Akana Conlang Relay 2011 (The Never Ending Relay)
- communistplot
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Akana Conlang Relay 2011 (The Never Ending Relay)
I've been reading up on Akana's roots and would like to maybe get something like the reconstruction relay going on again. :0 If anyone's interested, I think it'll be a fun idea. Basically, for those who don't know/or remember, we have two teams create proto-language and derive daughters from it, then using only the daughters the other team tries to reconstruct the proto-language and whoever's closest get's the prize (this time my love and affection. <3).
Last edited by communistplot on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:30 am, edited 8 times in total.
The Artist Formerly Known as Caleone
My Conlangs (WIP):
Pasic - Proto-Northeastern Bay - Asséta - Àpzó
My Conlangs (WIP):
Pasic - Proto-Northeastern Bay - Asséta - Àpzó
- Herr Dunkel
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
I'd like to do this very much.
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
I'm interested.
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AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
- communistplot
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
That makes three of us. ;D Hopefully more folks join eventually. I really wanna do this.
The Artist Formerly Known as Caleone
My Conlangs (WIP):
Pasic - Proto-Northeastern Bay - Asséta - Àpzó
My Conlangs (WIP):
Pasic - Proto-Northeastern Bay - Asséta - Àpzó
- Herr Dunkel
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
Where and/or how shall we do this?
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- the duke of nuke
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
I'd be interested, actually. After the odd little challenge (like glossing Uyseʔ quotes) I'd rather like to take part in something big.
But as an Akana member, I'll also shamelessly suggest it be set in one of the less fleshed-out parts of Akana
But as an Akana member, I'll also shamelessly suggest it be set in one of the less fleshed-out parts of Akana
XinuX wrote:I learned this language, but then I sneezed and now am in prison for high treason. 0/10 would not speak again.
Re: So, inspiration! :D
Same for me.the duke of nuke wrote:I'd be interested, actually. After the odd little challenge (like glossing Uyseʔ quotes) I'd rather like to take part in something big.
But as an Akana member, I'll also shamelessly suggest it be set in one of the less fleshed-out parts of Akana
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Conlangs: Ronc Tyu | Buruya Nzaysa | Doayâu | Tmaśareʔ
Conlangs: Ronc Tyu | Buruya Nzaysa | Doayâu | Tmaśareʔ
- Herr Dunkel
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
Sure, this might actually be even better than just dumping it into a random area!the duke of nuke wrote:I'd be interested, actually. After the odd little challenge (like glossing Uyseʔ quotes) I'd rather like to take part in something big.
But as an Akana member, I'll also shamelessly suggest it be set in one of the less fleshed-out parts of Akana
Shall we put it in the Western Steppe for starters? I likes les steppes
sano wrote:To my dearest Darkgamma,
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sano
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
It should be be possible to do something in the Western Steppe given the huge area available, but that area does already have a few Western languages. I was thinking the savannah of the southern half of Peilaš would be particularly suitable, or the plains of northern Tuysáfa, since they're more or less empty
Ultimately, though, it's up to what everyone in the relay prefers. And if it's going to be in the style of the original Cursed Relay, there'll be two families, so two locations.
Ultimately, though, it's up to what everyone in the relay prefers. And if it's going to be in the style of the original Cursed Relay, there'll be two families, so two locations.
XinuX wrote:I learned this language, but then I sneezed and now am in prison for high treason. 0/10 would not speak again.
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
My question still stands: how are we going to do it?
We're modern humans now.
We're modern humans now.
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
Much like the original, I'd expect. Two teams are organised; one member on each writes a grammar sketch with a lexicon and a short sample text. This is then sent to the rest of the team, each of whom derives a daughter and provides a similar description and a translation of the sample text. Then, each team is given the other team's daughter languages and tries to reconstruct the original.
I thought, though, that was already clear from the information available. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking...
Also, Caleone, would it be ok to change the thread title? I think we might get a bit more interest that way
I thought, though, that was already clear from the information available. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking...
Also, Caleone, would it be ok to change the thread title? I think we might get a bit more interest that way
XinuX wrote:I learned this language, but then I sneezed and now am in prison for high treason. 0/10 would not speak again.
Re: Team Reconstruction Event Take II
I'd like to join. Especially if it's going to be set in Akana.
I hope that could also be a way to raise my interest again to work on Hośər/Źéylak ...
I hope that could also be a way to raise my interest again to work on Hośər/Źéylak ...
Cuix ticpiä cuitlatl itic motzontecomauh ?
