How to design a non-European phonology

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äreo
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by äreo »

hmm, let's try Ksso:
1. absence of phonemic opposition velar/uvular dialectal realisation of glottal stop as uvular
2. phonemic voicing oppositions (/p/ vs. /b/ etc.) as the only distinctions between sounds with the same POA and MOA (not even voicing opposition is present)
3. initial consonant clusters of the type "stop+sonorant" allowed such sequences occur, but the sonorants are syllabic
4. no initial velar nasal no phonemic velar nasal, period
5. a wide variety of allowable clusters that, except for those that contain a sibilant and a stop, all adhere to the sonority hierarchy
6. only pulmonic consonants
7. no phonation or secondary articulation contrasts on vowels diachronically the syllabic fricatives are voiceless vowels, and in some dialects are still realised as such
8. three degrees of vowel height (minimum inventory i e a o u)
9. lack of lateral fricatives and affricates
a. two series of coronals one
b. lack of a tone or register system pitch accent, which has developed into a kind of register system in one dialect
c. at least two of each of the following type of consonant: fricative, nasal, liquid, semivowel two fricatives (three in some dialects), two nasals, one liquid, and no phonemic semivowels

Ascima mresa óscsma sáca psta numar cemea.
Cemea tae neasc ctá ms co ísbas Ascima.
Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho.

zyxw59
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by zyxw59 »

1. absence of phonemic opposition velar/uvular
2. phonemic voicing oppositions (/p/ vs. /b/ etc.) as the only distinctions between sounds with the same POA and MOA
3. initial consonant clusters of the type "stop+sonorant" allowed
4. no initial velar nasal
5. a wide variety of allowable clusters that, except for those that contain a sibilant and a stop, all adhere to the sonority hierarchy
6. only pulmonic consonants
7. no phonation or secondary articulation contrasts on vowels
8. three degrees of vowel height (minimum inventory i e a o u)
9. lack of lateral fricatives and affricates
a. two series of coronals
b. lack of a tone or register system
c. at least two of each of the following type of consonant: fricative, nasal, liquid, semivowel

Ľʌbʌ:
123-/678-/b/ = 7+3
5: Don't all adhere to sonority hierarchy.
a: Three series of coronals: /θ ð/, /s z t d n ɹ ɹʷ l lʷ/, and /ʃ ʒ/. Not sure if the first and last count as series, though.
c: No semivowels

Habw
1----6789/b/ = 6+2
a: Not phonemically ([ʃ ð tʃ] are allophones of [θ ð tθ])
c: No fricatives phonemically (voiceless fricatives are allophones of aspirated plosives, and voiced fricatives are allophones of voiced plosives) , and no semivowels.

Ulan
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Ulan »

chuj
(true, false, partially true
1 -- there is a /c/ /k/ distinction, and /q/ is a dialectal allophone but in this regard chuj is SAE
2-- stops and affricates are distinguished by aspiration, but in many dialects unaspirated stops end up voiced intervocally
3 the only clusters allowed are some liquids meeting stops
4 chuj lacks a velar nasal, but in the dialects where it shows up this is allowed
5 /pl/ is one of the only clusters that doesn't end up just becoming a palatalized consonate
6 I could have ejectives, but I dunno I feel that it would clash with everything
7there is some palatalization, and nasalized vowels, kinda want to add in a creaky voice at the moment
8 almost all dialects lack /o/, and in some dialects that really like to merge things there are only high and low vowels
9 /K/ exists and is widespread in the literary standard and contrasts with /l/, but some dialects merge the two as /K/ or /l/
a unaspirated/aspirated coronal stops and affricates, but dosnt quite apply to everything
b I have been meaning to add in tone as a means of stress, but I havnt yet implemented it
c. chuj lacks /w N/ or any rhotic, so I guess this does not apply



1. +.5 (dialectal/allophonic) glottal stop
2. +.5 (the aspiration distinction ends up intervocally as a voicing one in some dialects, so I am going .5 on this
3. +1
4. 0
5. +1 aspirated stop set vs unaspirated
6. 0
7. .5 dialectally with some heavy lenition this is the case
8.0
9. 0 If I include affricates they are almost equal
10. 0
11.1
12.0 chuj lacks any rhotics
13. 0 /K/ floats around chuj quite a bit
14. 0
15. .5
16. +1
17. +1
18.0
19. .5 allophonic glottal stop
20. +1
21. 0
22. 0
23. +1
24.+1
25.0
26.0 long and nasal vowel distinction
27 .5
28. .5
29. .5 two tone
30. 0
31. .5 only dialectally
32. .5 only dialectally
34. 0
35. 0
36 0
37. 0
38. 0
39. 0
40. +1
41. 0
42. 0
43. 0
44.+1
45. +1
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. +.5 including affricates
48. +1
49. +1
50. +1
51. 0
52. +1
53. 0
54. 0
55. +1

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. +5
S2. +5
S3. 0
S4. +5 if you include tone
S5.2.5 glottal stop
S6. 0
S7. 0
S8. 0
S9. +5

so chuj is 43% SAE? sounds about right
Last edited by Ulan on Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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finlay
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by finlay »

Nortaneous wrote:Since I'm too tired to write the next post tonight, I guess I can do this for my temporarily shelved conlangs also...

