zompist bboard

(Cross-posted from Conworlds.org)

Note: There is no way I can put everything here, this is a small sample. More details may be on the wiki site. Use the side bar on the right to navigate categories (or use links in articles, as with Wikipedia).

I'm sort of at a dead-end with my con-world, I'm not sure what aspects need to be expanded on, and I'm a little woried some of
the assumptions are too modern/simular to my culture. Feedback on these, or any other aspect is welcome.

A Brief Biological Description
Adult Salthans stand slightly shorter than an average human at about 5'6", though because of their bone structure they tend to slouch slightly foreword. Their skin is a scaly green. Salthans have a tail that protrudes from just above their buttocks, and extends to the ground. They sexually mature around the age of 10. Salthan males have a row of spikes on their heard that extend from the crown to the back of the head. Salthan females, being non-mammalian do not have mammary glands.

History
At the beginning Saltha was ruled by lords of various cities until the unification in 5920 KG. For almost 6000 years various kings ruled until the final upheaval that brought out the great revolution in 1 NG that ended the reign of kings forever, and ushered in the new Republic as it exists today.

Customs
Saltha was until recently a very isolated country, partly because of geography, and partially from a very isolationist government, until opening of the border shortly after the civil war and the end of the 100 years war.[1][2] Traditions and customs of Saltha did not have a chance to have any outside influence, and so instead were mostly formed from the religion of Santh, but also is influenced by the cold-blooded people's adoption to survive in the harsh hot climate of the desert.

Common Gestures

The traditional way of greeting is to raise the hands to mid-chest level parallel to the ground, palm upward and then give a sort of bobbing bow of the head, keeping the head upright and dripping the neck foreword and down. Showing of the palms as a greeting come from when an old and abandoned practice of branding swindlers or bandits on the palms as punishment was used. So showing ones palm is a way of saying "I am honest". The traditional spoken greeting is "Dika Esha" (Or Dika Eshi when addressing a female, or adding the -ny affix to either to make it plural.). This means literally "Greetings, friend".

This is fairly simple, except there is also tied in a more complex hierarchy system based on the two people’s standing to each other. The factors for this is the person’s age, and how many wives they have (if they are a male adult) their husband has (for women) or how many wives their father has (for children under marrying age). Having a wife is worth the same esteem of being ten years older. [Too complex for a culture ot actually have?]

Bows can range from a very slight bow all the way down to a 90 degree bow where the body is parallel to the ground, depending on the relative position of the two people. Bowing to children is not expected, though adults will sometimes give a small acknowledging bow back.

Sticking out ones tongue
A common thing that humans would generally find insulting is when a Salthan sticks out their tongue. To Salthans this gesture isn't insulting at all, and is very natural. It is a sign of submission and pacifism and can mean both “I mean you no harm" and "I will do as you say".

Rude Gestures
Putting ones hands out palm down, except maybe to a child is considered fairly rude, and is a patronizing gesture. Pointing with the index finger with the hand as a fist is seen as an obscene gesture to Salthans. Salrthans tend to gesture with all of the fingers extended.

Clothing
The nudity taboo in some ways in Saltha is much less strict than other countries. It is considered acceptable for young children under the age of ten to wear little or no clothing at all, generaly wearing as most a simple loin cloth when working or going to school and nothing when playing. This is a sort of reminder to them and a sign to others to keep doing whatever chore they are on, or to pay attention in school. There is a strong cultural taboo for children to speak to those so-clothed, because they may be distracting them from work they should be doing. To be allowed to be unclothed is to say "you are free to play". Because biologically a female's chest is the same as a male's, they never had a reason to develop a norm for females covering their chest, as in some human cultures, and so both sexes are just as likely to go bare-chested.

The traditional clothing of the Salthan people for adults is a long sleeved robe called a Hoshi (Ho-shee), and then the Skata, a sleeveless robe that fits over it. Finally it is tied with a Tosha (a belt with a triangle shape cut out.). Pants, an item brought in from the human culture are also somewhat popular, modified with a hole for a tail.

Both male and females who are married or betrothed to marry wear a sort of tasseled cloth over their belt.

Movement

This is less a cultural aspect so much as a biological need. Because Salthans are cold-blooded, it is necessary for them to regulate their blood temprature. It is very common for shops to have a indoor and outdoor counter that they move to between the day, and stalls have a roof that can be opened. Likewise, school houses are built in a way to let sunlight in, or an alternate area for teaching outdoors.


Bathing, Cleanliness and Purity

Salthans find cleanliness very important; in fact you could almost say it's an obsession. There are many practices and laws around this, most dating from the beginning of the culture at the beginning of the first cities between 2500 to 2000 KG.

Bathing in this culture is different than the way most others practice it from the human culture I am from. In this culture a Salthan never ever just gets in to the tub, but instead they thoroughly wash themselves first with soap, rinse completely and then get into the bath of hot water. This means that soap and grime is kept completely from the water.

In a home, it is customary to wash the feet of adult guests when they enter a home they are staying at. It is also a custom for all the children in a house to not just “wash up” before dinner but to take a bath. These two rituals comes form two main reasons. One is the practical one that the streets are dusty, and a traveler’s feet are going to be dusty, as it is with children who are playing out doors all day. The second is the religious aspect as part of the mandates of their religion called Santh which is practiced by a majority of Salthans.

