zompist bboard

I'm not getting much of a response to this topic at the CBB, so I'm reposting it here.

Having recently finished redoing the font for the conscript associated with Gomain, I decided to share not only it with you, but also the whole conlang. I also intend to maintain a changelog of sorts in this thread. The PDF of my Gomain grammar is here, and a current Gomain-English dictionary is included in it; additional information on my conscript (the Pekrïf) is in this PDF. I can upload more texts if you want to see more examples of the Pekrïf in action; just let me know.

I'm open to comments/criticism/feedback on anything right now, but I'd especially appreciate feedback on the new, digraph-free orthography. Some suggestions for additional syntax topics are also always welcome. Thank you in advance!

Jádyndár wrote:I'm mainly looking for feedback on the Pékrif at this time (e.g. aesthetics, writability)

It's beautiful, and what a great font! Did you get the font to automatically use initial, medial and final variants? What program did you use?

Imralu wrote:It's beautiful, and what a great font!

Agreed!

The PDF is not displaying non-punctuation/non-mathematical symbols for some reason. Do you have a jpg of it up somewhere?

Gojera wrote:The PDF is not displaying non-punctuation/non-mathematical symbols for some reason. Do you have a jpg of it up somewhere?

I take it you mean the Pékrif-only PDF, right? Your computer is probably substituting a different font for my Pékrif font. Here are screenshots of the two tables of letters: 1 2

Imralu wrote:

Jádyndár wrote:I'm mainly looking for feedback on the Pékrif at this time (e.g. aesthetics, writability)

It's beautiful, and what a great font! Did you get the font to automatically use initial, medial and final variants? What program did you use?

Thank you very much! (Thanks to Earthling as well!) I made the font in FontLab Studio. I wrote OpenType features to try to get Word to use the contextual forms automatically, but it doesn't implement any of my OpenType features at all (not even the kern feature). I might need to get InDesign to get them to work... (or add a few ligatures and another feature for them, which I just might do anyway)

I have just uploaded an image of the Babel text in Gomain:



Here's a transcription:

1 Ís bákshop án zath mekáuóng ókhwéróith ói ís ówéingá ówójáhá.
2 Ís fúm kheféingŕóng lóm úróish, khekréing óm ózésh stáfle úzath ám Shínár ís khelónjh ras.
3 Ís khepráikhwéing óbákái úbákái: "¡Bordú! Zhechóingók ómá ódóglehá ís zhóthók fo sálimíndí." Ís dógle meveng óthédõ pói fói, ís dókrád meveng óthétsú pói fói.
4 Ís khepráikhwéing: "¡Bordú! Zhechéintráuvénók óm ókáikól ís óm óchéix ís nŕáidlém stáfle úwerúyú; ís zhechóingvénók óm óbách, vírt zhekhógǿwødhób nér údánidlém úzath úwóich."
5 Ís Jávé gekómbóng pói pálóidhí ókaikól ís óchéix ló shivá ám shedhwéing khechéintráuáung fo.
6 Ís Jávé gepráikhwéing: "Shtóiléit, ózh ói ís khwéróith ói úbákshop án fo, ís ónóing khebérrásáung stir néi. Ís góskó, menotkingødh ná lóm fói, bákól ló khébég stir néi.
7 ¡Bordu! Zhekómbówók ís zhehelvúrók ókhwéróithlékh ring, pói khepáukóidhak ná ókhwéróithlékh óbákái úbákái."
8 Ís Jávé gekhógǿwóng fó lóm ras nér údánidlém úzath úwóich, ís khérdlóng chéintráudhí ókáikól.
9 Nójá letólówóng óbáchlém Bábél, jorwá ras Jávé gehelvúróng ókhwéróithlém ózath ówóich, ís lóm ras Jávé gekhógǿwóng fó nér údánidlém úzath.

Proper names in the above are underlined, as per normal conventions for Gomain. I can edit a gloss into this post if desired.

EDIT: The grammar has been updated; all classes of irregular verbs are now fully described.

I've made a set of new ligatures for the Pékrif:



The pairs of letters that each ligature is made from are on the left, followed by the isolated and contextual forms to the right (and finally the romanizations of the ligatures on the far right).
What do you all think? Realistic? Plausible? Wacky?

I'm also still open to comments on anything else, so if you have something to say, please share it! Thanks!

Beautiful script, and I love the aesthetic of Gomain.