Gadaye: 12-4-6-8-ab-: 6+1
4: no phonemic nasals, but [N] appears as an allophone of /g/ before nasal vowels

Hathe: 1--4-6-89a--: 4+2
6: are glottal stops counted as pulmonic?
yep.[/quote]
hmm, let's try Ksso:
1. absence of phonemic opposition velar/uvular dialectal realisation of glottal stop as uvular
2. phonemic voicing oppositions (/p/ vs. /b/ etc.) as the only distinctions between sounds with the same POA and MOA (not even voicing opposition is present)
3. initial consonant clusters of the type "stop+sonorant" allowed such sequences occur, but the sonorants are syllabic
4. no initial velar nasal no phonemic velar nasal, period
5. a wide variety of allowable clusters that, except for those that contain a sibilant and a stop, all adhere to the sonority hierarchy
6. only pulmonic consonants
7. no phonation or secondary articulation contrasts on vowels diachronically the syllabic fricatives are voiceless vowels, and in some dialects are still realised as such
8. three degrees of vowel height (minimum inventory i e a o u)
9. lack of lateral fricatives and affricates
a. two series of coronals one
b. lack of a tone or register system pitch accent, which has developed into a kind of register system in one dialect
c. at least two of each of the following type of consonant: fricative, nasal, liquid, semivowel two fricatives (three in some dialects), two nasals, one liquid, and no phonemic semivowels
fixed. you put too many blues where your answer was actually one way or the other red or green. it seems to me rather obvious that if you have no /ŋ/ you will not have initial /ŋ/, and that's essentially how I answered it, because currently all my langs that have /ŋ/ have initial /ŋ/. In terms of European languages, not all of them even have /ŋ/ and the ones that do don't have initial /ŋ/.

For #2, the question is asking whether you have a voicing opposition as well as whether you only have a voicing opposition. You would probably put blue if there's only one such contrast in the language or something. In #3, if they're syllabic they're not consonant clusters. For #C, it's asking if your language satisfies all the conditions.

As for the ones that rely on the dialects, I have to kind of wonder if it would be better to make a separate list for the standard phonology and the dialectal phonology – this is what I did 7 times over, essentially, because my dialects for Sentalian are reasonably divergent.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Chuma »

Nortaneous wrote:
Chuma wrote:Another thing - I think someone said that a typical European thing is to have more fricatives than stops. How about it?
Probably. I'm not sure if there's even a way to pull off a voicing distinction in fricatives without seeming European, but it can probably be done somehow, I guess.
Is it really that bad? Looking at WALS, voicing distinction in fricatives seems to be fairly common in other parts of the world, particularly Africa.

But I was mainly thinking about having more POA for fricatives than for stops (like how English has th vs. s). Isn't that also a European thing?

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äreo
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by äreo »

As for the ones that rely on the dialects, I have to kind of wonder if it would be better to make a separate list for the standard phonology and the dialectal phonology – this is what I did 7 times over, essentially, because my dialects for Sentalian are reasonably divergent.
Only one of them relies fully on dialectal variation, and my dialects aren't quite fleshed out yet anyway.

Ascima mresa óscsma sáca psta numar cemea.
Cemea tae neasc ctá ms co ísbas Ascima.
Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Herr Dunkel »

Nortaneous wrote:
Darkgamma wrote:Truth, but it does quite seem that it's rather /baχ/ than /bax/ since /χ/ occurs in more forms (/x/ occurs with /a/ and /o/, /χ/ with all of the other vowels). Btw the underlyinɡ form of <ch> is actually /ç/
Technically, yes, but I call it /x/ because that's easier to type.
so it's contrasting palatals vs. velars, which is still (almost?) never seen in SAE.
English: pair, tear, chair, care

Although in most SAE langs, both nat and con, the 'palatal' series usually consists of postalveolar sibilants.
German has alveolar, postalveolar and palatal/velar/uvular

I'ma test my own:

* absence of phonemic opposition velar/uvular
* phonemic voicing oppositions (/p/ vs. /b/ etc.) as the only distinctions between sounds with the same POA and MOA - (It's more of a fortis/lenis distinction than true voicing)
* initial consonant clusters of the type "stop+sonorant" allowed
* no initial velar nasal
* a wide variety of allowable clusters that, except for those that contain a sibilant and a stop, all adhere to the sonority hierarchy - (Wider)
* only pulmonic consonants
* no phonation or secondary articulation contrasts on vowels
* at least three degrees of vowel height (minimum inventory i e a o u)
* lack of lateral fricatives and affricates
* two series of coronals
* lack of a tone or register system
* at least two of each of the following type of consonant: fricative, nasal, liquid, semivowel

But:

A big gap in the consonant inventory: /t d k ʔ s z ʃ ʒ x r m n/ (lack of any labials except a /m/)
Geminate clusters /tt kk mm nn ' ' dd rr ss zz ʃʃ ʒʒ xx/
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Salmoneus »

I think we can do better. How about: [NB. some of these aren't common in european languages, but are far LESS common in non-european languages. For instance, having front rounded vowels is pretty european, even though most european languages don't have them - it's just that if it's got front rounded vowels, it's more likely to be european than otherwise, because they're even MORE rare outside europe].

