis, the cluster has the release from the second stop, thus /tʰp'/ = [tp']. As noted above, clusters of a stop followed by a glottal consonant condense to the corresponding type of stop; this holds true even if the stop pre-condensation is already aspirated or ejective.
Relatedly, clusters of coronal stops followed by /s/ condense to the corresponding affricate, e.g. /t'/ + /s/ = /ts'/. Affricates followed by /s/ delete the /s/.
While most coda consonants can occur with any vowel, /j/ is not a legal coda after /i/ and /w/ is not a legal coda after /u/ or /o/. In both cases the glide can follow the vowel(s) in question intervocalically.
Although there are no vowel-initial words, there are vowel-initial morphemes. Where vowel-vowel hiatus would occur, /j/ is inserted after /i/, /w/ after /u/ or /o/, and /ʔ/ after /e/ or /a/.
The close vowels /i/ and /u/ cannot neighbor uvulars. Where they would, they are converted to /e/ and /o/ respectively, e.g. /mi/ + /q'aw/ = /meˈq'aw/.
Geminate consonants are illegal. Where a geminate would occur, it is simplified to a single consonant.

Prosody

Tsat'ol is a stress-timed language with contrastive, pitch- and length-based stress. By default, words are stressed before the final consonant of the root, whether or not a vowel follows, but some endings attract stress and a few roots are stressed on non-final syllables. Most words with two or more syllables preceding the stressed syllable have secondary stresses even numbers of syllables before it, e.g. /weketsiˈnaju/ = [wəˌkətsiˈnæju].

Pretty Mayan to my eyes.

Frislander wrote:Pretty Mayan to my eyes.

Oh, yes. I wasn't quite sure whether it sounded more Mayan or more Aymaran.

Chengjiang wrote:

Frislander wrote:Pretty Mayan to my eyes.

Oh, yes. I wasn't quite sure whether it sounded more Mayan or more Aymaran.

I think the think which says more Mayan to me is probably the five vowels and syllable structure more than anything else.

The second edition of this phonology: it's still Following that Guarani-Malagasy mix I was going for the first time. The language's name has changed from Kokanãi to O Kanã.

/p t t͡s ʈʳ k ʔ/ <p t c tr k ‘>
/ⁿb~m ⁿd~n ⁿd͡z~ɲ ⁿɖʳ~ɳ ⁿg~ŋ/ <b~m d~n j~nj/ñ dr~nr g~ng/
/s/ <s>
/w ɽ/ <w r>

/i e a o/ <i e a o> plus or minus nasality.

The prenasalised stops often lose the prenasalisation word-initially and become nasals before nasal vowels.

Syllable structure is (C)V(V), where any two vowels may occur adjacent to each other and either form a diphthong, a long vowel or remain in hiatus, with the latter only occurring when three or more vowels come together. When a nasal vowel comes into contact with an oral vowel the oral vowel is nasalised.

Some new conlang I've been working on since yesterday. Very exciting phonology. (sarcasm)

Rayyu phonology

Phonemic inventory
- Consonants
/p t k/
/b d g/
/m n ŋ/
/s/
/r/
/w j/

- Vowels
/i e a o u/


Allophony
- /r/ can be [ɾ] before a consonant, but otherwise is always [r] everywhere
- Germinate /rr/ is [ll]
- Words beginning phonemically in a vowel have a glottal stop begin their words phonetically (as in German)
- Word-final /t, k/ are pronounced unreleased [t̚, k̚]


Stress
- On the second-to-last vowel of the root
- There are few suffixes, so stress is always found on either the second-to-last or third-to-last syllable


Phonotactics
- Diphthongs: /ej aj oj uj aw/
- Syllable structure: (C)(w,j)V(C).
- No hiatuses are allowed (attested in Arabic)
- Can have things like /ej.a, aw.i/, but not */ij.a/ or /*owi/ as neither /ij/ nor /ow/ are allowed diphthongs (something like this is attested in Standard Arabic)
- All content words must have at least two syllables, i.e. minimal content word structure is VCV (attested in Xhosa)
- The consonant phonemes, from most common to least common: /n r k s j d m w t b g p ŋ/ (I probably won't be able to follow this exactly, but it gives you an idea)

