zompist bboard

THIS IS AN ARCHIVE ONLY - see Ephemera
It is currently Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:32 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 623 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:38 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:59 pm
Posts: 393
Location: Novo-je Orĭlovo
Both are alveolar. The tongue never reaches the teeth

_________________
Slava, čĭstŭ, hrabrostĭ!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:53 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:26 pm
Posts: 91
Kämpya scores 47.5% (which is good since it isn't intended to be Indo-European). Here is the breakdown (green indicates a full score, blue is half, and red is zero):

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
Glottalised phonation on vowels often manifests itself as a glottal stop.

2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
Most definitely has phonemic voicing, even on nasals.

3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
Kämpya has a third aspirated series of stops, in addition to voiceless and voiced, so no.

4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
Voicing is phonemic on stops and nasals.

5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
I can count five: aspirated stops, voiced stops, plain stops, voiceless nasals and voiced nasals.

6. Nasals at multiple POAs
Labial, alveolar and velar nasals.

7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]

8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
No voicing distinctions on /h/ or on lateral fricatives.

9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
4 POAs for stops, but only 3 for fricatives (unless we included "lateral" as a different POA, but /ɬ/ isn't very European)

10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
9 oral stops, but 17 non-stop consonants, not including nasals.

11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
26 consonants.

12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
/l/ and /ɬ/, distinct from /ɾ/.

13. No lateral obstruants.
Phonemic /ɬ/.

14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
Phonemic /ɾ/.

15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
6 POAs (labial, dental, alveolar, palatal, velar, glottal)

16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)

17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]

18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
Harsh / tense voice and breathy / faucalised voice are both phonemic on vowels.

19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
Going to give half a mark here. The voiced series of consonants are often pronounced as slightly implosive. Plus glottalised phonation on a vowel can allophonically make a following stop into an ejective.

20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
5 vowel qualities /a i u e o/

21. Three or more diphthongs
4 diphthongs /ai au ei ou/

22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]

23. One front rounded vowel.

24. Two or more front rounded vowels

25. No vowel harmony

26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] Phonation is distinguished in stressed vowel.

27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
3 degrees of vowel height.

28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]

29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]

30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed

31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
/ɾ/ occurs as a coda in stressed syllables.

32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)

34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)

35. CVCC syllables allowed

36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]

37. CLV syllables allowed
Half marks here. C /l/ V syllables are found in the formal register of the language, but the /l/ is usually pronounced as /j/.

38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.

39. CCCV syllables allowed

40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)

41. CCNV syllables not allowed

42. SNV syllables not allowed

43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
No syllabic consonants.

44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]

45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
No affricates.

46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)

47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
3 POAs for stops.

48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
Initial /ŋ/.

49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries.

50. No more than two series of fricatives
/sʰ s z ɬ/ all distinguished at the alveolar POA.

51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
Only 5 vowel qualities.

52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
/ŋ/

53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]


54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]

55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):

S1. No initial velar nasal

S2. No tone system with more than two tones

S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides] Half marks here. In the normal registers of the language, the second member of an onset syllable cluster must be a glide.

S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)

S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
Half marks. Voiced consonants can be pronounced as slightly implosive, and glottalised vowels can cause following stops to be pronounced as ejective.

S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
System of contrastive phonation on vowels.

S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
Definitely phonemic.

S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
No affricates, 8 fricatives and 9 stops, so no to the first criteria. 5 liquids / glides and 5 nasals, so no to the 2nd critieria.

S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]
8 fricatives and 5 liquids / glides, so true.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:37 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:12 pm
Posts: 402
Kuty

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] (dialects and whatnot)
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

35% 29%


Last edited by cromulant on Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:19 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:54 pm
Posts: 707
Unnamed Dorishar language:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] (dialects and whatnot)
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Roughly 56% SAE

_________________
Nūdhrēmnāva naraśva, dṛk śraṣrāsit nūdhrēmanīṣṣ iźdatīyyīm woḥīm madhēyyaṣṣi.
satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:13 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:56 pm
Posts: 522
Current project (temptatively named "Ananke").