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruants
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]


Well, that was a little longer than I was expecting. I think it might be helpful if people could answer the above for some natlangs that they know about, both European and not, and give the final score.

NB. if it's not clear, no more than one point per question except for the Special Questions, and no more than half a point if the main criterion is met [ie you can't get two half marks for one question, and if you get full marks you can't add a half mark as well]. So marks out of 100.
____________________
______________

A couple of the questions could be a bit debateable, so it may vary by a point or two, and it also depends on dialects, but here's my attempt to answer the above for English (only listing lost marks, to make it shorter):

1. Half a mark lost for allophonic glottal stop
3. Mark dropped for having a nasal series
23. No front rounded vowels
24. Still no front rounded vowels
36. Half a mark lost for allowing syllable final CCCs clusters
38. Half a mark dropped for not allowing fricative + voiced stop clusters
52. Velar nasal exists
53. Half mark for lack of words ending in /h/
54. Many vowels cannot end words

TOTAL: English is phonologically 93% SAE!

Anybody know enough to work it out for French, Spanish, Italian, German, Greek, Russian, etc? Or Mandarin, Thai, Lakota, Salish (any of them), Hawai'ian, Xhosa, etc?

---------------------------------

While I'm here I may as well do it for Rawàng Ata. Again, listing only SAE points:
2. Half mark, 'hard' vs 'soft' distinction includes voicing (but also, eg, allophonic fricativisation)
3. Technically, hard vs soft stops, in that at least one exists at each stop-POA, and each one only has one gap. although since each has one gap and there are only three stop-POAs, this means they only contrast coronally.
(Not 4, because the series pairing has more than one gap)
9. Half mark: fricatives and stops equal in number
10. More non-stops than stops
12. One phonemic lateral
14. One phonemic rhotic
15. Six POAs
16-19. None of these unusual sounds occur
20. Half mark: 5 qualities
22. No non-rounded non-low back vowels
25. No vowel harmony
27. Half mark: three degrees
29. Half mark: pitch accent
30-34: all these syllable types allowed
36: not allowed
40-42: not allowed
43: no syllabic consonants
44: yes
46-48: yes
50, 55: yes
S1, S2: yes
S3: 2.5 marks, as CCV is only possible with glides
S5, S6: yes
S7: 2.5 marks for hard vs soft including a voicing dimension
S8: 2.5 marks, as fricatives + affricates equals non-nasal stops
S9: could argue 2.5 marks, but I'm not counting them, because /v/ could be argued to be either a fricative or an approximant underlyingly, so 0 marks

Rawàng Ata = 57% SAE (phonologically), if I've counted correctly. Which is more or less what I'd have expected: it's very non-SAE, but not so weird that it shouts "I'm Salish!" or anything right off the bat.
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Herr Dunkel »

Let's try then

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] +0.5
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction] +1
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series]. +1
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) +1
6. Nasals at multiple POAs +1
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] +1
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions] +1
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] +0.5
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops] +1
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruants +1
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA] +1
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] +1
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] +1
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing +1
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] +1
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] +0.5
21. Three or more diphthongs +1
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] +1
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony +1
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] +1
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees] +1
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages] +1
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed +1
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) +1
2. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) +1
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) +1
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed +1
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.] +1
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed +1
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) +1
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel] +1
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants) +1
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] +1
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) +1
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries +1
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all +1
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] +1
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] +1
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA +1

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal +5
S2. No tone system with more than two tones +5
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides] +5
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) +5
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants +5
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless +5
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction] +5
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops] +2.5
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

I score at 65 unless I missed count. This is very european, but there's no metion of holes in the /p b t d k g/ system or sonority hierarchy
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by finlay »

Because I like to give my conlangs names with different initial letters, I'm going to abbreviate them:
P: Panceor; U: Umpát; Y: all Yaufulti; EY, WY: Eastern, Western Yaufulti when different
AS: all Sentalian; S: Standard Sentalian; K: Kanteian; R: Rempocian; V: Vidoan; F: Facurian; M: Mybutan; D: Dotolian

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
P, AS, Y: yes; U: ½ for /ʔ/.
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
AS: yes; P, U, WY: no; EY: ½
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
What does this mean?
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
What does this mean?
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
What does this mean?
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
AS, U, P: yes; Y: no (EY no nasals, WY only /n/)
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
FDY*: yes; SKRV: ½ for fricatives only; PU: ½ for plosives only; M: no (plosives and fricatives)
*Yaufulti has MOA harmony, so this gets more complicated very quickly.

