2L Monumental Style Conscript: Vines

[Anguipes]

Well, these are really hard to distinguish. Lots of room for misinterpretation!

To critisize a little, I think that your snakes are too similar to one another, and the hood of the cobra isn't clear enough. I also think that your foxes look too much like wolves.

Yes, and I am not at all happy about that. I'll see what I can do. Any suggestions, anyone? Right now the best way to distinguish the most similar dogs is to look at ears (pointed vs rounded, which will be made more obvious in stylisation) and tails. I find the snakes easier to distinguish, but maybe that's because I drew them and I know what I'm looking for. Which ones are particularly hard to tell apart?

I was just gonna ask if there was gonna be colored glyphs, like the Egyptians and Mayans/Aztecs used to do? And if so, will there be a specific color scheme, i.e. will you limit yourself to a set of specific hues?

There would be a fixed, formalised colour scheme, yes, probably based on the Second Language colour terms: white/silver, grey, metallic red, copper, gold, metallic green, metallic blue, metallic purple, metallic black, red, orange/brown, yellow, green, blue, purple, black.

[maıráí]

Perhaps you could add some variation in the paws and eyes. Maybe make some paws fatter and shorter, and some eyes bigger or rounder or etc.

[Nortaneous]

Well, these are really hard to distinguish. Lots of room for misinterpretation!

To critisize a little, I think that your snakes are too similar to one another, and the hood of the cobra isn't clear enough. I also think that your foxes look too much like wolves.

Yes, and I am not at all happy about that. I'll see what I can do. Any suggestions, anyone?

Exaggerate head differences. That's the most noticeable part, for me, and the dogs' heads all have slight but difficult to notice variations.

[Anguipes]

Dogs 2.0:

I've not gone overboard with changing things, but hopefully the foxes look more fox-y now, and the major offenders for similarity are more easily distinguished. Any better?


Here's some variations on the cobra hood. I don't really want to do a high arching hood over the head, because cobra hoods don't actually do that.

[clawgrip]

I guess you realize thylacine is actually a marsupial, not a canine, right?

[patiku]

I don't really want to do a high arching hood over the head, because cobra hoods don't actually do that.

so you've been striving for accuracy with these glyphs? I have some bad news regarding the size of the dogs' heads if that is the case...

[Anguipes]

I guess you realize thylacine is actually a marsupial, not a canine, right?

Neither are hyenas and aardwolves. For that matter, slowworms aren't snakes, lobsters aren't arachnids, raccoons aren't felines, and I don't even know where to start with the "bears"...

so you've been striving for accuracy with these glyphs? I have some bad news regarding the size of the dogs' heads if that is the case...

I just knew some smug git would bring this up.

[clawgrip]

Fair enough. I didn't mean it as a criticism, just mentioning in. Anyway I think the dogs look pretty good.

[R.Rusanov]

Maybe I'm too Eurocentric, but I have no idea what you're saying

EDIT: Though when I think about it, it is an western trait to take naturalistic, semi-chaotic systems and try to give them order:

In the later half of the 12th century, the German priest Helmold described in his work Chronica Slavorum, beliefs and customs of several West Slavic tribes who were still polytheists at the time. Amongst other things, he stated that: The Slavs, they say, have one peculiar custom: during feasts, they pass a goblet amongst them in circle, for purpose not to praise, but rather to curse in the names of gods, good and evil, for every good thing praising a good god, and for every bad thing cursing an evil god. This god of woe in their language is called Diabolous (*in Latin) or Zherneboh, meaning black god.

On the basis of this inscription, many modern mythographers assumed that, if the evil god was Czernobog, the Black God, then the good god should be Belobog or the White God. However, the name of Belobog is not mentioned by Helmold anyhere in his Chronica, nor is it ever mentioned in any of the historic sources that describe the gods of any Slavic tribe or nation. Additionally, the inscription quoted above is more likely Helmold's own interpretation than an accurate description of Slavic pre-monotheistic beliefs: Helmold, being German, did not know the language of Slavs, and being a Christian priest, did not have much, if any, contact with the polytheists themselves

I guess more introverted, rational societies like the Chinese and Europeans naturally prefer ordered systems while more extroverted, emotional societies don't.