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] (dialects and whatnot)
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

37.5%; not bad, not bad.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:43 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 880
Location: Llundain
Risha Cuhbi:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] 1/2
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives

4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)

11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]

20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
[color=#FF0000]22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]

23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony[/color]
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities

27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)

33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]

54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones

S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]

S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

47%

_________________
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية

tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!

short texts in Cuhbi

Risha Cuhbi grammar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:22 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm
Posts: 859
Location: The Eastern Establishment
Classical Quazian as it is now:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
[color=#FF0000]23. One front rounded vowel

24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA (two coronal POAs count here too)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

That works out to 30.5% SAE.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:50 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:23 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: I am a prisoner in my own mind.
Salanjan, then Common Zein (descendant of Salanjan), both on the same lines, the word colors are for Salanjan, the 2nd number is Common Zein's.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] +0.5 +0.5
2. Phonemic voicing +1 +1
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives +1 +1
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives +1 +1
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays +0 +0
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined +1 +1
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] +0.5 +0
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops +1 +1
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] +0.5 +0.5
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) +1 +1
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] +1 +1
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] +1 +0.5
13. No lateral obstruents +1 +1
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one] +1 +0.5
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] +1 +1
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs +1 +1
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] +1 +1
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing +1 +1
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] +1 +1
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] +1 +1
21. Three or more diphthongs +1 +1
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] +1 +1
23. One front rounded vowel +1 +1
24. Two or more front rounded vowels +0 +1
25. No vowel harmony +1 +1
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] +1 +0
27. More than three degrees of vowel height +1 +1
28. Phonemic stress +0 +0
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages] +1 +1
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed +1 +1
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) +1 +1
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) +1 +1
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative) +1 +1
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) +1 +1
35. CVCC syllables allowed +1 +1
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed] +0.5 +0.5
37. CLV syllables allowed +1 +1
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA] +1 +1
39. CCCV syllables allowed +0 +0
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) +1 +1
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed +0 +0
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed +0 +0
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants) +1 +1
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both] +0 +0
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes +1 +1
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever] +1 +1
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] +0.5 +0.5
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) +0 +0
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries +1 +1
50. No more than two series of fricatives +1 +1
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony +0 +1
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all +0 +0
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] +1 +1
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables +0 +0
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA +0 +0

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal +0 +0
S2. No tone system with more than two tones +5 +5
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides] +5 +5
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) +0 +5
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants +5 +5
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless +5 +5
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction] +5 +5
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops] +5 +2.5
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal] +5 +0

Salanjan 69.5, Common Zein 69. Give a little, take a little, take a little, give a little :P
That's about what I've aimed for, most of their distinctiveness is in grammar.

_________________
Image Image
Common Zein Scratchpad & other Stuffs! OMG AN ACTUAL CONPOST WTFBBQ

Formerly known as Drydic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:57 pm 
Smeric
Smeric

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1258
Location: Miracle, Inc. Headquarters
Novemberlang (unnamed 9-phoneme-challenge-lang)

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] /h ʁ/
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress (not sure yet, but most likely, as there would be a lot of homophones)
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed (CCV and SNV syllables allowed)
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

54.5 SAE%

_________________
[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:22 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:05 pm
Posts: 434
Location: /ˈaɪ̯əwʌ/
Nessari wrote:
Salanjan 69.5, Common Zein 69. Give a little, take a little, take a little, give a little :P
That's about what I've aimed for, most of their distinctiveness is in grammar.

You've aimed for 69? Why does that not surprise me? :D

_________________


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:56 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
Posts: 4545
Location: the Imperial Corridor
unnamed thing

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives

4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives

5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays

6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined

7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]

8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops

9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]

10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)

11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]

15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]

16. 4 stop/affricate POAs

17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]

18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing

19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]

20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]

21. Three or more diphthongs

22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]

23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels

25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]

27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress

29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]

30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed

31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed

36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]

37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]

39. CCCV syllables allowed

40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)

41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed

42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)

44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]

45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes

46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]

47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]

48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)

49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries

50. No more than two series of fricatives

51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony

52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all

53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]

54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables

55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA


The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]

S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)

S5. No non-pulmonic consonants

S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless

S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]

S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]

S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]


59.5% though I'm not sure how to analyze some things yet

I was expecting >75% but I guess with clusters like mq- pʰn- and -mtʃx -lʲxʃ it can't be *that* European.

_________________
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:21 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Texas
Msérsca:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No sinle MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinuish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinuish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinuished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occurin at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone lanuages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not includin geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not countin /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or countin affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant lenth, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a sinle coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (includin lenth, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not includin anythin suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

75% This is a language with syllabic /s/ whose name begins with [mʒ].

