Himmaswa language

[clawgrip]

Thanks, I'm glad you like it. I'm having fun creating it.

The script is now up to 479 characters. Not far to go now before I reach 500.

[Rik]

This is an awesome piece of work.

Heavy applause from this part of the audience!

[clawgrip]

Thanks.

I've been updating the Himmaswa page on CALS, so you can get more information and translations there if you're interested.

http://cals.conlang.org/language/himmaswa/

[clawgrip]

The script now has a total of 507 characters. The conlang fluency and lexicon building threads are really helping me expand here.



I do not like all characters equally:
Like:
yoan: if - it reminds me of those flying eyeballs from Zelda 2 and Castlevania 3
nung: relative pronoun - it wasn't supposed to look like a plant. It just does.
jgout: rain - multiple small objects in the sky

Most ridiculous and probably unrealistic but I like them anyway:
tiang: reed - not as bad as it looks, because it's actually just a combination of and , and the writer would likely know this, but still, kind of ridiculous.
glong: bush; shrub - kind of looks like a guy with a fancy hat
arm: affair; matter; topic (the two circles represent arng ('two') and are acting as a phonetic complement

Most Aesthetically Displeasing:
bloyt: cloud - too top heavy and overall ugly. But at least it seems to be smiling
tmeuk: ought to; be expected to - same as bloyt, but slightly simplified
bol: shadow - this one is just really ugly and awkward. I should probably simplify the middle part into just a round enclosure (sur jmot ler erñ, for anyone paying attention to that)
pdal: courtyard - ugly and awkward but also needs simplification on the bottom

[brandrinn]

tmeuk looks like a fat person's torso.

[clawgrip]

I can thank Author of Arka for one thing: he has inspired me to start a little bit of work on the expanded Himmaswa dictionary that I had always been meaning to get around to. I intend it to be a both a character dictionary and word dictionary. If I could eventually put it online I would like to, but it will take a long time to make. If I ever got it online, every word and every character would be a link to its own entry.

Sample:
Entry for a word:


Entry for a character:


Entry for a character that also serves as a semantic radical:


Entry for a semantic primitive:

[clawgrip]

I kind of decided to scrap that idea a bit since it will take too long, and instead I've decided to make a slightly more traditional dictionary that still has a fair amount of information (example sentences, etymology). I have only made a little bit so far, but I would appreciate it if people could tell me what they think. Is there anything outstandingly good or bad about it? Please let me know!

dictionary WIP (pdf)

[Astraios]

Example sentences definitely should be in-script...

[Herr Dunkel]

Example sentences definitely should be in-script...

[ol bofosh]

I've just got to :-OOO at the number of characters!

[clawgrip]

I am working on adding the script for all the example sentences. I'm going to have to create 26 new characters just to do that!

[Herr Dunkel]

How the hell did you get started, that's what I wanna know.
How do you exactly choose where to divide the semantic space for the scripties?

[clawgrip]

My greatest advantage in creating this script is also my greatest curse. Because I have relatively extensive knowledge of kanji, I have kind of a natural feel for how a logographic script works. Unfortunately, because I only really understand the subtleties of this one logographic script, I was destined to relex some of the character-building methods, which I have done. I employ certain techniques that don't really exist in Chinese characters, but for the most part, they work the same way. I have lived to accept it, and just go on creating it, because, frankly, I enjoy it.

I started it in 1998, writing the characters with a blunt-tipped woodless pencil. I don't recall exactly how I came up with the original character forms. Nevertheless, at the time, I didn't have the knowledge to create a logographic script or an analytic language that wasn't really boring and stupid, so I gave up, having made only maybe 30 or so characters. I left the language on the back burner though, hoping to return to it someday, which I did. The first thing I did with the script was create all the characters in Adobe Illustrator, and then went from there. Though I had a general idea for the visual style of the characters in my head, this style took shape and became set after I created several more characters. Now every character is based exactly on the style I developed.