Bristel wrote:Beautiful script, and I love the aesthetic of Gomain.

Thanks, Bristel!

I've just uploaded a new version of the Gomain Reference Grammar. Here's what's new:

• Lists of abbreviations, tables, and figures
• An analysis of falling diphthongs as VC series
• Revised vowel allophony with examples
• The Pékrif ligatures from earlier in this thread
• A section on color terms (section 5.4)

You can get the new version through the link in the first post - or right here. If you have any suggestions for new topics to include, or places that could use more examples, please let me know. Enjoy!

One morpheme I've been questioning lately is what I've termed the "gerund locative", which forms a noun from a verb with the meaning "place of [verb]ing". To quote from the reference grammar, page 12:

In the Gomain Reference Grammar, I wrote:In practice, the gerund locative refers to a small area – the exact spot where an action happens.

Besides the gerund locative, I also have another noun-forming suffix, -ón, which can be applied to nouns, verbs, and adjectives. It has basically the same meaning as the gerund locative, but, to quote page 20, "generally refers to a physically larger area than the gerund locative." Is this a reasonable/naturalistic way to keep from having two morphemes with identical meanings? Or are they pretty much redundant? (Not that there's anything wrong with redundancy...)

Any comments on the above? I would very much like to hear your thoughts about what I wrote in my previous post.

Anyway, I have something special today: a report on irregularities in Gomain!

I discuss the classes of irregular verbs in the reference grammar, but until now, I haven't provided any information about how large they are. There are altogether 313 irregular verbs in the current 2,955-entry lexicon (making up about 29% of all verbs), spread unevenly acorss the nine paradigm classes and the classless group. Here's the breakdown by class:

• 53 verbs in no class, of which 14 are roots
• 71 verbs in Class Ia, including 39 roots
• 20 in Class Ib, including 11 roots
• 14 in Class II, including four roots
• 17 in Class III, including seven roots
• 12 in Class IV, including five roots
• 29 in Class V, including six roots
• 16 in Class VI, including nine roots
• 46 in Class VII, including five roots
• 15 in Class VIII, including three roots
• 20 in Class IX, including five roots

As you can see, most of the classes have very few roots. I plan on adding more root verbs in the coming days to make up for this deficiency, and I'm currently looking for good candidates for irregular verbs. My main source so far has been Buck's A Dictionary of Selected Synonyms in the Principal Indo-European Languages, but I'm open to further suggestions from you all.

I haven't devoted nearly as much effort to creating irregular nouns, so there are relatively few of them (32 in total, all root nouns). The only irregularity for each noun is its plural form, for which the following patterns exist:

• 13 plurals with final -i [ɪ] instead of the usual -á [ɑ]
• 11 plurals with an infixed -i- and nothing else, one of which augments another -i- to -í-
• four with an infixed -i- and the regular plural suffix -á
• three with final -ã [ɑ̃]
• one with no distinct plural form

My current explanation for some of these patterns is that the final -i and infixed -i- were originally one set, belonging to one of the Classical Ánhrushite genders (most likely the feminine). I might add more irregular plural forms, using my current set of historical sound changes as a guide. At any rate, I'll definitely also expand the current set of irregular plurals soon.

As usual, comments are welcome on whatever you find interesting.

I think it would be amazingly useful if in your glossing you included a break-down of the Gomain words. I find glossing to be pretty useless without it.

What did you use for the font?

Any sound sample?

Gomain! I saw your script months ago and it was really awesome. I don't think there's anyone who doesn't like it. And the conlang itself seems quite interesting and complete, too.

MONOBA wrote:I think it would be amazingly useful if in your glossing you included a break-down of the Gomain words. I find glossing to be pretty useless without it.

Good point. I'll add word breakdowns on a new line in the next revision of the grammar.

MONOBA wrote:What did you use for the font?

I made the current version entirely in FontLab Studio 5. It has OpenType features that are supposed to substitute the contexual forms of the letters, but Word doesn't implement them, and they don't work at all with Photoshop CS (and I have no money for a program that will actually use them, like InDesign). </rant>

MONOBA wrote:Any sound sample?

My most recent sound sample is here, and although I recorded it before changing how possession works, it's still pretty representative of the conlang. I have a few much older samples on this page, if you don't mind listening to an older version of Gomain.