Mixed sex bathing is very common, it is hardly considered shameful or embarrassing at all, though many public bath houses have changed to be segregated with the new contact with the human cultures there are quite a few that remain mixed sex, mostly in the smaller cities and villages. A whole family bathing together at home is even more common.

Public bath houses are very common, and there is always at least one, even in the smallest villages. They usually have a hot bath, a cold bath and a bath of hot sand. Some of the larger ones also have saunas.

Salthan philosphy and religion focuses on idea of purity. This is in the two aspects of exterior purity in ritual washings and physical punishment.

This takes place regularly at the end of every month in the Salthan calendar. Salthans see a regular physical discipline (corporal punishment) of children as part of this cleaning and as a means of teaching self-discipline as mandated in their holy book and is just as important, or ever more important than the outward cleaning. They see it a way of cleaning the inside, the soul from the wrongs they have committed, and restoring the Silse, or purifty. They see this Silase as an physical object, that can even be stolen with magic, or tricked out.

Some humans have given the undue impression of Salthans being cruel who wantonly beat their children and this is most definitely not the case. Like humans, the salthans see the posterior as the proper target for punishment, and it is considered thoroughly wrong to strike a child anywhere else.

The scheduled punishment for children is administered by a parent and consists of a few quick hard strikes on the bare bottom of their children with the hand or a switch. Adults administer a few strokes on their own backs. It is something they believe saves from or at least forestalls a harsher judgment from their God.

The focus focus on physical punishment also goes into the relm of criminal cases. Prison is never used as a punishment of a crime and instead the person works off their debt or for more violent crimes they are flogged.

Bathhouse and Bathing Customs
The city has many public bath houses around the city, and along the street are public fountains not very far apart from each other for cooling off. The fountains were basins raised on a wall about 10 feet tall, with an extended pump handle to release the water. These fountains were built when one of the first kings ruled thousands of years ago, and are still used today. It is a common sight to see adults pouring water over their hot heads or children showering in them to keep cool. All major cities have a number of bathhouses


The customs of bathing in the Saltha are a bit different than a simple shower or soaking in a tub like most humans do.

Many bathhouses are segregated by sex, though there are still a number of non-segregated bath houses. Many bath houses that are segergated by sex also have private baths for families. It is not uncommon for young children (under 10) to enter a changing room or bath area with a parent of the opposite sex.


Bathing Etiquette

In a bathhouse, you go in to changing room and undress and put your clothes on a shelf. In the next room is the big tub of hot water. It is considered polite for adults to cover their pubic area when walking around the bath house with a washcloth. You do not get in to the tub right away; instead you first go to one the side to one of the faucets and take soap and a washcloth and scrub thoroughly, then rinse off. This water is not heated.Then the bather gets in to the large hot tub.

Traditional Salthan City House

A Salthan City house is two stories Tall. On the first floor is a large room for eating and cooking. There is a large table, a stove and a sink. In the back is a door to the bathroom. The bathroom has a drain on the floor with a faucet over it. In Saltha, the bathing custom in Satha is to wash up first, and then get in to the hot tub and soak. Upstairs is one large room. Smaller rooms are made by hanging fabric walls. On the floor of each "room" are mats. Here there is a door leading out to the balcony that has a staircase leading to the roof.

Food, eating and Hospitality

Salthans pride themselves on their hospitality and generosity. It is part of Salthan custom to fulfill any wish of their guests by a guest, within the law and ethics of the culture. This may only be revoked by informing the guest before the guest steps over the threshold of the host's house. When a guest enters a home, the host (usually the lady of the house) gives the guest a small piece of bread to eat there. It is considered bad luck to enter a house with an empty stomach. The seating of a guest conveys a silent message of the attitude of the person. The place of most importance at the table is the one near wall opposite the door. The lady of the house always sits to the man of the houses left, with the guests sitting opposite as best as possible. Whoever is the head of the guests should sit opposite the man of the house If the host says "Sit by the door" Then his attitude is that of superiority, he will treat you politely, but you should not ask for any great favors. If he tells you to sit by the far wall, then he will sit by the door. This is a place of inferiority, he at the more dangerous place of the door. For families and close friends most time he will say "sit anywhere."


The Salthan Calendar

The Salthan calendar is divided into 15 months. The first 14 months each have 25 days and have 5 days in a week. They only have one weekend day a week, but have it more often with 73 weeks in a year.

The final month has the left over 15 days, meaning it has 3 weeks instead of 5. The first day of the year is the vernal equinox or first day of spring, around late march. Since it is different each year the Salthan calendar changes every year depending on when the Equinox is.

Trading and Gift Giving

Gift giving is a common way of restoring to balance friendships, extended family or business ties when one perceives the relation is breaking down. Generaly it is only rude to turn down a gift from a reletive, or some one one sees on a regular basis, (about average of more than once a month).