Any characters that are not pictographs contain at least one semantic element, combined with either a phonetic complement or another semantic element. I've divided the constituents into three groups that function somewhat differently: semantic primitives, semantic radicals, and phonetic complements.

-Semantic primitives are simple shapes that represent basic meanings but are not themselves independent characters. Several of them may appear anywhere within another character.

-Semantic radicals are generally actual characters, often simplified, that carry a basic semantic idea. These generally have a fixed location when they appear in other characters, though some occasionally appear in unexpected places.

-Phonetic complements generally have no fixed position, and will appear wherever the semantic radical and/or semantic primitive(s) have left space. The phonetic complements most often share an initial consonant sound and first basic vowel (though the vowels of Himmaswa are not really the same as in the older language when the characters are supposed to have been designed). Others simply indicate the initial consonant cluster with no vowel information. A third kind incorporates as a phonetic radical an entire character with a similar sound. This last method is the primary way it is done in Chinese.

[Savi]

I kind of decided to scrap that idea a bit since it will take too long, and instead I've decided to make a slightly more traditional dictionary that still has a fair amount of information (example sentences, etymology). I have only made a little bit so far, but I would appreciate it if people could tell me what they think. Is there anything outstandingly good or bad about it? Please let me know!

dictionary WIP (pdf)

I personally think your dictionary looks rather good - close to what I would expect from a real-world dictionary in fact. Now that you have a logographic script, you could of course also order the words according to radicals instead of romanisation, but that's just an aesthetic thing. Also, as others have said, amazing script :O

[clawgrip]

Example sentences definitely should be in-script...

I have taken your advice and updated it:
dictionary WIP updated (pdf)

[clawgrip]

I've started writing a grammatical outline at http://kneequickie.com/kq/Himmaswa

[clawgrip]

I've finally compiled a list of all the permissible initial consonant clusters in Himmaswa. Until now these rules were basically only in my head, but looking at my dictionary it seems I was surprisingly consistent. I found only one word that violated this chart, and have altered it to conform. Several of these clusters don't actually appear in any words yet, particularly with /w/ and /y/ in C2 position, which is comparatively rare.

[clawgrip]

Some updates on Modals and sentence-final discourse particles

Modals
Himmaswa has four main modal verbs to indicate the estimated likelihood of potential events. They are as follows:

- borm: Indicates that an event or state has the potential to be true, but is not actually believed to be so within the specified timeframe. Equivalent to 'can'.
- ach: Indicates that an event or state has the potential to occur, but the actual occurrence of this event or state is based on speculation and can thus be neither confirmed nor denied. Equivalent to 'may'.
- klaang: Epistemic mood. Indicates an event or state that is considered to have a high likelihood of being true, based on the knowledge, desires, or motivations of the speaker. Also used to indicate suggestions, intentions, and requests. See below for more information.
- flet: Evidential mood. Indicates an event or state that is considered to have a high likelihood of being true, based on the evidence at hand.

- Peen dar borm. - The child can walk.
- Peen ach dar. - The child may walk/may have walked/may be walking.
- Peen dar klaang. - I believe the child walked/is walking/will walk.
- Peen flet dar. - It seems the child walked/is walking/is going to walk.


Sentence-final discourse particles
Himmaswa makes fairly extensive use of sentence-final particles, and I recently sat down and organized them, coming up with three classes based on their uses. I also defined to some extent how some of them can interact with certain verbs. I will list them here and explain how they work.

Every noun and verb phrase in Himmaswa has the potential to carry a phrase-final particle of some kind, but mid-sentence particle use is highly restricted. The following particles are largely restricted to the particle position at the end of the entire sentence. They can be divided into three broad groups: particles of request, particles of suggestion, and particles of affirmation.