8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
others: no; K: ½ for two gaps; M: yes.
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
SKRVFY: yes; MD: ½; PU: no.
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
SKVDYP: yes; MFR: ½; U: no
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
Mybutan (23), std Sentalian (22), Facurian (20), Dotolian (20): yes; Kanteian (19), Rempocian (19), Vidoan (19): ½; Panceor (14), Yaufulti (10), Umpát (8): no
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
RFDP: yes; SKVM, WY have 1 lateral and no rhotics; U has a rhotic (with lateral allophones) but no lateral phoneme; EY has 2 laterals but no rhotics
13. No lateral obstruants
All: yes (however, WY has [tɬ] as an allophone from consonant harmony and some dialects of Sentalian including the standard have it as an allophone of /tl/)
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
RFDPU: yes; SKVMY have L but no R: no
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
SKVFDYP: yes; RMU: ½
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
All: yes
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
All: yes
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
I'm not sure if I'm doing this one right, but Rempocian has unaspirated-aspirated-voiced, Vidoan has unaspirated-aspirated, and std Sentalian, Facurian and Mybutan have ejectives as well as voiced-voiceless; the rest have only voiced-voiceless, although Panceor and Umpát have no voicing contrast and Yaufulti only has marginal voicing contrasts.
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
SFM: no, ejectives; others: yes
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
AS: yes; P: ½; UY: no
21. Three or more diphthongs
P: no diphthongs (adjacent vowels occupy different syllables); others: yes
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
K: ½ for [ʌ]; D: ½ for [ɤi]; others: yes
23. One front rounded vowel.
KM, Dotolian in [øu]: yes; others: no
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
KM: yes; others: no
25. No vowel harmony
All: yes
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
All: yes (WY has some marginal nasal vowel distinctions phonetically)
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
SKRVF: yes; MDP: ½; UY: no
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
U: yes; PY: ½; AS: no (variable final-weighted stress with slightly different rules per dialect)
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
KV (2-tone): ½; others: yes
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
AS, PU: yes (Panceor, Mybutan and Rempocian anywhere in the word, others only word-initially); Y: no
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
All: yes
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
All but EY (which has no nasals): yes
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
AS, P: yes; U: ½ because stops allophonically fricativise in coda; Y: ½ because only phonetically and not phonemically.
35. CVCC syllables allowed
SRFMDP: yes; KVUY: no
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
All: yes (not allowed at all), except that I need to work this out properly for F/M)
37. CLV syllables allowed
YV: no; others: yes
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
YV: no; others: ½ (P allows /st/, U allows /sk/, Sentalian and derivatives allow FN clusters only); F/M: provisionally yes but I haven't worked it out properly.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
U, maybe F/M: yes; others: no
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
U (in southern dialect, allophonic fricativisation occurs, however), maybe F/M: no; others: yes
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
U: no; others: yes
42. SNV syllables not allowed
USKRFD: no; PYVM: yes
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
All: no syllabic consonants; although some Sentalian coda clusters resemble them, and they don't have to occur word-finally.
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
FM: no (mostly non-content words that only contain schwa in standard Sentalian will have the vowel dropped in Facurian and Mybutan; however, if it can't be run into another word without breaking the syllable structure rules, the vowel will be re-inserted); others: yes
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
PMD: yes; Y: ½ (only allophonically); others: no affricates
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
All: yes
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
Panceor: ½ for /p t ts k kʷ/; others: yes
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
PSKVFMD: no; YUR: yes
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
AS, PU: no; Y: yes
50. No more than two series of fricatives
All: yes
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
SKRV: yes; others: no
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
URY: yes (only allophonic homorganicity constraints); others: no
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
UFMP: yes (some not attested in Panceor); Y: ½ (phonetically only); SKRVD: no (systematic exceptions of approximants and standard-Sentalian ejectives)
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
All: yes
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
AS, UY: yes; P: no (two coronal POAs, every POA has maximum 3 phonemes)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
SKVFMDP: no; URY: yes
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
All: yes
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
UFMPR: yes; SKD: ½; VY: no CCV.
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
UYP: no; AS: yes, although exact totals vary between dialects
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
SFM: no; others: yes
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
Again, not sure what this refers to, but RV include aspiration and SFM include ejectives
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
PU, WY: no; EY, AS: yes
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
SRFMP*U: no; KVDY: yes (Panceor has equal numbers of continuants and non-continuants, but you said to only give ½ marks if continuants outnumber the others; also, I tend to pattern the affricates with the non-continuants, making it unequal.)
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]
P: no; UF: ½: SKRVMDY: yes

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Salmoneus »

Regarding 3, 4, and 5, it might be easier to use examples to explain.