Societies

When a boy reaches coming of age, and become as Uagia (which means literally “neither great nor small”) it is mandatory that he become part of a society group. Which group the child joins is basically random, dependent only on which groups have fewer members. The child has no choice of what group he will join. These groups teach the boys the basics of combat and tactics, using a weapon called a Uagikathe that is padded on the end with an animal skin. These societies are much like warring factions, opposed to each other. Members of one group is allowed to attack those of another society that they meet, and do not even need to declare the attack and may ambush them. This means that a society member boy must be on guard at all times. Sometimes when two boys see each other on the street they will recognize the other as a member of an opposing society and have a sort of impromptu duel. The padded weapons reduce the risk of injury, though the occasional minor injury does occur.


Sports
Salthans enjoy numerous sports including foot racing and wrestling. One popular sport involves two teams that switch off between guarding a goal and trying to move a leather ball into the goal.

Counter-Culture Groups
Some young males, as a way of identifying themselves with a counter culture simular to the human "punk" culture trim the spikes on their heads down so they no longer have points, or even sometimes removing the spikes completly (There are no nerves in the spikes, so it doesn't hurt)


Preformance Arts

Asausa
Literaly means "dance, circle or cycle of life." and always contains elements that represents a birth or rebirth, a change or coming of age and death.

Sanagisany
Literal meaning is "all together". It is a comedic songs, most are legends about foolish people. The songs have parts or choruses that the audience joins in on.


Families
Often times a man is the head of multiple households. It is a sign of status to be head of more than one household that many poorer men cannot afford. On average a wife will bear around four children, as that is considered a desirable amount. However, it is not uncommon for a man who is “stuck in the middle” who can afford to raise more children, but cannot afford to support another household to have as many as six children.

There is no such thing as individual ownership. Items belong to everyone in the intersecting groups, even if one person is the only one who can really use the item (like a toy would only be used by a child).
A man who has multiple households may own partially the things in all the households he is head of, but he cannot transfer objects or even permit use of an object belonging to one household to the other since it is not wholly his, unless the entire household agrees to trade it to the other.


An object may only belong to one social or household group at a time, so an object may not belong to say two families at once. The one exception is if it designated as public and all can use it. Once an object is designated public it cannot be made to loose this status, except through a vote of a majority of the senate.


Ceremonies - The Seven Stages of Life

The Salthan has a series of rituals connected to each major step in life, which is divided in to seven parts.

Birth
A woman who is going to give birth is taken to a private location secretly. No male is told where she is, even her husband. Word is sent to her family immeditely after the birth, but she stays secluded for about two weeks. After which time she returns to her family, and a feast is prepared and the child is introduced to the family and local community.

Coming of Age/puberty
When a boy reaches his tenth birthday he's given the best presents. On that day his father takes him aside and tells him "secrets": about becoming a man, including about sex and general advice. He then takes part of a big private ceremony that only male relatives and friends may attend. This ceremony is important because it symbolizes the trials of a boy becoming a man. Before the ceremony, two large clay pools of water are prepared. One is filled with water that is left over night and reaches near freezing temperatures. The other is filled with hot water (about 100ºF). Taking part in this ceremony is also a good friend of the birthday boy, who will take part in the same things the birthday boy does in the ceremony. Beforehand, both boys are painted over their bodies in paint of different shapes and bright colors. These shapes include lines running up the legs from the inside of the foot to the hips. A line from the palm to the arm pit, a star of Santh on the forehead (though this may be left off of those few who do not follow the religion of Santh) and a hand print on the chest.

When the ceremony begins, they stand naked before the witnesses, a symbol of their state of birth. The birthday boy's father performs the ceremony. First he throws each into the nearly freezing cold water tub (symbolizing birth and awakening of the soul) and then quickly in to the hot tub (Which symbolizes trials to become a man.). Because of the quick exchange form very cold water, the hot water feels even hotter. Then he strikes the birthday boy ten times (one for each year of the child’s age) and the friend five times (the idea is, it's normally 15, but the friend is taking some of the punishment) across their bare backsides with a leather strap.

When this is done, both redress. he friend sits down, and the birthday boy chooses a name for himself, whichT is either a combination and his new name and his given name, or to replace his given name. Then they have a feast that everyone is invited to and they celebrate!

The birthday boy is now a Uagia (Literaly "between little and big") or Semi-Adult. They are no longer considered a child, and thought they do enjoy some new rights and responsibilities they are not yet given the full responsibility and rights of an adult.


Service
At the age of 15, a boy is required at least one month training with a weapon (usually short sword and bow.) He is also drilled and taught military discipline (following orders). Girls at 15 are taught first aid and how to shoot with a bow.

Marriage
While perhaps not every Sakthan will be married, 16 is considered the proper time to be married, and it is considered odd for a salthan to be not married by the time they are at least thirty. Most marriages are arranged by parents. A man who is betrothed to a woman will give her a peice of cloth that he puts on her belt, showing she is betrotheed.

The whole households of the bride and groom decide on what should be given to the couple to take with them, since things in a household is seen as belonging to the entire household. This is decided by unanamous vote.

At the wedding ceremony both hold lit candles and the priest washes them. They light a fire with their candles and burn a peiece of skin in the fire, symbolizing their unity for the rest of their lives and in the afterlife. Then each puts a bracelet on the other. These bracelets are identical, and there are no others like them.