Particles of request
Particles of requests are used to induce a specific change in action or behaviour that is directly beneficial to the speaker. There are seven basic particles of request, with some additional variations. There are basic particles for direct requests for information, i.e. question particles and particles to request elaboration, and particles to appeal for sympathy or understanding.

- lok: Standard, neutral question tag for polar questions.
- lok huoo: Question tag for polar questions; the addition of huoo signals a higher degree of uncertainty regarding the proposition.
- ayt: Standard, neutral question tag for content questions. It actually forms a compound with the interrogative pronoun, which, accordingly, always occurs at the end of the sentence.
- deu: Signals one's focus on the details of the proposition. In questions, this functions as an entreaty for further description or explanation and signals one's interest.
- choa cheung: Expresses one's intent to encourage the addressee to explain or elaborate on an unclear point. May be used either to signal one's lack of complete knowledge, or a mistake in the addressee's reasoning. May also be used rhetorically: see affirmation particles below.
- gor, gaa: Polite softener. Signals one's recognition of placing the addressee in some sort of difficult or uncomfortable position and a request for accomodation/lenience/understanding/etc.. Used especially in requests and apologies. The alternative pronunciation gaa may be used to show increased hesitation and respect.
- jiagor: Used to make formal, polite requests. *Jiagaa is not permitted.
- yang: Expresses a request for accommodation or understanding from the addressee by making a subtle appeal for solidarity and fellowship. This may also be used as a particle of suggestion; see below.


Particles of suggestion
Particles of suggestion are used to induce a change in action or behaviour on the part of the addressee. The suggestion particles in standard Himmaswa generally urge sympathy, attention, or acquiescence. While the resulting state of the addressee may be beneficial to the speaker in some way, the benefits are indirect.

- bo: Expresses a subtle urging for the addressee to acknowledge to the importance or truthfulness of one's proposition. Generally used with the intention of changing the addressee's opinion regarding the subject of the statement. May also be used as a particle of affirmation; see below.
- choo: Hortative; This indicates one's strong encouragement or discouragement regarding a proposition related to the addressee.
- choo yang: Similar to choo in that it indicates encouragement or discouragement regarding a proposition related to the addressee, but the addition of yang adds subtlety, making the expression less forceful.
- oa: Draws the addressee's attention in some way. Used variously to attract someone or involve the listener in the conversation, to draw attention to an important word or phrase that shouldn't be missed. This is the only sentence-final particle that also frequently occurs in the middle of sentences, and it is also often used as an interjection.
- yang: Expresses a request for accommodation and acquiescence from the addressee regarding the proposition by making a subtle appeal for solidarity and fellowship. This may also be used as a particle of request; see above.


Particles of affirmation
Particles of affirmation lack any specific intent to induce changes in action or behaviour of the addressee. Their function is mainly to convey some sort of factuality. There are particles that are used to assert the truthfulness of a statement, and more to convey one's feelings or opinions regarding the statement being made.

- bo: When used in statements that are inherently unknowable, this expresses an assertion that one truly believes the statement is the best possible guess.
- choa cheung: Rhetorically signals one's lack of complete knowledge and a wish to understand.
- daak: Signals one's belief of a potential lack of essential information or a faulty understanding on the part of the addressee.
- deu: Signals one's focus on the details of the proposition. In statements, it takes on a matter-of-fact tone. Can be used either to defend one's position when challenged, or when one is making a statement the addressee is not expected to know. In this sense it differs from daak in that it tends to emphasize one's superiority of knowledge over the addressee, and can be abrupt or rude. May also be used as a particle of request; see above.
- geut: Signals one's annoyance or disapproval. May be used to show contempt or condemnation either toward the addressee, oneself, or a third party.
- goy: Expresses confirmation, acknowledgement, or concession.
- goy bo: Signals a more reluctant concession or acknowledgement than goy alone.
- leut: Signals one's incredulity or surprise concerning a proposition. It is often, but not always used with a negative implication.
- mee: Signals one's amazement or wonder. This typically, but not always, occurs for things of which one approves.
- teuol: Used to show irritation after having made a mistake, or in response to another's mistake. Typically only used informally. May be combined with geut or leut.

