Alahithian

Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
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Curlyjimsam
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Re: Alahithian

Post by Curlyjimsam »

Grunnen wrote:Just like it would be painstaking work for us to try and figure out what you mean with the letters you posted.
More realistically anyone who speaks English could, with the use of the guide to pronunciation linked to, work it all out in about ten seconds, with perhaps a little bit of uncertainty about some of the vowels.

It may be a controversial opinion on a board that perhaps spends more time critiquing rudimentary phonologies than anything else, but I'd say that in reality the exact values of sounds is one of the least important aspects of a conlang. The beginner has to give us enough information to prove that his/her phoneme inventory is reasonably balanced (and perhaps not too English-like in its distribution of phonemes*) - things like specific values of sounds, allophony etc. etc. are very easily changed at a later date with next-to-no impact on any other part of the conlang and to be honest there's no real need for a first-timer to dwell too long and hard on them straightaway.

* - An English-like distribution of phonemes is perhaps the main criticism I'd have of this language. In particular: large fricative inventories like the one given here are very typical of the languages of north-western Europe and not found too often anywhere else. This isn't necessarily bad, but it's the sort of thing that could come back to haunt you in future. I speak from experience - my main language Viksen, which I've been working on for a decade or so now, has a similar set of fricatives, and the fact that's it a bit too Englishy has been bothering me increasingly recently, but unfortunately the language has reached the stage of advancement where changing it is going to take a lot of work.

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Re: Alahithian

Post by rickardspaghetti »

Astraios wrote:
Darkgamma wrote:He can read about it later down the road.
Sure he can, but since you brought it up with your post about needing some way to distinguish subject from object, I thought I'd post about that now. Problem?

Darkgamma wrote:If he wants examples of ambiguity, he can go to monster raving loonies.
If that's meant to be an ad hominem, look who's picking fights. If it's not, quoi?
Él ewáčhiŋ šni yo, tȟaŋháŋši. Owáakhiye othí uŋmá él ȟleté héčha čha anáuŋtape ló.
そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。

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Re: Alahithian

Post by Astraios »

Ečháčha ȟleté ȟče héčha. Líla mayáglawaȟwala čha lé wóphila héčha. :D

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Re: Alahithian

Post by Herr Dunkel »

rickardspaghetti wrote:
Astraios wrote:
Darkgamma wrote:He can read about it later down the road.
Sure he can, but since you brought it up with your post about needing some way to distinguish subject from object, I thought I'd post about that now. Problem?

Darkgamma wrote:If he wants examples of ambiguity, he can go to monster raving loonies.
If that's meant to be an ad hominem, look who's picking fights. If it's not, quoi?
Él ewáčhiŋ šni yo, tȟaŋháŋši. Owáakhiye othí uŋmá él ȟleté héčha čha anáuŋtape ló.
Et tu, Rickard?
Oh yeah, I forgot you were a Lakotaer.
How can I join the club?
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Sincerely,
sano

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Re: Alahithian

Post by Astraios »

Darkgamma wrote:Et tu, Rickard?
Oh yeah, I forgot you were a Lakotaer.
How can I join the club?
Tákuni eyé šni yo!

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Re: Alahithian

Post by Herr Dunkel »

Astraios wrote:
Darkgamma wrote:Et tu, Rickard?
Oh yeah, I forgot you were a Lakotaer.
How can I join the club?
Tákuni eyé šni yo!
DX
sano wrote:
To my dearest Darkgamma,
http://www.dazzlejunction.com/greetings/thanks/thank-you-bear.gif
Sincerely,
sano

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Re: Alahithian

Post by Turtlehead »

Back to tree gods work. No more flame skirmish :wink:
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ

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Re: Alahithian

Post by ol bofosh »