_________________

Ascima mresa óscsma sáca psta numar cemea.
Cemea tae neasc ctá ms co ísbas Ascima.
Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:31 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:23 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: I am a prisoner in my own mind.
ObsequiousNewt wrote:
Nessari wrote:
Salanjan 69.5, Common Zein 69. Give a little, take a little, take a little, give a little :P
That's about what I've aimed for, most of their distinctiveness is in grammar.

You've aimed for 69? Why does that not surprise me? :D

Icwutudidtharr...andwutididtharr :O

_________________
Image Image
Common Zein Scratchpad & other Stuffs! OMG AN ACTUAL CONPOST WTFBBQ

Formerly known as Drydic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:00 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:54 pm
Posts: 707
Hvū-Byāku:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing

19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
[color=#800000]23. One front rounded vowel[/color]
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed

43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
]S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]


Roughly 60% SAE.

...Odd. I was trying make a very Japanese style language.

_________________
Nūdhrēmnāva naraśva, dṛk śraṣrāsit nūdhrēmanīṣṣ iźdatīyyīm woḥīm madhēyyaṣṣi.
satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:03 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:46 am
Posts: 1138
Location: The vendée of America
According to some earlier posts, Japanese scores around 62% based on this, so you may well have succeeded.

_________________
Image
"There was a particular car I soon came to think of as distinctly St. Louis-ish: a gigantic white S.U.V. with a W. bumper sticker on it for George W. Bush."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:25 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
Posts: 4545
Location: the Imperial Corridor
eh I should analyze this differently

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives

4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]

10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)

11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]

12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]

13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]

16. 4 stop/affricate POAs

17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]

18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]

20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]

21. Three or more diphthongs

22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]

23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels

25. No vowel harmony

26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]

27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress

29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]

30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed

31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed

36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]

37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]

39. CCCV syllables allowed

40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)

41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed

42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed

43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)

44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]

45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes

46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]

47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]

48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)

49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries

50. No more than two series of fricatives

51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony

52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all

53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]

54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables

55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA


The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants

S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless

S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]

S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]

S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]


I analyze aspiration as a property of the vowel and it goes up to 70.5%. what

_________________
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:11 pm 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:59 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Menulis, Miestas, Pragaras
Soundness Key:

Green=True or Valid, Sound
Blue=True xor Valid, Sound
Red=Unsound

That Conlang I'm Making From #Isharia That Will Get a Name Eventually

•1: Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar].
•2: Phonemic voicing.
•3: Phonemic voicing only on obstruents.
•4: Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives.
•5: At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays.
•6: One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined.
•7: No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs].
•8: At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops.
•9: Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number].
•10: More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops).
•11: Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]. (36)
•12: One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one].
•13: No lateral obstruents.
•14: One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one].
•15: 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs].
•16: 4 stop/affricate POAs.
•17: No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation].
•18: Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing.
•19: No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series].
•20: 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more].
•21: Three or more diphthongs.
•22: No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels].
•23: One front rounded vowel.
•24: Two or more front rounded vowels.
•25: No vowel harmony.
•26: Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities].
•27: More than three degrees of vowel height.
•28: Phonemic stress. (tone)
•29: No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages].
•30: Syllables without onset consonants allowed.
•31: CVL syllables allowed (L = liquid).
•32: CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal).
•33: CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative).
•34: CVP syllables allowed (P = Plosive).
•35: CVCC syllables allowed.
•36: CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed].
•37: CLV syllables allowed.

•38: FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA].
•39: CCCV syllables allowed.
•40: CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates).
•41: CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed.
•42: CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed.
•43: Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants).
•44: One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both].
•45: (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes. (one affricate)
•46: No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever].
•47: No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates].
•48: No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal).
•49: No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries.
•50: No more than two series of fricatives.
•51: 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony.
•52: No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all.
•53: Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found].
•54: Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables.
•55: More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA.
•56-60: No initial velar nasal.
•61-65: No tone system with more than two tones.