The first says that at each stop-POA, there are two phonemes, and that these two at each POA form two series. But that one stop was allowed per series.
Eg:

p - t - k
b - d - g

--- t - k
b- d- g

p - t - k
--- s - x

p - t ----
m - n - N

All meet this. But:
p - t - k - q
b - d -------
doesn't (the voiced 'series' has too many gaps)

And
p - t - k - q
b - d - g ---
m - n - N ---
doesn't (too many series)

But:
p - t - k - q
b - d - g ---
m- n --------
does! (the nasals are too incomplete to count as a third series)

__________-

On the second one, it's saying that two of these series have to be voiced vs unvoiced: ptk vs bdg or similar. Half marks for if it's distinguished by voicing and something else as well (eg ptk vs BDG).

___________

The third is saying that there are at least two series that share the same POAs and only the same POAs, without any gaps. So ptk vs bdg counts, but ptkq vs bdg doesn't count.

___________-

Finlay: want to add up those scores for comparison purposes?
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by finlay »

Yes, I've just done it; it was quite tiring and time-consuming as I did it by hand. :P I'm going to post my scores, then read your explanation and see if it makes any difference. So these are approximate for the moment.

Panceor: 59%
Umpát: 63%
Western Yaufulti: 67%
Eastern Yaufulti: 71.5%
Standard Sentalian: 68.5%
Kanteian: 79.5%
Rempocian: 79.5%
Vidoan: 69%
Facurian: 64%
Mybutan: 66%
Dotolian: 80.5%

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by finlay »

Salmoneus wrote:Regarding 3, 4, and 5, it might be easier to use examples to explain.

The first says that at each stop-POA, there are two phonemes, and that these two at each POA form two series. But that one stop was allowed per series.
Eg:

p - t - k
b - d - g

--- t - k
b- d- g

p - t - k
--- s - x

p - t ----
m - n - N

All meet this. But:
p - t - k - q
b - d -------
doesn't (the voiced 'series' has too many gaps)

And
p - t - k - q
b - d - g ---
m - n - N ---
doesn't (too many series)

But:
p - t - k - q
b - d - g ---
m- n --------
does! (the nasals are too incomplete to count as a third series)
Ok... um...
SF have /ptk bdg pʼtʼkʼ mnŋ/
K has /ptk bd mnŋ/
R has /ptk pʰtʰkʰ bdg mn/
V has /ptk pʰtʰkʰ mnŋ/
M has /p-t-tʃ-k b-d-dʒ pʼtʼkʼ f-s-ʃ-x v-z-ʒ-ɣ mnŋ/
D has /p-t-tʃ-k b-d-dʒ-g m-n-ŋ/
I think that's all of the Sentalian dialects disqualified for having 3 or more series.

I find it difficult to think of Yaufulti in terms of series because it's phonetically/allophonically quite complicated. But here's the initial-phoneme inventory:
E: p t f s ʒ x ɣ l ɫ j
W: p t k f s ʒ ɣ n l j
In both cases there are more fricatives than stops and it's not clear where the series should be. So I'm going to say "no", because it can't think where the two series would be. It's worth noting for instance that /p f/ are demonstrably in different series because they sometimes differ only by POA, when MOA harmony comes into play. (So they could contrast as [ɸ f] or [β v].

Umpát has /ptk mn s r ʔ/ so I think that's a yes.

Panceor... is a little bit difficult again, but I think it's a yes because it has /p t ts k kʷ/ as its stop series and /(ʋ) l r j w/ as its approximant series – the first in the approximant series could be [v] or [ʋ] and I normally write /v/, so it can be in there or not. Either way, it fits the criteria, as long as you can accept /j/ in tandem with /k/.
__________-

On the second one, it's saying that two of these series have to be voiced vs unvoiced: ptk vs bdg or similar. Half marks for if it's distinguished by voicing and something else as well (eg ptk vs BDG).
OK, no for PUYV and yes for SKRFMD.
___________

The third is saying that there are at least two series that share the same POAs and only the same POAs, without any gaps. So ptk vs bdg counts, but ptkq vs bdg doesn't count.
Yes for all the Sentalian dialects, no for the other conlangs.

Revised percentages:
Panceor: 57%
Umpát: 61%
Western Yaufulti: 64%
Eastern Yaufulti: 68.5%
Standard Sentalian: 67.5%
Kanteian: 78.5%
Rempocian: 78.5%
Vidoan: 67%
Facurian: 63%
Mybutan: 65%
Dotolian: 79.5%
Last edited by finlay on Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Lyhoko Leaci »

Ancaron:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar (phonemic glottal stop)
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays
6. Nasals at multiple POAs (But only two)
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs (stops found at all POAs - Labial-alveolar-velar-glottal)
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops (2 vs. 4)
10. More non-stops than stops (6 non stops, or 8 counting nasals, vs. 7 stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes (I don't consider 15 to be between 15 and 40)
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics (/l/ vs /r/)
13. No lateral obstruants
14. One phonemic rhotic
15. 5-7 POAs (Only 4)
16. No systematic double-articulation
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA ([sʲ] and [zʲ] exist, but that's only one POA, and not phonemic)
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind
20. 7 or more vowel qualities (5...)
21. Three or more diphthongs (10)
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels (no back unrounded vowels at all)
23. One front rounded vowel. (none)
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length.
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (General CVC syllables allowed)
32. CVN syllables allowed
34. CVS syllables allowed
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF (Nothing more than CVC in terms of consonants, not counting geminates, but those are only initial)
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (geminates are allowed, though)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final position (no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes (none)
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA
47. No more than four POAs for stops
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (no nasals other than this)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant (can't end in glottal stop)
54. Words can end in any vowel
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides (unless geminates)
S4. At least 10 vowels in total
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops (4 vs 7 / 6 vs 9)
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants

78.5% (or maybe 83.5%, depending on S3)

Zceikca

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar (Uvular)
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (more like 5)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (none anywhere on fricatives)
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops
10. More non-stops than stops (Counting nasals only makes this even)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes (24)
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics (no rhotics)
13. No lateral obstruants (but two approximants)
14. One phonemic rhotic (still no rhotics)
15. 5-7 POAs (6, 4 not counting fricatives)
16. No systematic double-articulation
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing (or do ejectives count?)
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind (ejectives!)
20. 7 or more vowel qualities (exactly 7)
21. Three or more diphthongs (only 2)
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length.
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress (inital always)
29. No phonemic tone
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (Any CVC)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed (unless geminates count)
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final position
44. All words must include at least one vowel
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA
47. No more than four POAs for stops
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives (only 1)
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA (alveolar = velar)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides (unless geminates count)
S4. At least 10 vowels in total
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless (I don't know if ejectives count)
S7. Phonemic voice distinction (alongside ejectives)
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants

49.5% (up to 55.5% or down to 43.5% depending on S3, S6, 18 and 35)
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Qwynegold »

Maybe I'll do that longer thing some other time.

Some info about my langs:
Liu = Liu, an elvish lang
ML = Modern Liu (placeholder name), a descendant of Liu
Qwg = Qwynegold, an isolate that has borrowed a lot from European languages
Gwb = Gwongbholü, a Tibetlang
Kġħ = Koġołħuẓ, a Semitelang
Lhs = Lhueslue, a magical fantasylang
Pst = Pasetok, an auxlang
PKl = Proto-Kunnu-lūjungo, a Korealang
Sng = Songulda, a Mongollang
Xǔp = Xǔngpìng, a Sinolang
Yan = Yanusu, a Polylang
Viv = Vivu'dunud, a joke-Urallang

1. absence of phonemic opposition velar/uvular
2. phonemic voicing oppositions (/p/ vs. /b/ etc.) as the only distinctions between sounds with the same POA and MOA
3. initial consonant clusters of the type "stop+sonorant" allowed
4. no initial velar nasal
5. a wide variety of allowable clusters that, except for those that contain a sibilant and a stop, all adhere to the sonority hierarchy
6. only pulmonic consonants
7. no phonation or secondary articulation contrasts on vowels
8. three degrees of vowel height (minimum inventory i e a o u)
9. lack of lateral fricatives and affricates
10. two series of coronals
11. lack of a tone or register system
12. at least two of each of the following type of consonant: fricative, nasal, liquid, semivowel

Code: Select all

   Liu ML Qwg Gwb Kġħ Lhs Pst PKl Sng Xǔp Yan Viv
 1 +   +  +   +   -⁸  -   +   +   +   +    +   +
 2 +   +  +   +   +   +   -   -¹³ +   -¹³  -   -
 3 +   +  +   +   +   +   -   -¹⁴ -¹⁵ -¹⁴  -¹¹ -
 4 +¹  -  -   -⁷  -   -   +¹  +   +   -¹⁷  +¹  +¹
 5 -   -  -   -   -   -   -¹¹ -¹⁴ +   -¹⁴  -¹¹ -
 6 +   +  +   +   -   +   +   +   +   +    +   +
 7 +   +  -⁴  +   +   +   +   +   +   +    +   +
 8 +   -⁶ -⁵  +   -⁹  -⁶  +   +   +   -⁶   -¹⁹ -⁹
 9 -   -  +   +   -   -   +   +   +   +    +   +
10 -²  +  +   +   ?¹⁰ +   -¹² +   +   -¹⁸  -   -
11 +   +  -   +   +   -   +   +   +   -    +   +
12 -³  +  +   +   +   +   -   -   +¹⁶ -    -   -
 = 8   8  7   10  5   6   7   8   11  4    6   6
EDIT: Damnit, why doesn't this display properly?
¹There is no phonemic /ŋ/ at all.
²/t/ and /d/ are dental while the other coronals are alveolar, but there is no phonemic distinction between dental and alveolar.
³No liquids, unless you count /ɹ/, but that's just one consonant.
⁴There is ingressive speech, but that's a prosody feature.
⁵Seven degrees.
⁶Five degrees.
⁷I'm not sure, but I think it's allowed.
⁸There is a consonant of unsure quality. It may be a uvular ejective, but it doesn't contrast with any velar ejective.
⁹Four degrees, but not within the same column.
¹⁰Alveolars, retroflexes and one postalveolar consonant.
¹¹No clusters at all.
¹²There are alveolars, and then one affricate that is ts~tʃ~ʈʂ~cç.
¹³Instead there is a plain-aspirated contrast.
¹⁴Only clusters allowed are Cw and Cj. Unclear if the semivowels should be grouped with the vowels.
¹⁵No initial clusters.
¹⁶Depends, does /ʋ/ count as a semivowel?
¹⁷My notes seem to allow it, but I really wonder if that was my actual intent.
¹⁸Alveolars, postalveolars and alveolo-palatals.