Curlyjimsam wrote:
Grunnen wrote:Just like it would be painstaking work for us to try and figure out what you mean with the letters you posted.
More realistically anyone who speaks English could, with the use of the guide to pronunciation linked to, work it all out in about ten seconds, with perhaps a little bit of uncertainty about some of the vowels.
That's what I thought. It's a rough guide, nothing more. People can have a quick look over it if they want, or just leave it be.
Curlyjimsam wrote:It may be a controversial opinion on a board that perhaps spends more time critiquing rudimentary phonologies than anything else, but I'd say that in reality the exact values of sounds is one of the least important aspects of a conlang. The beginner has to give us enough information to prove that his/her phoneme inventory is reasonably balanced (and perhaps not too English-like in its distribution of phonemes*) - things like specific values of sounds, allophony etc. etc. are very easily changed at a later date with next-to-no impact on any other part of the conlang and to be honest there's no real need for a first-timer to dwell too long and hard on them straightaway.
I kept an English like phonology for convenience. It's just so that I can pronounce it without thinking too hard, or looking at a chart for guidance each time. And as you say, I can change it at a later date.
Curlyjimsam wrote:[* - An English-like distribution of phonemes is perhaps the main criticism I'd have of this language. In particular: large fricative inventories like the one given here are very typical of the languages of north-western Europe and not found too often anywhere else. This isn't necessarily bad, but it's the sort of thing that could come back to haunt you in future. I speak from experience - my main language Viksen, which I've been working on for a decade or so now, has a similar set of fricatives, and the fact that's it a bit too Englishy has been bothering me increasingly recently, but unfortunately the language has reached the stage of advancement where changing it is going to take a lot of work.
If I make any sound changes to take it away from the English/NW European bias then I'd take the sounds more to the back of the throat. I had an idea for the ET humans that they'd have been bred (or GM modified) to be closer to some other animals from Earth (wolves, bears, lions, etc.), to make them warriors of different types, though keeping things like higher brain functions, bipedallism, opposible thumbs and ability to talk. Their language might sound a bit more animalistic in some ways. But at this stage of my learning process it's not important.

Another thing is that each group of ET humans could have their own dialect/language and that Alahithian is a common language between them.

But at this stage the cultural context of the language are on the back burner whilst I learn how languages actually work.
It was about time I changed this.

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ol bofosh
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Re: Alahithian

Post by ol bofosh »

So here's some work I've done on non-personal pronouns:

Query: which, ki; who, jhem; what, top; where, ij; when, won; how, pa; why, ejh.

This/that/these/those(adj/thing): this, bik; that, bak; these, big; those, bag.

Person: this person, jhim; that person, sham; these people, jim; those people, zham.

Place: here, vij; there, jas

Time: now, von; then, ern

I might make a more complete table of pronouns, just to experiment with the variety. Maybe even experiment with more distance, like in Spanish aquel/la.

Here are some suffixes: some, -ehh; no, -el; any, -ash; all, -od
It was about time I changed this.

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Herr Dunkel
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Re: Alahithian

Post by Herr Dunkel »

treegod wrote: Person: this person, jhim; that person, sham; these people, jim; those people, zham.
You might want to kill the distance distinction, if you want.
German's "Dies(e(r/s))" means both "this" and "that" and, even though there exists a "jene(r/s)" = "that", I find it somewhat uncommon.
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Re: Alahithian

Post by Drydic »

Darkgamma wrote:
treegod wrote: Person: this person, jhim; that person, sham; these people, jim; those people, zham.
You might want to kill the distance distinction, if you want.
German's "Dies(e(r/s))" means both "this" and "that" and, even though there exists a "jene(r/s)" = "that", I find it somewhat uncommon.
On the contrary, add more. This ~ That ~ That Over Yonder.
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Re: Alahithian

Post by Jipí »

Spoken German mostly uses "der/die/das X hier" vs. "der/die/das X da", but yeah, "jener" is unheard-of these days, AFAICT.

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Re: Alahithian

Post by ol bofosh »

I'd be tempted to add more just to experiment. If I find I have a surplus of pronouns it's easy to get rid of them.
It was about time I changed this.

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Re: Alahithian

Post by Herr Dunkel »

Guitarplayer wrote:Spoken German mostly uses "der/die/das X hier" vs. "der/die/das X da", but yeah, "jener" is unheard-of these days, AFAICT.
I feel that the people I hear that use "jener" (along with the super-formal Hochdeutsch) sometimes just intentionally want to sound like they have sticks up their asses.
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Re: Alahithian

Post by Turtlehead »

treegod wrote:I might make a more complete table of pronouns, just to experiment with the variety. Maybe even experiment with more distance, like in Spanish aquel/la.
Maori has a good system
Tenei (this by me(the speaker))
Tena (that by you)
Tera (that over there neither by me or you)
anei - here
ana - there
ara - over there

*sorry no macrons
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ

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Re: Alahithian

Post by ol bofosh »

I like terei, tena and tera.