- Initial consonants: any minus /ŋ/
- Initial clusters: any consonant (minus /ŋ, w, j/) + /w, j/
- Medial clusters:
- - intervocalic geminates, possibly followed by /w, j/, i.e. can have /ˈadda, ˈanna/ and /ˈaddwa, ˈannwa/
- - /r/ + any consonant (minus /w, j/), i.e. can have /ˈarpa, ˈarna, ˈarŋa/
- Final consonants: /t, k, m, n, s, r/
- Final clusters: none


Morphophonology
- Prefixes ending in a vowel before a stem beginning in a vowel get an epenthetic /n/ to avoid the hiatus: /i/ + /adda/ -> /inˈadda/
- Prefixes ending in /-n/ have the /n/ assimilate for POA if it's found before a stem beginning in /p, b, m/ or /k, g/: /an/ + /pawi/ -> /amˈpawi/
- Prefixes ending in /-n/ have the /n/ lengthen before a stem beginning in /w, j/: /an + waddu/ -> /an.ˈnwad.du/
- Prefixes ending in /-r/ before a stem beginning in /w, j/ get an epenthetic /a/: /ir + waddu/ -> /iraˈwaddu/
- Prefixes that have a surface form ending in /-k/ before a vowel-initial word trigger gemination before a consonant-initial stem: /nuk/ + /adda/ -> /nuˈkadda/, /nuk/ + /majja/ -> /numˈmajja/


Example words
- Content words
/ˈadda/, /ˈbuddu/, /ˈuppi/, /ˈpwarri/ [ˈpwalli], /ˈsabbjas/, /ˈjuttannya/, /ˈsawme/, /ˈkitinsur/, /ˈgjawwa/, /ˈwaddurik/, /anˈnwaddu/, /umuˈruko/, /kjanaˈsirra/
- Functional words
/ni/, /go/, /paw/, /terdi/, /buterdi/, /os/, /rit/




...I don't know what else to say. I'd say something about intonation but I know nothing about intonation.

/p t k/ <p t k>
/m n/ <m n>
/s ʃ x/ <s š h>
/w j/ <v j>
/l/ <l>
Aspiration as in English
Intervocalic voicing
/x/ is [h] before [ə ä]. It merges with /w/ in allophonic voicing.
/t n l/ become palatalised before /ʃ j i/
Consonants are rounded before /w/ (bilabials are already round)

/i u e o ə ä/ <i u e o ĕ a>
ä/æ/[jie]_
ä/ɒ/w_
ä/ɑ/_[kx]C
ä/ɑ/_i
ə/ɵ/w_

C=snʃmtljwpkx
1=kptsʃmnx
2=snʃmtlpkx
3=ntklmp
W=wj
S=ʃs
V=aouieə
CV
CV2
CV3S
1WV
1WV2
V
1WV3S
V2
V3S

sj/ʃ/_
ə/i/j_
No gemination

Here's a revised phonology for Mvithizu after I decided a) I wanted to vary its rhythm somewhat and b) I wanted to connect its family, Grasslands, to Krambic, a family from my old dead conworld.*

Nasals: /m n/ m n
Lenis stops/affricates: /b d dz ɡ/ b d dz g
Fortis stops/affricates: /p t ts k ʔ/ p t ts k '
Lenis fricatives: /v ð z ɣ/ v dh z gh
Fortis fricatives: /f θ s x/ f th s kh
Other: /w l r j/ w l r y

Vowels: /i u e a iː uː eː aː ai au/ i u e a ii uu ee aa ai au

Onsets are compulsory while codas are forbidden, unless the glottal stop is analyzed as a null onset. Onsets consist of a base consonant optionally preceded by a homorganic nasal (written m before labials and n otherwise) or followed by one of /w r j/. All consonants except /m n ʔ w j/ may be preceded by a homorganic nasal, all consonants except /ʔ w r j/ may be followed by /r/ (yes, this means /lr/ is a possible onset, although the theoretical */nlr/ doesn't seem to exist), and all consonants except /ʔ ɣ w j/ may be followed by either glide. While this means that phonetically Mvithizu has prenasalized consonants, since nearly every consonant can be prenasalized in this language I think it's more parsimonious to analyze them as clusters of a nasal and a following consonant rather than as unitary phonemes.