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
You have to keep in mind that I've been active here for only two months =/the duke of nuke wrote:Much like the original, I'd expect. Two teams are organised; one member on each writes a grammar sketch with a lexicon and a short sample text. This is then sent to the rest of the team, each of whom derives a daughter and provides a similar description and a translation of the sample text. Then, each team is given the other team's daughter languages and tries to reconstruct the original.
I thought, though, that was already clear from the information available. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking...
I still don't really understand.
sano wrote:To my dearest Darkgamma,
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- communistplot
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
Basically two teams create a proto-language from which a set of daughter languages is derived and then giving those daughter languages to the other team each team attempts to reconstruct the proto-language as closely as possible.Darkgamma wrote:You have to keep in mind that I've been active here for only two months =/the duke of nuke wrote:Much like the original, I'd expect. Two teams are organised; one member on each writes a grammar sketch with a lexicon and a short sample text. This is then sent to the rest of the team, each of whom derives a daughter and provides a similar description and a translation of the sample text. Then, each team is given the other team's daughter languages and tries to reconstruct the original.
I thought, though, that was already clear from the information available. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking...
I still don't really understand.
The Artist Formerly Known as Caleone
My Conlangs (WIP):
Pasic - Proto-Northeastern Bay - Asséta - Àpzó
My Conlangs (WIP):
Pasic - Proto-Northeastern Bay - Asséta - Àpzó
- Herr Dunkel
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
Danke schönCaleone wrote:Basically two teams create a proto-language from which a set of daughter languages is derived and then giving those daughter languages to the other team each team attempts to reconstruct the proto-language as closely as possible.Darkgamma wrote:
You have to keep in mind that I've been active here for only two months =/
I still don't really understand.
Edit: Just so I don't misunderstand something, I make a protolang, then 2+ daughterlangs, then forward them to reconstructors who will attempt to diachronically reconstruct the proto?
sano wrote:To my dearest Darkgamma,
http://www.dazzlejunction.com/greetings/thanks/thank-you-bear.gif
Sincerely,
sano
- communistplot
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
Basically that, but with a team and possibly more daughter langs.Darkgamma wrote:Danke schönCaleone wrote:Basically two teams create a proto-language from which a set of daughter languages is derived and then giving those daughter languages to the other team each team attempts to reconstruct the proto-language as closely as possible.Darkgamma wrote:
You have to keep in mind that I've been active here for only two months =/
I still don't really understand.
Edit: Just so I don't misunderstand something, I make a protolang, then 2+ daughterlangs, then forward them to reconstructors who will attempt to diachronically reconstruct the proto?
The Artist Formerly Known as Caleone
My Conlangs (WIP):
Pasic - Proto-Northeastern Bay - Asséta - Àpzó
My Conlangs (WIP):
Pasic - Proto-Northeastern Bay - Asséta - Àpzó
Re: Team Reconstruction Event Take II
I would like to try my hand at this.
[quote="Nortaneous"]Is South Africa better off now than it was a few decades ago?[/quote]
- the duke of nuke
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
In the previous one, there was the Ndak Ta team (Radius, Dewrad, Zompist, Ghur, Space Dracula, and possibly others?) and the Isles team (Ran, Legion, Rory, Kolyn, Brandrinn, and Avaja). Radius drew up Ndak Ta, and then each member of the Ndak Ta team derived one daughter; similarly, Ran drew up Proto-Isles, and each member of the Isles team derived one daughter from that.Caleone wrote:Basically that, but with a team and possibly more daughter langs.Darkgamma wrote:Danke schönCaleone wrote:Basically two teams create a proto-language from which a set of daughter languages is derived and then giving those daughter languages to the other team each team attempts to reconstruct the proto-language as closely as possible.Darkgamma wrote:
You have to keep in mind that I've been active here for only two months =/
I still don't really understand.
Edit: Just so I don't misunderstand something, I make a protolang, then 2+ daughterlangs, then forward them to reconstructors who will attempt to diachronically reconstruct the proto?
Then, the Isles daughter languages were sent to the Ndak Ta team and vice versa, and each team had to reconstruct the other team's proto-language - so the Ndak Ta team had to reconstruct Proto-Isles, and the Isles team had to reconstruct Ndak Ta.
Here's the Akana page outlining the process: http://tzirtzi.ipage.com/akana/index.ph ... al_history
And Zompist's page on the reconstruction of Proto-Isles: http://www.zompist.com/proto-ran.html
Also, good to see you, brandrinn! I had a lot of fun studying Zele
XinuX wrote:I learned this language, but then I sneezed and now am in prison for high treason. 0/10 would not speak again.