Mr. Z wrote:Gomain! I saw your script months ago and it was really awesome. I don't think there's anyone who doesn't like it. And the conlang itself seems quite interesting and complete, too.

Thank you very much! I'm happy you like both of them.

Following MONOBA's request for expanded glosses, I've just uploaded a new version of the reference grammar; as usual, it's available via the link in my OP.

I've also prepared a new sample text in the Pékrif. You've probably seen part of this sample before, in my sig, but here's a larger version of it, artistified with the help of Inkscape:



The text is a quote from philosopher Zátréikhá Óindémjád's book Wisdom. It reads:
Úm shedhwéing gedhéskók ná gírkvéndhí imhrói ís gorówók óbáxhop ódhúngkkéiá, ná gedhéskók gírkthí imhrói ójáu ís goróvénók, ná gedhéskók gírkthí imhrói ómá ódhúngkkéiá ís gorówók ójáu, vírt jáu gegídâróidhób dhrogwéth ke stáfle únáil. Páuí úsháil, gedhéskók gírkthí óbáxhop ói óp úzhbũ; jáu geshérímóidh súr fŕdíndí ke.

In English:
Let not a man seek to please himself only and ignore all others, nor let him seek to please God only and ignore himself, nor let him seek to please others only and ignore God, lest God find him lacking in these. Rather, let him seek to please each in its proper time; then, God will judge him favorably.

In case you're unaware, Gomain is the featured conlang in Episode 28 of the Conlangery podcast! I'm thrilled to have Gomain reviewed on the show, and I hope to record some feedback with Ollock for a future episode.

Since some of you have kindly voted for the Pékrif for Best Script in this year's ZBB Awards, I uploaded a new version of my Pekrif Intro PDF, with slightly rearranged letter tables and three more sample texts. The PDF, which I linked to in my OP, is also here.

I've also uploaded a draft of my new map for the continent of Záshâvé, the home of most of Gomain's native speakers, which you can view here (warning: image is 1.15 MB). I'm still in the process of drawing the hills and rivers/lakes, and there aren't any labels yet, so there will be more updates in coming days. (If you're wondering about all the different colors on the map, they're my best attempt at distinguishing different climates. I can add a legend to the map if desired (and probably eventually will anyway).

EDIT: Before I forget, Happy Ánhrushite New Year! Year 3644 of the Ánhrushite epoch began at 01:30 UTC this past Sunday (the 11th).

Just seen this linked on the ZBB Awards thread, and it's a really nice language - I've cast a couple of votes for it. I particularly like the script, the morphology and (because these things are often overlooked) the sections on lexical domains and dialects.

Dibiinizhiníí ˀanrushínéégǫǫ yatthéégǫǫ!
Happy Ánhrushite New Year!

*albeit a late one for my greeting

Curlyjimsam wrote:Just seen this linked on the ZBB Awards thread, and it's a really nice language - I've cast a couple of votes for it. I particularly like the script, the morphology and (because these things are often overlooked) the sections on lexical domains and dialects.

Thank you so much! I'm very honored.

Bristel wrote:Dibiinizhiníí ˀanrushínéégǫǫ yatthéégǫǫ!
Happy Ánhrushite New Year!

*albeit a late one for my greeting

Jáu góilkhóidhak óshálóm ís óhréimúshém chéi stáfle úhwok útárung!
May God give you peace and serenity in this new year!

I've started a new endeavor with Gomain: diachronics. Since Gomain is the modern language, I'm working backwards a couple steps at a time, reconstructing past stages until I arrive at Proto-Yavian, the most distant ancestor of all languages related to Gomain. That'll be at least ten distinct stages, but I've decided to take most of them two at a time.

As a first step, I've just finished entering all the sound changes I've worked out so far to go from Old Gomain to Modern Gomain (temporarily bypassing Middle Gomain). I have yet to put the lexicon through them, although I did a handful of examples. First, my reconstructed phoneme inventory of Old Gomain:

/p b t d k g/
/f v θ ð s z x ɣ h/
/m n ŋ/
/r l w j/

/æ ɛ ɪ ɔ œ ʊ ʏ/
/a e i o ø u y/
/æj æw ɛj ɛw œj œw ɔj ɔw ɪw ʏw ʊj/
/aj aw ej ew øj øw oj ow iw yw uj/