Descent is traced through both the father and mother .Salthans beleive one's strength comes from the father's line and one's spirit from the mother's line. Spirit is considered a more important trait in women and strength in men, and so t is considered more imporatant to a man to trace his father's line and a women her mother's line,. At the same time, it is still considered important to keep track of both lines, as the secondary traits are still positive to have.

Adoption-Switching

It is considerred very bad to not be able tyo carry on both lines from at least one daughter and at least one son, keeping on the lineof strenght and line of spirit., It is common to have families who have only sons to "swap" a son with a familiy who has only daughters. They are adpoted by the other families, and considered of the other's bloodlines, so both famalies can carry on both lineages.

Adulthood
At twenty a man or woman may take an exam that qualifies him or her to serve in the senate if elected. He or she is given a series of hypothetical cases and is asked for his or her judgment on them. These cases are different every year. At this age, the young man or woman usually marries, and is considered accountable to the law.


Wisdom
Old age is seen as a blessing, and an achievement in acquiring wisdom. Starting at 60, the person shares a piece of wisdom at his birthday celebration. This is celebrated every year with a new wisdom learned until the person dies.

Death
Saltans believe that he bodies of the dead should be cremated. They believe their spirits go up to their god Santh in the smoke, and ties in with their beliefs in reincarnation for those who are good.

At the ceremony there is a telling of the life of the dead person before friends and family. But then another ceremony with only the person's closest friends and immediate family where a more honest "bitter truth" (Research Salthan term).
It is considered a grave insult to be burried, or to have a part of the body removed, especialy the head.

Honor

Salthans feel very strongly about honor. If they loose honor they feel they must right the wrong in way of resitution and then be purifyed.

Slavery

While legal in Saltha is very different than in other places. In Saltha, slavery is completely that of criminal punishment and restitution and paying of debts. it is also very heavily regulated how a slave may be treated. .

If a slave is treated too badly, he or she is set free. Also if a slave saves his or her master's life, that slave must be freed. Slavery is currently a very hot topic. There are two ways the government handles dept-slaves. One way is the government rents out the slave, and the proceeds go to the person who is owed the debt. When the debt is paid the slave is set free. The other way is the slave is given to work for the person who is owed for a set period of time depending on how much is owed.

Taboos
It is a taboo to speak the Santh version of the devil's name indoors (where it will get caught and keep in the house). It is also considered taboo to eat any reptile, since they believe they are a sort of distant relative.

The Ten
A group in the military, this ceremonial position dates back thousands of years to the time of the begining of recorded history. Each person represents a clan (Dating back to the tribal pre-king days). If one dies, then another takes their place. Though technically it is a military unit, they are never sent in to battle even in times of war, and live in the capital city. Sometimes the ten are used as a mediator though for disputes as an alternative to using courts.

Common Tools and weapons used by Salthans
The weapons used by Salthans are remarkably nonlethal in nature, stemming from what one might call a preference or a custom of war to take as many prisoners as possible. The practice of taking war criminals from within the country has much died out however, since the crowning of the first king under the unified kingdom and then the ending of the line of kings and the creation of the democratic senate system after the uprising in 3 KG.

Ditasek
One weapon they use is for war is a staff with four hooks on one end. This is used primarily for tripping and disarming opponents.

Uagikathe
As mentioned before this is a stick with a skin at the end that is propped with sticks. This is used in mock-combat by children.

Spear
A long spear used for combat with a small sharpened tip and a protrusion with two openings, used for trapping an enemies weapon to disarm them. The back end of it is a knob for bludgeoning.

Hunting Spear
A spear made for piercing and throwing, much simpler in design.

Nets
Used both for combat and hunting. Has weights on the corners.

Religion

The main religion is a semi-monotheistic religion centered around the god Santh. There are also lesser beings that are self-suficent but inferior to Santh. Followers of Santh do good works and purify themselves (partly through physical punishment) to obtain purity.

Lyke (Lie-Keh) - Dexterity/Agility
Lyke is a supernatural being that governs the wind. Though the religion of Santh is said to be a monothesitic religion, Lyke is portrayed as a nearly naked female Salthan with cloth flowing behind her on her arms and across her groin area.

Rela (Rel-La) - Power / Power
being of fire and power. He is portrayed as a male Salthan of rock with a cut out head filled with lava, like a volcano and carrying a sword.

Kai (Ka-ee) - Intelligence / Mind
being of knowledge, portrayed as a female Salthan with a large head and carrying a scroll and a sythe.

Kakela (Kak-el-lah) - Constitution / Stamina
being of strength. Portrayed as a stout stubby-bodied Salthan male of stone with a large shield.

Gikari/gikaria (Gee-kar-ee/Gee-kar-ee-ah)
Is a being with a duel nature of both male and female that changes at will (and including the physical form). The name in both form means "Beautiful". This being is incredibly beautiful, and is considered the patron deity of actors. Is said she/he is good at pretending and deceiving to attract people, particularly those of the opposite sex into bed with him/her.

Goverment
Saltha is represented by a .layered senate system. There is a senate representing each of the five districts of the country, as well as a higher court. The higher court sometimes calls apon members of the lower courts to serve in them for special cases. A term for a senator is always four years, and there are no term limits. Each senate (the five lower, and one upper) also has an elected leader which presides over the senate, and acts as the commander in a time of emergency or war. However, every action taken by the senate leader may be vetoed by the senate.