I was even thinking of the "there, out of sight". And maybe "there, beyond access". I don't know what sort of culture would justify their use, but it's interesting to brainstorm :)
It was about time I changed this.

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Re: Alahithian

Post by Herr Dunkel »

treegod wrote:I like terei, tena and tera.

I was even thinking of the "there, out of sight". And maybe "there, beyond access". I don't know what sort of culture would justify their use, but it's interesting to brainstorm :)
You could also want to introduce different registers of formality (Would you say to the Queen "Yo bitch, wazzup ma man?" ...?)
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To my dearest Darkgamma,
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Sincerely,
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Re: Alahithian

Post by ol bofosh »

It's not original but I had to do it...

Ejh vawes baraw angod, ejh vawes ajhey ang, ejh vawes ritew angod ing vawey ang thôopa gof.

Can you guess what it is? :wink:

@Darkgamma: maybe if I was Ali G :)
It was about time I changed this.

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Re: Alahithian

Post by Grunnen »

treegod wrote:It's not original but I had to do it...

Ejh vawes baraw angod, ejh vawes ajhey ang, ejh vawes ritew angod ing vawey ang thôopa gof.

Can you guess what it is? :wink:

@Darkgamma: maybe if I was Ali G :)
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χʁɵn̩
gʁonɛ̃g
gɾɪ̃slɑ̃

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Re: Alahithian

Post by TomHChappell »

Grunnen wrote:
treegod wrote:Ejh vawes baraw angod, ejh vawes ajhey ang, ejh vawes ritew angod ing vawey ang thôopa gof.
It's not original but I had to do it... Can you guess what it is?
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I agree with Grunnen.

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Re: Alahithian

Post by Rodlox »

Darkgamma wrote:
treegod wrote:I like terei, tena and tera.

I was even thinking of the "there, out of sight". And maybe "there, beyond access". I don't know what sort of culture would justify their use, but it's interesting to brainstorm :)
You could also want to introduce different registers of formality (Would you say to the Queen "Yo bitch, wazzup ma man?" ...?)
only if i had a deathwish.
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Re: Alahithian

Post by ol bofosh »

TomHChappell wrote:
Grunnen wrote:
treegod wrote:Ejh vawes baraw angod, ejh vawes ajhey ang, ejh vawes ritew angod ing vawey ang thôopa gof.
It's not original but I had to do it... Can you guess what it is?
One Ring
I agree with Grunnen.
I too agree!

It made me come up with a few new words and adapt a few invented ones to the translations. I'll get my notes and show how it translates literally (e.g. "bind the all" becomes "circle them all" and "find them all becomes "take them all").

I'm thinking instead of come up with a list of abitrary words (or rather, as well as) I can take a few texts and translate them. I've got a few poems of my own somewhere...
It was about time I changed this.

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Re: Alahithian

Post by TomHChappell »

treegod wrote:It made me come up with a few new words and adapt a few invented ones to the translations. I'll get my notes and show how it translates literally (e.g. "bind the all" becomes "circle them all" and "find them all" becomes "take them all").

I'm thinking instead of come up with a list of abitrary words (or rather, as well as) I can take a few texts and translate them. I've got a few poems of my own somewhere...
Why not translate all of your posts (at least from now on until you're through) into your conlang?
Last edited by TomHChappell on Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alahithian

Post by ol bofosh »

Here's a haiku I wrote in English translated to Alahithian:

Sivur geraf sanashosh,
Trust life's adventure,
Ridew shon bexit,
Open to you potential, (literally, accept you potential)
Ing daraw batath.
And face the challenge. (lit. and stand the challenge)

I've changed hh to x and ôo to û.

The other day I realised I repeated a word. Ejh, which means "one" in the LOTR line above I'd originally used for the question "why". I think I may keep that. :)
It was about time I changed this.

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Re: Alahithian

Post by ol bofosh »

I've worked out perfective, imperfective and perfect.

For perfective it's a simple verb with tense suffix. For imperfective -a is attached to the verb after the tense. And for the perfect an -o suffix is attached.

I'm still considering how wide the applications for the imperfective should be (continuous, progressive, habitual, iterative). From what I see some of these can be included in an all-encompassing imperfective or modified somehow by adverbs. Any ideas?
It was about time I changed this.

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