zompist bboard

I've been reading up on Akana's roots and would like to maybe get something like the reconstruction relay going on again. :0 If anyone's interested, I think it'll be a fun idea. Basically, for those who don't know/or remember, we have two teams create proto-language and derive daughters from it, then using only the daughters the other team tries to reconstruct the proto-language and whoever's closest get's the prize (this time my love and affection. <3).

I'd like to do this very much.

I'm interested.

That makes three of us. ;D Hopefully more folks join eventually. I really wanna do this.

Where and/or how shall we do this?

I'd be interested, actually. After the odd little challenge (like glossing Uyseʔ quotes) I'd rather like to take part in something big.

But as an Akana member, I'll also shamelessly suggest it be set in one of the less fleshed-out parts of Akana

the duke of nuke wrote:I'd be interested, actually. After the odd little challenge (like glossing Uyseʔ quotes) I'd rather like to take part in something big.

But as an Akana member, I'll also shamelessly suggest it be set in one of the less fleshed-out parts of Akana

Same for me.

the duke of nuke wrote:I'd be interested, actually. After the odd little challenge (like glossing Uyseʔ quotes) I'd rather like to take part in something big.

But as an Akana member, I'll also shamelessly suggest it be set in one of the less fleshed-out parts of Akana

Sure, this might actually be even better than just dumping it into a random area!
Shall we put it in the Western Steppe for starters? I likes les steppes

It should be be possible to do something in the Western Steppe given the huge area available, but that area does already have a few Western languages. I was thinking the savannah of the southern half of Peilaš would be particularly suitable, or the plains of northern Tuysáfa, since they're more or less empty

Ultimately, though, it's up to what everyone in the relay prefers. And if it's going to be in the style of the original Cursed Relay, there'll be two families, so two locations.

My question still stands: how are we going to do it?
We're modern humans now.

Much like the original, I'd expect. Two teams are organised; one member on each writes a grammar sketch with a lexicon and a short sample text. This is then sent to the rest of the team, each of whom derives a daughter and provides a similar description and a translation of the sample text. Then, each team is given the other team's daughter languages and tries to reconstruct the original.

I thought, though, that was already clear from the information available. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking...

Also, Caleone, would it be ok to change the thread title? I think we might get a bit more interest that way

I'd like to join. Especially if it's going to be set in Akana.

I hope that could also be a way to raise my interest again to work on Hośər/Źéylak ...

the duke of nuke wrote:Much like the original, I'd expect. Two teams are organised; one member on each writes a grammar sketch with a lexicon and a short sample text. This is then sent to the rest of the team, each of whom derives a daughter and provides a similar description and a translation of the sample text. Then, each team is given the other team's daughter languages and tries to reconstruct the original.

I thought, though, that was already clear from the information available. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking...

You have to keep in mind that I've been active here for only two months =/
I still don't really understand.

Darkgamma wrote:

the duke of nuke wrote:Much like the original, I'd expect. Two teams are organised; one member on each writes a grammar sketch with a lexicon and a short sample text. This is then sent to the rest of the team, each of whom derives a daughter and provides a similar description and a translation of the sample text. Then, each team is given the other team's daughter languages and tries to reconstruct the original.

I thought, though, that was already clear from the information available. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking...

You have to keep in mind that I've been active here for only two months =/
I still don't really understand.

Basically two teams create a proto-language from which a set of daughter languages is derived and then giving those daughter languages to the other team each team attempts to reconstruct the proto-language as closely as possible.

Caleone wrote:

Darkgamma wrote:
You have to keep in mind that I've been active here for only two months =/
I still don't really understand.

Basically two teams create a proto-language from which a set of daughter languages is derived and then giving those daughter languages to the other team each team attempts to reconstruct the proto-language as closely as possible.

Danke schön
Edit: Just so I don't misunderstand something, I make a protolang, then 2+ daughterlangs, then forward them to reconstructors who will attempt to diachronically reconstruct the proto?

Darkgamma wrote:

Caleone wrote:

Darkgamma wrote:
You have to keep in mind that I've been active here for only two months =/
I still don't really understand.

Basically two teams create a proto-language from which a set of daughter languages is derived and then giving those daughter languages to the other team each team attempts to reconstruct the proto-language as closely as possible.

Danke schön
Edit: Just so I don't misunderstand something, I make a protolang, then 2+ daughterlangs, then forward them to reconstructors who will attempt to diachronically reconstruct the proto?

Basically that, but with a team and possibly more daughter langs.

I would like to try my hand at this.

Caleone wrote:

Darkgamma wrote:

Caleone wrote:

Darkgamma wrote:
You have to keep in mind that I've been active here for only two months =/
I still don't really understand.