[1] Bartley, J. M. - "History of Saltha Vol 3. - War and Change
[2] Shahrivar, Mattin - "Understanding Saltha". Ten Terak

Anything I missed? Something not make sense? Is there an interesting aspect of the culture that might be a result of these customs? (Ex: Victorian idea of modesty and covering "limbs" of furniture) that perhaps I'm not considering? As I said, Feedback is very welcome!

A few things.

Gestures
You mention a gesture involving the palm. So is this like the "How" gesture from Western fiction?

Breasts
A very minor thing, you mentioned that the reason they don't care about toplessness in women is that they aren't mammals. Some mammals don't care either. The difference boils down to: are they primarily sexual objects or are they primarily used to feed infants? It does make me wonder, do they have anything biologically/socially similar to weening? For instance, some (all?) birds feed their young by mouth. Might then they be weened from that?

Marriage
You mention 16 as the ideal time for marriage. As they aren't human, my follow up has to be: when is their time of sexual maturity? You mentioned 10 as the time for coming-of-age but I couldn't be sure that this was cultural and not biological, at least for girls.

You mentioned marriage gifts being decided by the collective households. Is this unanimous consent or majority rule?

Birth
I presume that these are egg-layers. How long is the egg outside its mother before the egg hatches? How might that influence their birthing culture? Is that where the two weeks' seclusion comes from?

Gesture - I see I didn't really describe the gesture very well. The palm should be laid flat, paralel with the ground. This man apears to be trying to do the gesture, though as I said, the hands are usualy paralel with the ground, not at angles like in this picture.

Breasts - I've noticed that previously without thinking about it too much that I've been describing Saltha in terms of contrast of western culture (my culture). While you make a good point that some cultures do go topless, ours generaly still sees it as taboo. I guess that's the point I was trying to get across that the reason why western women (generaly) don't go topless doesn't exist for Salthans.

Still, I wonder if this is too ethno-centric to describe the culture in these terms, and the description is too weird/confusing anyway, and perhaps the whole "breasts" description should be scrapped.

Then again, it seems like the fact that Salthans of both genders are just as likely to go bare-chested, and why there is no reason why this would be unacceptable should be explained. Further suggestions on this is welcome. Should I just leave it? Change it to something more generic like "Because biologically a female's chest is the same as a male's, both sexes are just as likely to go bare-chested. "?

An alternite version of weening is intersting, though I'm not sure what that would be. I don't see Salthans feeding mouth-to-mouth, and I'm not sure what other types there would be (will research). I had originaly thought there was no simple "weening" at all, just moving from simple foods to complex foods as the child matures. (Actually on a side note, milk would be out since (at least most if not all) Salthans are lactose intollerant.).

Marriage - You're right, I havn't been very clear about sexual maturity. It is around 10, but it' not really stated explicitly anywhere (and should be)

Marriage gifts - Good question. I hadn't really thought of this. I think in this case probibly unanamous. I'm thinking the things will be things like goats from the family stock, or something like that.

Birth - Actually, Salthans give live births. I think I have that on the wiki, but forgot to include it here (I should have included a breif biological description).

Thanks for the questions, you gave me things to think about, and shown me areas that I didn't describe very well that can be improved. Keep them coming!

In a roundabout way your first answer restated may actually be enough. Lacking breasts, they never developed cultural norms toward them any more than humans developed norms related to their tails. Therefore, they do not distinguish male and female toplessness, both of which are allowed.

Granted, this may be an incredibly nitpicky distinction from "there is no difference so there is no problem", but it would distinguish them from human cultures which may see physical difference but just not care for whatever reason.

Granted, this may be an incredibly nitpicky distinction

..
Not at all, it seems like a good distinction to make to me.

Changed it to:

"Because biologically a female's chest is the same as a male's, they never had a reason to develop a norm for females covering their chest, as some human cultures, and so both sexes are just as likely to go bare-chested. "

Speaking of which, do they have tails or are they like us and don't have something so awesome?

I think that there's a missing word in your paragraph. The phrase "as some human cultures" just feels off. These both sound better to my ears:

Because biologically a female's chest is the same as a male's, they never had a reason to develop a norm for females covering their chest, as some human cultures [did], and so both sexes are just as likely to go bare-chested.

or

Because biologically a female's chest is the same as a male's, they never had a reason to develop a norm for females covering their chest, as [in] some human cultures, and so both sexes are just as likely to go bare-chested.

They do have tails (It's in the physical description).

I agree the sentence does seem offl. I like the second version. fixed.

BBWODP (Bump by way of double post)

Edit: Changes are underlined.

Finally got around to writing some mythology stories.

Story of creation of Salthans and how they got free will.
Long ago, an uncountable number days ago, the God Santh was bored, so he created creatures to crawl the earth such as reptiles and birds, and fish to swim in the waters. He was happy with this for a few our life times, but then was bored again. He wished to have something that could reason and speak.