•66-70: Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides].
•71-75: At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental).
•76-80: No non-pulmonic consonants.
•81-85: No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless.
•86-90: Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction].
•90-95: Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops].
•96-100: Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal].
:

49% Standardard Average European

Another formatting, if anyone wants it:

•1: Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar].
•2: Phonemic voicing.
•3: Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives.
•4: Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives.
•5: At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays.
•6: One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined.
•7: No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs].
•8: At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops.
•9: Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number].
•10: More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops).
•11: Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 17 and 35].
•12: One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one].
•13: No lateral obstruents.
•14: One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one].
•15: 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs].
•16: 4 stop/affricate POAs.
•17: No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation].
•18: Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing.
•19: No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series].
•20: 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more].
•21: Three or more diphthongs.
•22: No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels].
•23: One front rounded vowel.
•24: Two or more front rounded vowels.
•25: No vowel harmony.
•26: Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities].
•27: More than three degrees of vowel height.
•28: Phonemic stress.
•29: No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages].
•30: Syllables without onset consonants allowed.
•31: CVL syllables allowed (L = liquid).
•32: CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal).
•33: CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative).
•34: CVP syllables allowed (P = Plosive).
•35: CVCC syllables allowed.
•36: CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed].
•37: CLV syllables allowed.
•38: FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA].
•39: CCCV syllables allowed.
•40: CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates).
•41: CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed.
•42: CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed.
•43: Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants).
•44: One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both].
•45: (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes.
•46: No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever].
•47: No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates].
•48: No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal).
•49: No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries.
•50: No more than two series of fricatives.
•51: 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony.
•52: No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all.
•53: Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found].
•54: Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables.
•55: More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA.
•56-60: No initial velar nasal.
•61-65: No tone system with more than two tones.
•66-70: Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides].
•71-75: At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental).
•76-80: No non-pulmonic consonants.
•81-85: No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
•86-90: Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction].
•90-95: Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops].
•96-100: Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal].

_________________
Hey there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:51 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:14 pm
Posts: 1644
Location: Berlin, Germany
Ngolu. I'm anticipating pretty high Europeanness because I love my swishy fricatives. It'll be saved a bit by ejectives, (C)V syllable structure and an initial velar nasal.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] (Glottal stop exists but it's pretty marginal)
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined - but only because there's a glottal stop, otherwise nasals have three POAs where as each type of stop has only two or three.
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops - post-alveolar, my favourite POA
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) - equal, depending on if you analyse [j] and [w] as phonemic or just allophones of /i/ and /u/.
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] Sort of. There are no rhotics ... or are there. There's a /d~ɾ/ phoneme.
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one] Don't know if it counts, /d~ɾ/.
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs .... that seems hardly fair. There are no affricates. This is because of the glottal stop.
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] (dialects and whatnot)
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing - Ejectives too.
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] - Not as a series? There's /tʼ/ and /kʼ/, matching /t/ and /k/ ... I guess that's a series then, right?
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] - Five.
21. Three or more diphthongs No diphthongs.
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress - Pretty marginal. The only time stress is ever contrastive is when the last vowel is high ...
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed - phonemically yes, phonetically only at the beginning of an utterance, post-pausa or post-high-vowel because of epenthetic consonants
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) CCV syllables are allowed but only where the second one is a semivowel, but semivowels in this position are not distinguished from unstressed high vowels, so ... no?
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries - could change though ...
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] Words cannot end in any consonant at all.
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA Very much so.

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Holy shit! Only 38.5%. Sweet! I was expecting around 60. I guess syllable structure is a big thing.

_________________
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
________
MY MUSIC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:19 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:12 am
Posts: 739
I find this test oddly fascinating. Here's a daughter language I've been working on for Yipta.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives - Phonemic contrast between /x/ and /ɣ/
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] - Fricatives come close, but /ɲ j/ are the only palatals.
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops - Dental and post-alveolar.
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] 26-ish
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] The rhotic phoneme /ɹ/ is fairly uncommon and occurs only between vowels, however.
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] 6
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing - Phonemic creaky voice.
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] - 8
21. Three or more diphthongs - No diphthongs.
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony - Though there are some vestigial traces of vowel harmony from the parent language.
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] - Could analyze creaky voice as a feature of vowels, but it really operates on the level of whole syllables.
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) - Though not all nasals may occur in coda position.
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed] - CVCCC not allowed.
37. CLV syllables allowed - Only if C is a stop or fricative.
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA] - C may only be a nasal in this case.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants) - No sonority hierarchy violations in consonant clusters.
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both] - No syllabic consonants.
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) - Initial /mʷ/ and /ɲ/
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] - Quite a few exceptions.
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables - Stress is fairly insignificant.
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Total: 74.5%, assuming I haven't forgotten how to count again. That's considerably more than it's parent language, though that's not terribly surprising; part of my motivation in designing the sound changes involved was to create an end product that I could pronounce without too much difficulty.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:33 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:54 pm
Posts: 707
Trying out new Pazmat. I expect a pretty high score:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops (Do palato-alveolar fricatives count as palatals or alveolars?)
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] (dialects and whatnot)
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