Basically two teams create a proto-language from which a set of daughter languages is derived and then giving those daughter languages to the other team each team attempts to reconstruct the proto-language as closely as possible.

Danke schön
Edit: Just so I don't misunderstand something, I make a protolang, then 2+ daughterlangs, then forward them to reconstructors who will attempt to diachronically reconstruct the proto?

Basically that, but with a team and possibly more daughter langs.

In the previous one, there was the Ndak Ta team (Radius, Dewrad, Zompist, Ghur, Space Dracula, and possibly others?) and the Isles team (Ran, Legion, Rory, Kolyn, Brandrinn, and Avaja). Radius drew up Ndak Ta, and then each member of the Ndak Ta team derived one daughter; similarly, Ran drew up Proto-Isles, and each member of the Isles team derived one daughter from that.
Then, the Isles daughter languages were sent to the Ndak Ta team and vice versa, and each team had to reconstruct the other team's proto-language - so the Ndak Ta team had to reconstruct Proto-Isles, and the Isles team had to reconstruct Ndak Ta.

Here's the Akana page outlining the process: http://tzirtzi.ipage.com/akana/index.ph ... al_history
And Zompist's page on the reconstruction of Proto-Isles: http://www.zompist.com/proto-ran.html

Also, good to see you, brandrinn! I had a lot of fun studying Zele

the duke of nuke wrote: In the previous one, there was the Ndak Ta team (Radius, Dewrad, Zompist, Ghur, Space Dracula, and possibly others?) and the Isles team (Ran, Legion, Rory, Kolyn, Brandrinn, and Avaja). Radius drew up Ndak Ta, and then each member of the Ndak Ta team derived one daughter; similarly, Ran drew up Proto-Isles, and each member of the Isles team derived one daughter from that.
Then, the Isles daughter languages were sent to the Ndak Ta team and vice versa, and each team had to reconstruct the other team's proto-language - so the Ndak Ta team had to reconstruct Proto-Isles, and the Isles team had to reconstruct Ndak Ta.

Here's the Akana page outlining the process: http://tzirtzi.ipage.com/akana/index.ph ... al_history

Now I finally understand.
So, how will we organise ourselves?
We first need to wait for some other members to come along, then divide ourselves into groups.

I'd like to join. Maybe I can get farther deriving a language from someone else's than I've been able to starting from scratch so far.

Caleone wrote:Basically two teams create a proto-language from which a set of daughter languages is derived and then giving those daughter languages to the other team each team attempts to reconstruct the proto-language as closely as possible.

The more recent relay excluded the reconstruction component; that is, both protolanguages were available publically, and people were just designing daughters (in several generations).

Such free-style version of the relay game allows conlangs already published as part of Akana to be taken as protolanguages, and the players can choose between them in a more informed manner. Also, it appears that it's language families rather than teams that compete in such a relay, so individual players might in principle submit multiple projects, migrate from one team to the other, etc.

I think the two versions involve different types of motivation: solving the reconstruction puzzle + reverse engineering each other's creations vs. exploring the diverse scenarios based on diachronically sexy features of other players' conlangs.

Who is more motivated by what?

* * *

Yeah, this comment also says that I'm interested too (either style), although not sure about how much free time I'll have these weeks (but I'll certainly have some around the New Year).

Well, arguably Akana is just a very slow relay of the second kind (derivation only), with the occasional quick burst like the efforts that have led to the Daiadak and Western families. I think a reconstruction challenge, like the original, would be fun since it's an unusual puzzle, and could lead to the creation of quite substantial families in any case.

the duke of nuke wrote:Well, arguably Akana is just a very slow relay of the second kind (derivation only), with the occasional quick burst like the efforts that have led to the Daiadak and Western families.

I'd say it's a Reconstruction Relay that mutated into a never-ending chain of Derivation Relays :)

If we want to repeat this (a Reconstruction Relay continued as a Derivation Relay) on a lesser scale (in which I'd be interested for I'm not sure yet if I can join at the very start), then we need two a priori protolanguages never made public previously, with the cultures behind them fitting a Neolithic setting.

Any candidates?

I'll join up.

Theoretically we could do this with only four people, in two teams of two. But ideally we want more than two people per team.

The strategy last time was each team gets a separate mother language. Each person creates their own daughter. Then the other team gets all these daughter languages and has to guess the initial mother language.

The only problem was that some changes simply disappear. For example, last time out mother tongue started with laryngeals, and none of the daughters preserved them, with several of them dropping the phonemes without a trace. I tried to preserve the laryngeals indirectly through things like emphasis shifts, but the other team never found the hidden laryngeals. So each team needs to carefully make sure that the mother lnaguage can actually be retrieved from the collection of daughters.