At this point, I've already decided that most of the fricatives above will arise from earlier affricates and aspirated stops (with only /f s z h/ coming down unchanged from Proto-Anhrushitic (an intermediary stage between OG and Late Ánhrushite). Now then, the sound changes from this point:

1a. VC[+nasal] > Ṽ[+tense] / _# [e.g. an# > ã#, but an-(suffix); am# > ã#, but am-(suffix) (jebim > jɛbĩ ‘she cries’; ebim-æg > ɛbĩmæg > ɛbĩnæg ‘the cry’)] [Cheshirized nasals all > n after Middle Gomain]
1b. plosive > Ø / nasal_# (amb > ɑm ‘of’)
1c. fricative > Ø / plosive_# (gants > gɑnt ‘short-sword’)

2. V[+hi, α tense]w > jV[+hi, +back, α tense] ({iw yw} > ju, {ɪw ʏw} > jʊ)

3. {l r} > Ø / _j (xarjaw > xajaw ‘sixth month’; ɪljax > ijɑx ‘sheep’)

4a. V[-tense] > [+tense] / _glide (e.g. æw > aw, ʊj > uj)
4b. u > o / _j% i.e. uj > oj
4c. V[-back, +round] > [-round] / _glide% (i.e. øj > ej, øw > ew)
4d. {ew ow} > o

5a. ɛ > ə
5b. e > ɛ except _j

6. ə > Ø / j_# (ʊjperjɛ > ojpejə > ojpej ‘honor’)

7a. sj > ʃ, zj > ʒ (sjændɔn > ʃændõ ‘drunk’)
7b. C[+sonorant, -nasal] > [-voice] / s_ (sl > ɬ, sr > r̥, sw > ʍ)
7c. {s z} > Ø / _C[+sonorant, -nasal]

8. hj > ʃ

9. r > [+syllabic] / ə_ (ɛrtorx > r̩tɔrx ‘prison’)

10. ŋ > n / #_ (ŋa > nɑ ‘not’)

11. ɣ > h

12. α liquid > w / β liquid_ (i.e. lr > lw, rl > rw)

13. {t d}j > {ʧ ʤ} (tjaŋɛr > ʧɑŋr̩ ‘refuse’)

14. C[+nasal] > [-nasal] / liquid_ (fegakerpalmem > fɛgɑkɛrpɑlbɛm ‘paranoia’)

15. [-continuant, -voice] > [+aspirated] / except s_

16. Ø > u / [-continuant, -voice]_w

17a. [-continuant, +voice] > Ø / #_r (how to prevent d from being affected?)
17b. [-continuant, +voice] > [-voice] / %_r (same question)
17c. [-continuant, -voice] > [+voice] / _{I w}

18. o > ɔ / _r

19. s > h / C[+nasal]_# (ans > ɑnh ‘spring, oasis’)

The resulting phoneme inventory is that of Modern Gomain (see page 2 of the reference grammar, AKA page 8 of the PDF). I haven't firmly decided on the relative ordering of some of the changes, but really just the ones that don't depend on other changes in some way.

How's this for a first attempt at diachronics? Do any of the changes seem weird/unnaturalistic? Do I have a reasonable number of them for a timespan of roughly a millennium?

Finally, happy birthday to me!

I have just uploaded new versions of the reference grammar and Pékrif Intro PDFs. The latter now includes the table of ligatures I posted earlier in this thread, and I added information on two new derivational morphemes (-j in Nominalization and -át in Adjectivization). Please let me know what you think of them, and about my sound changes above. Thanks!

Bump, because I'd really appreciate feedback on my sound changes above. What changes are good? Which ones are too weird to work (if there's anything not covered by ANADEW)? Should I have more changes, or do I have enough now?

Hmm. Still no comments on those sound changes. Either they're fine as is, or I need to post more sample words/sentences...

Anyway, the dictionary now has 3000 entries! Check it out here.

I hadn't posted anything because I'm a newbie...

The sound changes seem nice, though nothing really weird seems to go on. Only 8 doesn't seem to make much sense for me (did that happen in any other language?), and 19 seems to be quite unstable (personally, I'd have turned nasal+h_# into voiceless nasals :3).

What's ANADEW?

Taernsietr wrote:
What's ANADEW?

Another Natlang's Already Don'it, Except Worse

Taernsietr wrote:Only 8 doesn't seem to make much sense for me (did that happen in any other language?),

Quite a few languages have h > ç / _j, and ç > ʃ seems quite likely.