Something that was more than animal, even though less than god. So, he called together the divines. He told them of his plan, and then seeing some lizards that crawled the earth he took a female and male and molded them. He stretched them out and made them stand on their two hind legs, the way he walked. Santh then suggested the divines give these new creatures a gift.

Lyke gave them the wind of their lungs so they could breathe.
Kai gave them intelligence, and so they could reason and learn.
Kakela gave them endurance to survive, so they could withstand the burning heat of the sun, and were not burned.
Rela gave them strength of their muscles.
Gikarai gave them beauty and a desire of men and women to be together.

However, there was one who was not invited. It was Hasashua (a lower divine, son of Lyke), who was banished from the sight of the divines for 300 years (which is really not so long for a immortal divine) because of the cruel tricks he played. Hasashua came anyway to the place of the Gods in the cloud palace. He said "Will give them the best gift of all.".
Santh was intrigued by this boast. "What can you give, trickster, that is better than that of life, banished son?" he asked.
Hasashua smiled, and presented a bottle of wine made from Santh's vineyards that Hasashua had stolen. Before any could stop him, he poured a drop down the throat of the newly made male. "I give free will." he said. "the very best of all. Now they shall know how to choose, and in their choice what they will, and in that choice they may choose the bad over good."

Rela seized Hasashua, and in his other hand, brought up the whip in his hand. He said to Santh, the chief God "Sire, he has disobeyed the banishment, has made a mockery of you, lord and has stolen and given what was not his. Shall I give him his due punishment?" Santha nodded his aproval, and Hasashua was punished and again banished.

The Great Flood (Note: On reviewing, I'm not sure I like this story, I might change it)
Santh commanded Shalesanchi to flood the world, killing everyone, but she had pity on a good man named Nalsisa. She secretly had her mother Lyke send a bird to give him a message to warn him. He built a great boat, and put different animals on it. rela saw what salesanchi had done. He commanded the volcanos to boil the water, and shoot great spouts of water, but Shalesanchi protected Nalsisa and his family. This angered Rela all the more, and so he want to Santh. "Do you know what Lyke and her daughter have done? They have plotted against you to save mankind." Santh was angered by this. He commanded Lyke and her daughter to be brought there. "Forgive me, great and mighty Santh, god of all. I saw a good man, who I had been warching and seeing he was good did not want him and his family to perish. "
"You tryed to turn against my will, and for that you will be punished." Santh commanded a whip to brought forth, and for Lyke to beat her daughter there before everyone. He then commanded Lyke to send a storm and Rel to send lighting, but not to sink the ship yet. Santh said "We will test and see if this man is good. If so, he and his family would be spared. If not, you shall sink the man's ship."

When the man saw the storm he prayed first to Santh "Oh great Santh, god of all, save me" and then prayed to Lyke "Lady of the wind, I pray you calm the storm, if it not be against Santh's will".

Santh was pleased. "He rightly gives due to the greater first.". Santh held up his hand, and Lyke stopped the wind, and Rel held back his lightning. The man gave thanks to Santh first and then to Lyke. When the water subsidded he, his family and the animals disembarked and he built a new home.

How the Trickster got the best of the Shapeshifter
Long ago, an uncountable number days ago, Nalsiskitei was in his desert cave. It was hungry, since there were very few travelers in those days. Just then Nalsiskitei saw someone coming. It was Hasashua. "Ah" said Nalsiskitei. "Not only will I get a great feast, but I will get my revenge on Hasashua for his tricks. "
With that Nalsiskitei transformed himself into a beautiful female.

"Hello stranger" Nalsiskite said. "You must be tired from your journey, please share a drink with me at my tent.". Hasasuha saw the beautiful girl and was fooled by Nalsiskitei's trick, and followed her to her tent. However, on the way Hasashua noticed smoke coming off of where the woman walked and realized it was Nalsiskite. In the tent, Nalsiskite moved foreword, in a way to seduce him, but Hasasuha said "I am so thirsty, having come such a long way, could you first bring me some water?" Nalsiskite brought the water, reaching as far as possible to hand the cup, and backing away. Quickly Hasasuha splashied the water on her feet (the source of the fire that she burns from) and with a scream it disapeared.

Story of creation of Salthans and how they got free will.
Long ago, an uncountable number days ago, the God Santh was bored, so he created creatures to crawl the earth such as reptiles and birds and fish. He was happy with this for a while, but then was bored again. He wished to have something that could reason and speak.


Who or what created the Earth? I know that this is not necessary for this story, but it's still out there.
You use crawl for fish. Is this from their language, in that crawl and swim are the same word?
Is Santh a child? He seems to lose interest quickly.

Something that was more than animal, even though less than god. So, he called together the divines. He told them of his plan, and then seeing some lizards that crawled the earth he took a female and male and molded them. He stretched them out and made them stand on their two hind legs, the way he walked. Santh then suggested the divines give these new creatures a gift.

Was Santh's own gift form?

Lyke gave them the wind of their lungs so they could breathe.

If Lyle is required to give things breath, how do other animals breath?

Kai gave them intelligence, and so they could reason to a greater missing word than before.
Kakela gave them endurance to survive, so they could withstand the burning heat of the sun, and were
not missing word.

So do other animals not have this endurance or do they just have more?