The exact difference between the fortis and lenis consonants varies between dialects. Although I've transcribed them with the characters for voiceless and voiced consonants for simplicity, for most speakers voicing is not the primary distinguishing feature. Fortis consonants are typically held for somewhat longer than lenis consonants, and for some speakers they are aspirated. Some but not all speakers partly or fully voice the lenis consonants. The overall situation resembles that of Ojibwe.

Phonetically, /d t ð θ/ are lamino-dental, and /n l r/ are apico-alveolar. /dz ts z s/ may be lamino-alveolar or apico-alveolar. The velars front significantly before /i/ and /j/, more so than is common in English, becoming more or less cardinal palatals; the velar stops tend to be at least slightly affricated in this environment. For some speakers the palatalized velars shift further into alveopalatals. The velar fricatives, when not fronted, vary in realization from velar through uvular and pharyngeal all the way to glottal. Although I've transcribed the vowels /i u e a/, each has a pretty wide range of realizations, dependent more on free variation than allophony: /i/ may be [i ɪ ɨ ɪ̈], /ɛ/ may be [e ɛ æ], /ɑ/ may be [ɑ ä ɐ ʌ], and /u/ may be any of [u ʉ ʊ o ɵ]. The long vowels have somewhat less variation, typically being [iː uː eː ɑː], although some speakers diphthongize /eː/ to [ei] or merge it into /iː/. It is also somewhat common to monophthongize the diphthongs /ai au/ to [eː oː]. Vowels are generally nasalized before a following prenasalized consonant. For many speakers, utterance- or even word-final short vowels devoice.

Mvithizu's prosody varies between dialects, but the "focal" dialect that the narrative will see has "impure" moraic timing, with syllables being more or less one or two morae depending on the vowel, but with nasals and glides optionally adding slightly to the length of syllables. It does not have contrastive stress or tone, although most commonly speakers will pronounce the first syllable of a word with a pitch-based stress and pronounce weaker secondary stresses on the third, fifth, and any subsequent odd-numbered syllables after that.

*For the curious, Krambic contains Ndasti farther back in the thread, as well as Akkham, its descendant. Of these, Ndasti makes more sense to line up chronologically with Mvithizu, since I intended Ndasti to be in use during its region's early Iron Age, which fits best into the current setting. Yes, this means I'll be creating Proto-Krambic-Grasslands the awkward way and having to rewrite a lot of stuff. Oh well.

B eqlmw nr

Sounds:

[b t d t͡ʃ d͡ʒ k g q f s ʃ m n ŋ r j w] b t d c j k g q f s x m n ng r y w
[æ~ɛ i~ɪ ɑ~ʌ~ɔ u~ʊ] e i a u

Syllables:

Asent'o

Consonant: Vowel Phonotactics : (C)VN (like japanese)
All consonant are allowed word initially, but it cannot be empty.
The only allowed consonant word finally is /n/.
All consonant except /ʔ/, /h/, and ejective consonant can be geminated intervocalically (but can be also short).
Additionally, all stops except /ʔ/ can form consonant cluster with the homorganic nasal, creating cluster like /mp mb mp' nt nd nt' ntɬ ndɮ ntɬ' ɲtɕ ɲdʑ ɲtɕ' ŋk ŋg ŋk' ŋʷkʷ ŋgʷ ŋʷkʷ'/

Orthography:
A consonant is geminated by repeating its first letter in the digraph, or if it consists of just one letter, that letter is reduplicated.

Nasal cluster <mp mb mp' nt nd nt' ntl ndl ntl' ntj ndj ntj' ngk ngg ngk' ngkw nggw ngkw'>

Why do you use <ŋ> in <ŋw> for the labio-velar nasal, but <ng> for the plain velar nasal?

Thanks, that's a typo. It should be <ngw>