So it seems most of my conlangs are either very SAE or half-SAE.
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by cromulant »

Gac.

True; full mark.
Half mark.
False.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series) At all four POAs,Gac has 2 plosives, a fricative and a nasal.)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series]. Voicing contrast on plosives only.
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] Most MOAs found at all POAs.
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions] Fricatives have different phonations at different POAs, but there are no phonationally contrasting POA/MOA fricative apirs.
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops] This assumes affricates don't count as stops. If they do, then it should be blue and the total should be 61.5%
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] /l/ and /L/.
13. No lateral obstruants
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA] /L/ not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA.
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] 4 POAs (conflating bilabial and labiodental).
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees] 3.
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] CVCCC syllables not allowed at all.
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA. FF onsets are prohibited.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) No syllabic consonants.
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Gac is 62% SAE.
Last edited by cromulant on Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by MisterBernie »

I'm only going to do Baranxe'i for this, because it's the most fleshed out:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series) (2 stops and 2 fricatives and 1 nasal at each stop POA; plus the special pattering of /s z ʃ ʒ ɲ/ as a series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series]. (
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] (fricatives everywhere!)
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions] (disregarding /h/ which has [ɦ] only as an allophone)
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] (phonetically, at least)
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruants
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] [ɤ] and [ɯ]
23. One front rounded vowel. /y/
24. Two or more front rounded vowels [ʏ] as an allophone of /y/, and some dialects have /ø/ instead of /ɛ/
25. No vowel harmony exists marginally in certain affixes
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] standard has nasalisation of all vowels, many vernacular variaties only show it allophonically if at all
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed marginal in two roots
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed /tn/ is allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] (four with affricates)
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony (8 phonemically, but 16 phonetically... so how is that counted?)
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (see 51... phonemically, yes, phonetically, no, any final vowel occurs in another quality)
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops] (10 nasal+oral stops vs 16 other)
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]


So approximately 80%, depending on how you count those I'm not that sure about.
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äreo
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by äreo »

Ksso:
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] +0.5
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series) +1
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) +1
6. Nasals at multiple POAs +1
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] +0.5
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]

10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops] +0.5
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]

13. No lateral obstruants +1
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA] +0.5
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] +0.5
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern) +0.5 (giving half because /k͡p ŋ͡m/ only come from borrowings)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] +0.5
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] +1
21. Three or more diphthongs +1
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] +1
23. One front rounded vowel. +1
24. Two or more front rounded vowels +1
25. No vowel harmony +1
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] +1
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees] +1
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages] +0.5
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed +1
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) +1
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) +1
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed

40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) +1
41. CCNV syllables not allowed +1
42. SNV syllables not allowed +1
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes

46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants) +1
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] +1
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) +0.5 (initial velar nasal, but only in loanwords)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives +1
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony (not at the phonemic level)
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] +1
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

S1. No initial velar nasal +2.5, because it only occurs in non-native words
S2. No tone system with more than two tones +5
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) +5
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants +2.5; loans may have clicks
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless +5
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal] +2.5
So Ksso's phonology is 43.5% SAE.

Ascima mresa óscsma sáca psta numar cemea.
Cemea tae neasc ctá ms co ísbas Ascima.
Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by vampireshark »

Yay for Salmoneus' really long questionnaire. Let's see how Ilian fares (as Telèmor's a rather vanilla Romance-like language). I think I'll list what Ilian doesn't have:
Salmoneus' questionnaire, with respect to Ilian, wrote: 5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) any voiced "fricatives" are actually approximants
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes (half: Ilian has 19)
13. No lateral obstruants
21. Three or more diphthongs (no diphthongs at all in Ilian)
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels (<u> is commonly /ɯ/)
23. One front rounded vowel. (none)
24. Two or more front rounded vowels (none)
25. No vowel harmony (oh, there's lots of vowel harmony)
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] (there are nasal vowels)
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees] (three degrees of vowel height)
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress] (stress is always morpheme-initial)
39. CCCV syllables allowed (not permissible)
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) (SSV syllables are permissible)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries (there is a distinction)
50. No more than two series of fricatives (there are several series)
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony (not by a longshot. Vowel harmony is required.)
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (/j/ and /ʋ/ cannot end a word)
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (syllabic r and l cannot end a word)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants (nope, there are fewer fricatives)
Science dictates that Ilian has 77.5% SAE qualities. Granted, it is based off of Hungarian.