Rela gave them strength of their muscles.
Gikarai gave them beauty and a desire of men and women to be together.

Other animals mate. Is this to be together with marriage rituals and so forth? Meta: Am I misunderstanding the purpose here? Is it not that Santh couldn't have just given them all of these things to them himself but that he wanted it to be a group effort because lizardmen are special?

However, there was one who was not invited. It was Hasashua (a lower divine, son of Lyke), who was banished from the sight of the divines for 300 years (which is really not so long for a imortal divine) because of the cruel tricks he played. Hasashua came anyway to the place of the Gods in the cloud palace. He said "Will give them the best gift of all.".
I believe immortal is misspelled. Haashua's quote needs a pronoun.

Santh was intrigued by this boast. "What can you give, trickster, that is better than that of life, banished son?" he asked.
Hasashua smiled, and presented a bottle of wine made from Santh's vineyards that Hasashua had stolen. Before any could stop him, he poured a drop down the throat of the newly made male. "I give free will." he said. "the very best of all. Now they shall know how to choose, and in their choice what they will, and in that choice they may choose the bad over good."

With free will then, is the only thing that seperates the people from the gods lifespan and nifty powers? Also, do the gods look like lizards or are they giant floating Mah Jong tiles or something?

Rela seized Hasashua, and in his other hand, brought up the whip in his hand. He said to Santh, the chief God "Sire, he has disobeyed the banishment, has made a mockery of you, lord and has stolen and given what was not his. Shall I give him his due punishment?" Santha nodded his aproval, and Hasashua was punished and again banished.

If the trickster's response to his last ban was to just wander in uninvited, it doesn't seem that banishment is very effective punishment.

Questions!

"Who or what created the Earth?"
Santh was the creator. I should write eventually the first creation itself one of these days.

"You use crawl for fish"
oops.

"Is Santh a child? He seems to lose interest quickly."
I didn't really specifcy how much time. I'm going to make it a few salthan/human lifetimes at least.

"Was Santh's own gift form?"
Yes. Basicly I was thinking Santh already made his contribution.

"If Lyle is required to give things breath, how do other animals breath?"
Hmm. good point. It would be kind of dumb to create something that wasn't alive. Also, I'm not sure I like Santh being so dependent on a lower being. Maybe she gives them speech instead? I'll have to think about this some more.

Oops. Mistakes in the Kakel and Kai lines. Fixing.

"So do other animals not have this endurance or do they just have more?"
I guess it's more.

"Other animals mate. Is this to be together with marriage rituals and so forth? Meta: Am I misunderstanding the purpose here? Is it not that Santh couldn't have just given them all of these things to them himself but that he wanted it to be a group effort because lizardmen are special?"
Good question. I guess I wasn't thinking about that. I was trying to fit in the gifts with what the deity's were like, and I wasn't sure what the god of seduction/charm/fertility would give. Maybe it is a degree of being moreso than with animals. Maybe what he gives is more a lsting marriage (and the rituals), and animals in this world don't mate for life. (I'm not sure how realistic this would be to have ALL in a world be this way, since many in or world seem to).

"With free will then, is the only thing that seperates the people from the gods lifespan and nifty powers?"
Yes. the gods in Salthan mythology is much like the greek/roman ones.

"Also, do the gods look like lizards or are they giant floating Mah Jong tiles or something?"
They look like Salthans, or at least mostly like them. Some are somewhat deformed versions (little squat guys with heads like a volcano etc.).

"If the trickster's response to his last ban was to just wander in uninvited, it doesn't seem that banishment is very effective punishment."
Hmm. true. Maybe I should show how he tricked his way in (outsmarted the doorguard). He was flogged, and obviously would expect another one if he showed up again, so probibly the second time is more effective in keeping him out.

Thanks!

For what it's worth, I recall reading somewhere perhaps Naked Ape or in something of that nature, that animals which appear to mate for life actually don't. They're just less open with the 'cheating'. Of course, I'm no biologist.

BBWOP again. as sugested by Torco I've added some stuff on economic structure. I tried to answer as many of Torco's questions as I could. I fear this system is somewhat bland, but I'm hesitant to just use a European Feudal system. I suppose really it is that way anyway, albeit a very simple one (trading protection for taxes). The modern version is kind of like what it was like in ancient Greece.

Trades/Occupations
As with many countries, the occupations of the peoples is widely varied. Among the different occupations are farmers, stone workers, city guards, soldiers, jewelers, blacksmiths, wine makers, merchants and many others.

Classes
During the time of kings, the class structure was very separate into four classes:
1.the King
2.Nobility (both Hereditary and those who could afford a Gilsnasak ("raised name")
3Soldier Commanders
4.Skilled Craftsmen, Merchants and common soldiers
5.Free men
6.Slaves (those in debt-servatude or slaves to the state ("gilkakulsany') as criminal prisoners.

At the time of the revolution, there was a major shift with the end of the monarchy and the rise of the Salthan Republic. The nobility class (as well as obviously the king) were abolished. What this meant was economic factors (wealth) was the only means of difference between people socially in terms of the goods and services they could buy. It was illegal, at a penalty of a fine to proclaim a title of nobility, or to show favor to any who had or claim a title of nobility. Any class excecpt for the slave class were granted the right to vote in elections.