75% SAE

Once again I find this somewhat suspect as this language allows words like dmriq- "to meet", but I'll leave that be. Now, let's try Pazmat's ancestor, Proto-Pasuu:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives (There AREN'T any other fricatives besides two coronals)
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined (There are no modal nasals at all...why is there nothing in the question for this?)
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents (There are no laterals at all. Once again this question is awkward...with no laterals whatsoever, do I answer "yes" or "no"?
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] (dialects and whatnot)
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed (Only word-initially)
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) (Only because there are only two fricatives, /s z/, and initial geminates aren't allowed)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed (Once again no nasals so this doesn't even apply in the first place)
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever] (This is one of the most confusingly worded questions on here. I suggest rewriting it as "If a non-glottal POA has only one MOA, it's a fricative")
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]

48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) (Once again, no nasals at all)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all (Once again, no nasals at all)
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

48.5% SAE

This quiz is pretty-well made and thorough, but I have two issues with it:

1: Many of the questions are worded very confusingly. I feel this is because most of them are negative statements ("No X") and when there's multiple negative statements piling up like in 46 they can get very confusing.

2: Many of the questions are hard to answer if your language lacks a feature entirely. For instance since PP does not have phonemic nasals at all, many of the questions involving nasals were hard to answer as I commented during the actual quiz.

_________________
Nūdhrēmnāva naraśva, dṛk śraṣrāsit nūdhrēmanīṣṣ iźdatīyyīm woḥīm madhēyyaṣṣi.
satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:54 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:20 pm
Posts: 716
Location: Not Mariya's road network, thankfully.
Chagen wrote:
Now, let's try Pazmat's ancestor, Proto-Pasuu:
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives (There AREN'T any other fricatives besides two coronals)
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined (There are no modal nasals at all...why is there nothing in the question for this?)
13. No lateral obstruents (There are no laterals at all. Once again this question is awkward...with no laterals whatsoever, do I answer "yes" or "no"?
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) (Only because there are only two fricatives, /s z/, and initial geminates aren't allowed)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed (Once again no nasals so this doesn't even apply in the first place)
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever] (This is one of the most confusingly worded questions on here. I suggest rewriting it as "If a non-glottal POA has only one MOA, it's a fricative")
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) (Once again, no nasals at all)
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all (Once again, no nasals at all)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal

48.5% SAE

This quiz is pretty-well made and thorough, but I have two issues with it:

1: Many of the questions are worded very confusingly. I feel this is because most of them are negative statements ("No X") and when there's multiple negative statements piling up like in 46 they can get very confusing.

2: Many of the questions are hard to answer if your language lacks a feature entirely. For instance since PP does not have phonemic nasals at all, many of the questions involving nasals were hard to answer as I commented during the actual quiz.
Some notes on your notes:

4: If there is voicing distinction on only labial/coronal fricatives, then this is fully true. The fact that there are only coronal fricatives is irrelevant.
6: This question works the same way regardless of whether or not there are nasals. If there are no nasals, it is only true if there is only one POA for stops and/or affricates, though.
13: If there's no laterals at all, then there are obviously no lateral obstruents. This one would then be true.
40: I think "S" refers to stops here?
41: Your language allows CCCV syllables (from 39) and disallows CCNV syllables due to the lack of nasals. This is thus true.
46: That sounds easier to understand.
48: I'm not entirely sure what this one should be without any nasals.
52: There are no velar or uvular nasals, so this is true. The fact that there are no nasals at all is irrelevant.
S1: There are no initial velar nasals, so this is true. The fact that there are no nasals at all is irrelevant.