Sentence-final particles are sometimes tied to the use of certain verbs. For example, the verb aapdoan 'to have a hunch or gut feeling' is almost always paired in use with the particle bo.

Bgeychaot aapdoan jgout wneung bo.
today have.a.hunch rain fall 'bo'
I have a feeling it's going to rain today.

As mentioned above, the epistemic modal klaang has a variety of uses, including inferences, suggestions, and intentions, and the use of sentence-final particles clarifies the intended meaning.


Tui keuong klaang deu.
3 go EPIS 'deu'
He will go (I intend to force him if necessary).


Tui keuong klaang choo.
3 go EPIS 'choo'
I really think he should go. (I urge you to make/let him go).


Tui keuong klaang leut.
3 go EPIS 'leut'
It's hard for me to believe, but it seems that he is going/has gone (and I wish he weren't/hadn't).


Tui keuong klaang daak.
3 go EPIS 'daak'
He must be going /have gone (you don't seem to realize/acknowledge this)

I haven't fully determined how extensive the interaction of particles and verbs, especially modals, will be. If anyone has any suggestions for how the particles and modals could interact in an interesting way, I wouldn't mind hearing. Or if anyone else has a language with discourse particles that lack specific lexical meaning, I would like to hear about how yours works.

[clawgrip]

The script now has 700 characters! I wonder how far I can get with this.

[clawgrip]

Somehow during the development of Himmaswa, it managed to build up three distinct roots for "change/be different" and four for "make/produce". Not only that, but there were several compounds that employed these roots in various combinations. I was starting to get confused as to the exact meaning of them all, so I finally sat down and sorted them out definitively.

MAKE
"create" (such as create; make; generate; fashion):
Dynamic : kang
Perfective : wau

"create through removal" (such as carve; chisel; whittle; hew; chip):
Dynamic : mua

"create through addition" (such as build; assemble; arrange; fabricate; manufacture):
Dynamic : nglooay
Perfective : steak

"create large/significant thing" (such as erect; construct; build; mount; raise; set up; develop):
Dynamic : kanglooay

"create complex (especially intangible) thing" (such as arrange; develop; set up; install; establish; found; organize):
Dynamic : kangmua
Perfective : kangwau

CHANGE
"change" (such as change; alter; modify):
Transitive dynamic : kiap
Transitive perfective : jungkiap
Stative : knooaynkiap

"change completely" (such as transform; mutate; metamorphose; transmute):
Transitive dynamic : kiapgyou
Transitive perfective : fkaiykiap
Stative : knooayntgai

"be separate/distinct" (such as be separate; be distinct; be disassociated; be special):
Stative : knooayn

"be dissimilar/unlike" (such as be dissimilar; be unlike; be disparate; be contrary; be divergent; be unequal; be in variance with; be mismatched):
Stative : tgai

This may not be so interesting, but anyway, I'm glad I have more or less sorted these out. I'll have to think more about how their figurative distinctions as well.

[Astraios]

steak

For some reason I found this hilarious.

[clawgrip]

I can't remember anymore if I did that on purpose or not. Nevertheless, it's pronounced [stʰɛə̯k̚].

[Moanaka]

This is really cool. The script is awesome. I like how you've managed to give it a unique visual feel rather than making it look like a kanji ripoff. I think the vowel system is pretty cool too. I like how breathy front vowels are followed by [C]. I haven't looked at the grammar yet but I'm intrigued because I feel like I don't see many languages that are heavily analytic, and I like analytic languages (although I kinda dropped out of 'the conlanging community' so I wouldn't really know).

[Haplogy]

700 characters already. This truly is magnificent.

Also, can we get a somewhat larger text in Himmaswa?
Like something that could be the first page of a book, or something?