With a rapid influx of visitors from other nations, there also suddenly appeared a new class between Free men and Skilled Craftsmen, these were the skilled craftsmen from other countries. They could not vote, but found Saltha a hospitable place to ply their trades.

Edit: Added a link to the main page of the wiki.

BBWOP. I've been making quite a few edits since my last post here tothe wiki. Feedback on any areas here, or stuff on the wiki is welcome. (Especially since I'm once again stuck on what to write next). The thing about the focus is something that's just recently occurred to me, but I think it's pretty interesting and fits really well.

An explination on Salthan Law and jusrtice

Focus
Salthan law centers not on punishment nor rehabilitation, but of restoring what is lost by payment from the perpetrator to the victim. Therefore, Usually Salthans see cases where there is no need to pay a person (or their surviving family) as not crimes. That is not to say there is not a punitive element to the justice system, but it is not the primary focus.

Trials
Since the revolution, prisoners have been given many new rights expressed in the constitution. Included are the right to a fair trial and the right to not be forced to bring testimony against oneself. [1]

A trial is overseen by a panel of judges. Guilt or innocence is only established through unanimous vote.

Punishment
Jail is never used as a form of punishment in Saltha, and is only used when needed to make sure a convicted criminal completes their sentences in the form of forced labor, if there is an unpayable fine and they are considered a flight risk. most of the times a person convicted of a crime must pay a fine, and work in hard labor to pay a fine they cannot pay. A portion of the fine goes to the victem, and the rest to the government, partially to pay for court costs. In cases of violent crimes a person may be flogged, though there are strong limits on the number of strokes a person may be hit, also depending on their age (those between 15-20) and gender.

Those under the age of 10 may be brought to trials, but it is the parents responsibility to pay any fines or receive any punishments for the child. However, in severe or repeated cases, the government may themselves punish a child with a public switching on the bared bottom (Note: nudity of children under the age of 10 is not seen as taboo, since children are basically thought of as not knowing any better).

[1] Constitution of Saltha, Article 5, Section 2.

Oy, I'm really digging this conworld. It's very well-developed; I like the focus you have on common people. Definitely going to be reading through every post you've got!

Very cool. I'll have to write up a similar summary for my conculture.

Foolster41 wrote:Some young males, as a way of identifying themselves with a counter culture simular to the human "punk" culture trim the spikes on their heads down so they no longer have points, or even sometimes removing the spikes completly (There are no nerves in the spikes, so it doesn't hurt)

Do the spikes eventually grow back? Or is cutting them off as an idealistic youngster something more mature Salthans look back on with regret, like an 80 year old grandfather with obscene tattoos?

(Mind you, I think an 80 year old grandfather with obscene tattoos would be awesome )

Rainlander & Purplewurm: Thanks for your kind words.

rainlander: That's a good question. I'm not sure about that. I kind of like the idea of it being at least semi-perminent, especially since tatoos would be pretty impractical for Salthans, and this would be a good stand-in thing for an older Salthan to have as a regret. Maybe they do grow back, but really slowely, like maybe half a year at the very quickest.

Maybe they grow back, but a bit deformed and not quite as big? Like a gecko shedding it's tail.

So, someone on the conworlds board pointed out some issues with my legal system. Basically they said this system would cause abuses because they would be motivated to, for example claim someone pushed them if they fell down stairs, causing them to pay them., and become effectively their slave to pay them back. I'm interested in having a system that is somewhat different than the norm, and I thought something like this could be interesting, though I'm not sure how to cure this problem of potential abuse.

Here's the original topic (so you can see what he's saying more clearly): http://conworlds.com/cwbb/viewtopic.php?p=19723#19723

i tried to read through that but could never quite work out what the problem was. blake seems to be assuming that the court will care at all about poor people's complaints against each other and so poor people, rather than fucking each over in the usual ways poor people do, will seek legal remedies. presumably your lizards are not liberals, so why would it upset them that the complaints of the poor don't get treated the same as those of people with something to lose? that the rich could enslave people via the courts by framing them makes it all the better.
of course, if they are liberals then of course any legal system where people can be enslaved on a pretext is profoundly and obviously illiberal, and so you are asking for the impossible.

NE: i also like Blake's idea that the rich wouldn't bother to enslave each other on pretexts. is he still a terrible libertarian?

Foolster are you saying that you want to create a legal system where abuse is impossible??

In general Slathans would want justice to be the same for rich or poor (they just had a system of numerous abuses from the powerful over the weak), and either way not sent a person to prison for the wrong reason.

I guess the main problem is revealed in what you said about pretext. I guess I was presuming that theree would be evidence at least most of the time, and the system would fairely convict people who did wrong, but being a midevil society there's no DNA or even fingerprinting evidence, so proof would be very hard. If this were a modern era world, then I don't think it would be much of a problem since they'd have (presumably) modern crime scene technology and techniques.

@patiku: Of couse not, any system (even ours) is going to have advantages and disavatanges to a degree, but I don't want a system that would be completely abused.

Bumppost

I've been thinking about this again, though I feel a bit stuck on what to write next. The culture feels a bit one-note to me.