_________________
Zain pazitovcor, sio? Sio, tovcor.
You can't read that, right? Yes, it says that.
Shinali Sishi wrote:
"Have I spoken unclearly? I meant electric catfish not electric onions."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:00 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:48 am
Posts: 2144
Location: Britannia
Let's try Chattaiumas

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar :T
2. Phonemic voicing :T
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives :T
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives :F
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays :T
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined :T
7. No single MOA found at all POAs :T
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops :F
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops :H
10. More non-stops than stops :T
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes :H
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics :T
13. No lateral obstruents :T
14. One phonemic rhotic :T
15. 5-7 POAs :T
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs :F
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation :T
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing :T
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind :T
20. 7 or more vowel qualities :F
21. Three or more diphthongs :T
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels :T
23. One front rounded vowel :F
24. Two or more front rounded vowels :F
25. No vowel harmony :T
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. :T
27. More than three degrees of vowel height :F
28. Phonemic stress :F
29. No phonemic tone :T
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed :T (I think)
31. CVL syllables allowed :T
32. CVN syllables allowed :T
33. CVF syllables allowed :T
34. CVS syllables allowed :T
35. CVCC syllables allowed :T
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF :F
37. CLV syllables allowed :T
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. :T
39. CCCV syllables allowed :T
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed :F
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed :T
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed :F
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives :T
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic :F
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes :F
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative :F
47. No more than four POAs for stops :T
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ :T
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries :T
50. No more than two series of fricatives :T
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony :F
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all :T
53. Words can end in any consonant :F
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables :F
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA :M (only if labiovelar is not counted with velar)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal :T
S2. No tone system with more than two tones :T
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides :T
S4. At least 10 vowels in total :F
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants :T
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless :T
S7. Phonemic voice distinction :T
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops :F
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants :T

Total 71/72%


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:02 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:54 pm
Posts: 707
Lyhoko Leaci wrote:
Chagen wrote:
Now, let's try Pazmat's ancestor, Proto-Pasuu:
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives (There AREN'T any other fricatives besides two coronals)
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined (There are no modal nasals at all...why is there nothing in the question for this?)
13. No lateral obstruents (There are no laterals at all. Once again this question is awkward...with no laterals whatsoever, do I answer "yes" or "no"?
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) (Only because there are only two fricatives, /s z/, and initial geminates aren't allowed)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed (Once again no nasals so this doesn't even apply in the first place)
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever] (This is one of the most confusingly worded questions on here. I suggest rewriting it as "If a non-glottal POA has only one MOA, it's a fricative")
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) (Once again, no nasals at all)
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all (Once again, no nasals at all)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal

48.5% SAE

This quiz is pretty-well made and thorough, but I have two issues with it:

1: Many of the questions are worded very confusingly. I feel this is because most of them are negative statements ("No X") and when there's multiple negative statements piling up like in 46 they can get very confusing.

2: Many of the questions are hard to answer if your language lacks a feature entirely. For instance since PP does not have phonemic nasals at all, many of the questions involving nasals were hard to answer as I commented during the actual quiz.
Some notes on your notes:

4: If there is voicing distinction on only labial/coronal fricatives, then this is fully true. The fact that there are only coronal fricatives is irrelevant.
6: This question works the same way regardless of whether or not there are nasals. If there are no nasals, it is only true if there is only one POA for stops and/or affricates, though.
13: If there's no laterals at all, then there are obviously no lateral obstruents. This one would then be true.
40: I think "S" refers to stops here?
41: Your language allows CCCV syllables (from 39) and disallows CCNV syllables due to the lack of nasals. This is thus true.
46: That sounds easier to understand.
48: I'm not entirely sure what this one should be without any nasals.
52: There are no velar or uvular nasals, so this is true. The fact that there are no nasals at all is irrelevant.
S1: There are no initial velar nasals, so this is true. The fact that there are no nasals at all is irrelevant.


Yeah, looking back on it, most of my complaints aren't really that valid. I just read the questions oddly.

_________________
Nūdhrēmnāva naraśva, dṛk śraṣrāsit nūdhrēmanīṣṣ iźdatīyyīm woḥīm madhēyyaṣṣi.
satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:20 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:21 pm
Posts: 144
Polish:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. /v/ but no /w/
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Voicing as the only phonation distinction
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] (is high central back enough?)
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. Presence of an approximant/non-alveolar rhotic
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length and quality, but not syllable-specific tone or phonation)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Result: 75%


Last edited by Aili Meilani on Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:36 pm 
Smeric
Smeric

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:15 pm
Posts: 1418
Ōgami (Central Miyako) : /m n p t k f s r ʋ/ /i e a u ɯ/. pre- and post-consonantal sonorants are syllabic except when followed or preceded by a vowel. (i.e. /sta/ is two syllables and /usta/ is as well)

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] (not distinguishing labiodentals from labials)
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both] (all consonants other than stops can be syllabic)
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA (labial and alveolar POAs have the same amount)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless

S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

52% SAE.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 623 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group