And, for shits and giggles, how about Oshaháru.
Salmoneus' questionnaire, with respect to Oshaháru, wrote: 1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] (glottal stop)
2. Phonemic voicing (voicing is nonphenomic)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series]. (no voicing)
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions] (no voicing)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] (18 phonemes)
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA] (no rhotic)
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing (no voicing either)
21. Three or more diphthongs (no diphthongs)
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel. (nyet)
24. Two or more front rounded vowels (nope)
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees] (three)
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress] (nope, no stress)
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages] (oh, there's tone, but it's a bit different from most other languages' systems...)
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed (big no. All syllables are of the CV form.)
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
37. CLV syllables allowed (this is tricky due to elision, but I'll go with a no)
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] (five points)
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) (velar nasal can act as an initial)
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony (there are seven vowels, undistinguished by length)
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (words cannot end in a consonant, strictly speaking)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal (permissible)
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides] (Only CV)
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction] (none at all)
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal] (there are only five fricatives and 8 qualifying others)
This makes Oshaháru 56.5% SAE.
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Risla »

OKAY apparently this is going to be how I spend my Languages of the World class, since we are covering the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. That is the sound of me yawning. Also I like how there's no 33.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruants
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels

25. No vowel harmony (anaptyxis is harmonic, nothing else is)
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)

44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all (phonetically or phonemically?)
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

South Eresian appears to be 55% SAE. Think that's the lowest so far. :D

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Cedh »

Buruya Nzaysa:
(1), 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, (8), 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, (32), 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, (48), 49, 50, 51, (52), 53, 54, (55)
S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, (S6), S7, S8, (S9)
Score: 63%

Ndok Aisô:
(1), 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, (15), 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, (32), 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, (54), 55
S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, S6, S7, S8, S9
Score: 57%

Doayâu:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, (11), 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, (20), 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, (27), 28, 29, 30, 31, (32), 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55
S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, S6, S7, S8, (S9)
Score: 54.5%

Tmaśareʔ:
(1), 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, (7), 8, 9, 10, (11), 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, (26), (27), 28, 29, 30, 31, (32), 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, (48), 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55
S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, S6, S7, S8, S9
Score: 57.5%
Last edited by Cedh on Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Ollock »

Aeruyo

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruants
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs (No diphtongs at all -- rather Japanese-style consecutive vowels.)
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony (Well, maybe marginal vowel disharmony -- but not enough to count.)
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) (no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes (Well, there is one, not sure if that counts.)
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives (one series: This is something I do all the time, in fact.)
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA (but only because all coronal stops are dental, and /ts/ is considered alveolar)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones (stress-accent)
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Overall: 56%
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Chuma »

Some things I don't quite get:
1. I can't think of all that many possible POA behind velar, just uvular and glottal. Or are there any significant number of langs that have both glottal and epiglottal?
2. Doesn't English have a fortis-lenis distinction? Or does that count as plain voicing?
50. What would be an example of more than two series of fricatives?
54. What vowels can't end a word in English?
55. I'm assuming retroflex counts as coronal?

I've tried it for my conlang, and I get:
hhnhy yhyyy nhyhh yyyyy yhyyy yyhyy yynn nnnny yyyyn yhyyy ynnyy
yynyy nhyy
= 70.5%

And for Swedish, I get:
yhnyn yyyyy yyyyy yyyyy yyyyy yyyhy yyyy nyyyy yyyyn yyyyy ynhyy
yyyyy nhyy
= 85%

but I'm sure I've made some mistakes in there. It's late. :)

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Lyhoko Leaci »

Eh, Let's try Proto Zukish-Coastal, the closest common ancestor of Zceikca and Zukish

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar (uvular)
2. Phonemic voicing (/p pʰ b bʰ/)
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (many)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (voicing and more)
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap)
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (nasals balance it)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes (32)
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics (no rhotic)
13. No lateral obstruants (/ɬ/)
14. One phonemic rhotic
15. 5-7 POAs
16. No systematic double-articulation
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind
20. 7 or more vowel qualities (6)
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels (none at all)
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length.
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress (initial only)
29. No phonemic tone
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed
32. CVN syllables allowed
34. CVS syllables allowed
35. CVCC syllables allowed (unless geminants count)
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF (not allowed at all)
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position
44. All words must include at least one vowel
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA
47. No more than four POAs for stops
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant
54. Words can end in any vowel
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides (unless geminants count)
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (11, only due to lenght)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants

53.5%
Zain pazitovcor, sio? Sio, tovcor.
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by cromulant »

Chuma wrote:1. I can't think of all that many possible POA behind velar, just uvular and glottal. Or are there any significant number of langs that have both glottal and epiglottal?
Uvular, pharyngeal, epiglottal and glottal.
Chuma wrote:50. What would be an example of more than two series of fricatives?
Ejective, nasalized, prenasalized, pharyngealized, etc.
Chuma wrote:54. What vowels can't end a word in English?


IMD, /a æ ɛ ɪ ʊ/.
Chuma wrote:55. I'm assuming retroflex counts as coronal?
Yep.

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