I'd also like to see the phonetic script, fkeumgerswa, and a higher resolution pic of all the characters.

[clawgrip]

This is really cool. The script is awesome. I like how you've managed to give it a unique visual feel rather than making it look like a kanji ripoff. I think the vowel system is pretty cool too. I like how breathy front vowels are followed by [C]. I haven't looked at the grammar yet but I'm intrigued because I feel like I don't see many languages that are heavily analytic, and I like analytic languages (although I kinda dropped out of 'the conlanging community' so I wouldn't really know).

Thanks. I think part of what made it distinctive was that the earliest characters were created by hand using a thick, woodless pencil. Writing with this produced bold, round strokes, something which is not really found in Chinese, since it's a little difficult to do tight curves with a brush. I also settled on a limited inventory of permissible strokes which gives the characters unity.

If you're interested in a brief outline of the grammar, here it is:
Sentence structure: topic-prominent TSVO; heavily (but not entirely) head-initial; topic-fronting frequently produces what appears to be OV or OSV, among other patterns. The only necessary constituents for a clause are topic and verb (as a general rule). Topic and subject are generally unmarked and often grammatically indistinguishable, but there are ways to disambiguate if context is insufficient.
Relative clauses: Relative clauses follow the noun they modify. The language can indicate, but generally does not require, differentiation between relative clauses and other subordinate clauses.
TAM: The language employs auxiliary verbs for aspect, mood, and negation, but has no specific way of indicating tense* or voice. The language has three basic aspects: dynamic, perfect, and stative; each verb root has an inherent aspect that governs which aspectual auxiliaries may be used with it. Sometimes, changes in aspect can be accomplished by employing an aspectually different but semantically similar root, instead of using an auxiliary verb. There are a number of other more specific aspects as well as several moods that must be indicated by auxiliaries.
*the perfect auxiliary is effectively a past tense when used with stative verbs.
transitivity: Verb roots are inherently either transitive or intransitive, but any transitive verb can be employed as an intransitive, often without being explicitly indicated. When, however, a transitive verb is explicitly used intransitively with intransitive markers, the nature of the markers requires indication of whether the action of the verb is done intentionally or not.
Parts of Speech: The standard parts of speech are noun, verb, conjunction, sentence-final particle, interjection. Equivalents to adjectives and adverbs are stative verbs, and equivalents to prepositions are verbs of various aspects. Verbs may be employed as nouns without modification, though sentence structure will usually make it clear that the verb is filling a nominal role. Most prepositional verbs are almost always used as prepositions, but they still retain the ability to stand as the sole verb of a main clause.
Sentence-final particles: The language employs a variety of sentence-final particles that indicate pragmatic relationships between the speaker and listener.

As you can see, I have purposely pushed ambiguity and context-dependency almost as far as I can go.

700 characters already. This truly is magnificent.

Also, can we get a somewhat larger text in Himmaswa?
Like something that could be the first page of a book, or something?

I will work on writing some historical document or something. I often use the language in the conlang fluency thread, but I have actually written shockingly few in-universe texts.

I'd also like to see the phonetic script, fkeumgerswa, and a higher resolution pic of all the characters.

I guess I can post Fkeumgerswa, but it is almost embarrassing, because it's unabashedly a Southeast Asian script. Overall it's extremely similar in appearance to Thai and Khmer, though the individual letterforms are often quite different. As I said, I designed it over ten years ago when I didn't care much about realism in this conworld. I have since retconned a fake Brahmi-like script (Kwamenese script) that has purposely different letter forms from the real-world Brahmi, so that I can more or less handwave the existence of this script and another clearly Indian-based script (Fu script) used in a nearby country. I have also somehow managed to jam an unrelated but structurally similar script (Kadabach script) that I invented many, many years ago into this Kwamenese family. I have even designed a two new scripts (Oksmeswa script and another, unnamed script) based on this Kwamenese family.