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
Now I finally understand.the duke of nuke wrote: In the previous one, there was the Ndak Ta team (Radius, Dewrad, Zompist, Ghur, Space Dracula, and possibly others?) and the Isles team (Ran, Legion, Rory, Kolyn, Brandrinn, and Avaja). Radius drew up Ndak Ta, and then each member of the Ndak Ta team derived one daughter; similarly, Ran drew up Proto-Isles, and each member of the Isles team derived one daughter from that.
Then, the Isles daughter languages were sent to the Ndak Ta team and vice versa, and each team had to reconstruct the other team's proto-language - so the Ndak Ta team had to reconstruct Proto-Isles, and the Isles team had to reconstruct Ndak Ta.
Here's the Akana page outlining the process: http://tzirtzi.ipage.com/akana/index.ph ... al_history
So, how will we organise ourselves?
We first need to wait for some other members to come along, then divide ourselves into groups.
sano wrote:To my dearest Darkgamma,
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Sincerely,
sano
Re: Team Reconstruction Event Take II
I'd like to join. Maybe I can get farther deriving a language from someone else's than I've been able to starting from scratch so far.
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Re: So, inspiration! :D
The more recent relay excluded the reconstruction component; that is, both protolanguages were available publically, and people were just designing daughters (in several generations).Caleone wrote:Basically two teams create a proto-language from which a set of daughter languages is derived and then giving those daughter languages to the other team each team attempts to reconstruct the proto-language as closely as possible.
Such free-style version of the relay game allows conlangs already published as part of Akana to be taken as protolanguages, and the players can choose between them in a more informed manner. Also, it appears that it's language families rather than teams that compete in such a relay, so individual players might in principle submit multiple projects, migrate from one team to the other, etc.
I think the two versions involve different types of motivation: solving the reconstruction puzzle + reverse engineering each other's creations vs. exploring the diverse scenarios based on diachronically sexy features of other players' conlangs.
Who is more motivated by what?
* * *
Yeah, this comment also says that I'm interested too (either style), although not sure about how much free time I'll have these weeks (but I'll certainly have some around the New Year).
Basilius
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Re: Team Reconstruction Event Take II
Well, arguably Akana is just a very slow relay of the second kind (derivation only), with the occasional quick burst like the efforts that have led to the Daiadak and Western families. I think a reconstruction challenge, like the original, would be fun since it's an unusual puzzle, and could lead to the creation of quite substantial families in any case.
XinuX wrote:I learned this language, but then I sneezed and now am in prison for high treason. 0/10 would not speak again.
Re: Team Reconstruction Event Take II
I'd say it's a Reconstruction Relay that mutated into a never-ending chain of Derivation Relays :)the duke of nuke wrote:Well, arguably Akana is just a very slow relay of the second kind (derivation only), with the occasional quick burst like the efforts that have led to the Daiadak and Western families.
If we want to repeat this (a Reconstruction Relay continued as a Derivation Relay) on a lesser scale (in which I'd be interested for I'm not sure yet if I can join at the very start), then we need two a priori protolanguages never made public previously, with the cultures behind them fitting a Neolithic setting.
Any candidates?
Basilius
Re: Team Reconstruction Event Take II
I'll join up.
Re: Team Reconstruction Event Take II
Theoretically we could do this with only four people, in two teams of two. But ideally we want more than two people per team.
The strategy last time was each team gets a separate mother language. Each person creates their own daughter. Then the other team gets all these daughter languages and has to guess the initial mother language.
The only problem was that some changes simply disappear. For example, last time out mother tongue started with laryngeals, and none of the daughters preserved them, with several of them dropping the phonemes without a trace. I tried to preserve the laryngeals indirectly through things like emphasis shifts, but the other team never found the hidden laryngeals. So each team needs to carefully make sure that the mother lnaguage can actually be retrieved from the collection of daughters.
The strategy last time was each team gets a separate mother language. Each person creates their own daughter. Then the other team gets all these daughter languages and has to guess the initial mother language.
The only problem was that some changes simply disappear. For example, last time out mother tongue started with laryngeals, and none of the daughters preserved them, with several of them dropping the phonemes without a trace. I tried to preserve the laryngeals indirectly through things like emphasis shifts, but the other team never found the hidden laryngeals. So each team needs to carefully make sure that the mother lnaguage can actually be retrieved from the collection of daughters.
[quote="Nortaneous"]Is South Africa better off now than it was a few decades ago?[/quote]