[Qwynegold]

I would suggest working more with the animals' body shapes. Maybe the foxes' proportions could be changed to make them look smaller than the wolves, and their bodies and heads need to be more slender. For the cobra I suggest changing the angle the hood is viewed from; so you could make the hood seen more from the front, even if the rest of the head is in profile. Just some thoughts. :/

[Anguipes]

Some fox variants. Centre (3) is a dhole, for comparison. 1: original, 2: original head, slimmer body, 4: exaggerated head, slimmer body, 5: exaggerated head, original body.

stuff

I am honestly not sure if this is in the right thread or not.

[Hallow XIII]

Two. You want number two.

[patiku]

I just knew some smug git would bring this up.

*bows*

[anacharis]

The fennec and the njr̄vg wolf are still too similar, imho- apart from the jawline, they only really differ in proportion, while all of your other canid glyphs have at least a distinctive combination of patterns. Of course, neither animal actually has particularly distinctive patterning in real life, so yeah.

Only thing I can think of is to use the fennec's ears as their major distinguishing feature- I'd make them even bigger, emphasize the pointed, sweeping profile they take on in certain positions, and have them in a conventionalized pose different from the other canids- either held forward, like this, or back, like this, this, or this.

[Anguipes]

The fennec and the njr̄vg wolf are still too similar, imho- apart from the jawline, they only really differ in proportion, while all of your other canid glyphs have at least a distinctive combination of patterns. Of course, neither animal actually has particularly distinctive patterning in real life, so yeah.

Only thing I can think of is to use the fennec's ears as their major distinguishing feature- I'd make them even bigger, emphasize the pointed, sweeping profile they take on in certain positions, and have them in a conventionalized pose different from the other canids- either held forward, like this, or back, like this, this, or this.

Thanks for the suggestion and the images. The current (unpublished) version of the dogs gives the fennec, along with the two foxes, the slender body I discussed above, but making the ears more distinct is good.

I'm also about half way through the reptiles/amphibians, so they'll be coming soon-ish.

[Anguipes]

Not happy with this, but what the hell. Stupid heat makes me too tired.



qr̀t - Reptiles


gv́p - Gliding Lizard (Kinesis)


qvr̀p - Frog (Metamorphosis)
Frogs and toads. (images for this and crocodile are in the wrong order, oops)


qvj̄p - Crocodile (Crisis)
Crocodilians.


qvv́rp - Anole (Anthesis)
Represented by a frill-necked lizard, includes anoles and other lizards with extendible neck frills/dewlaps etc.


qrj̀rp - Salamander (Genesis)
Land-dwelling salamanders/newts.


qrv̄jp - Gecko (Nemesis)


qrŕjp - Skink (Synthesis)
Small lizards with poorly defined neck.


qjr̀vt - Chameleon (Telesis)
Represented by a chameleon, includes casquehead lizards.


qjj̄vt - Monitor (Analysis)


qjj̄vt - Gila monster (Ascesis)
Lizards with round bumpy scales, inc. beaded lizard,


qjv́t - Spiny Lizard (Physis)
Represented by a Girdled Armadillo lizard, includes lizards with spiny and/or plate-like scales (bearded dragon, shingleback skink, horned lizard etc.)


qv́jt - Iguanal (Noesis)


fr̀jt - Newt (Gnosis)
Aquatic salamanders/newts.


fr̄vk - Turtle (Stasis)
Represented by a sea turtle, includes tortoises, terrapins etc.

[kanejam]

These are awesome! I like the slimmer body of the fox, but I also don't mind the smaller head.

The reptiles are also cool, but I'm not sold on the tongues from the frog and chameleon. Also I would have liked to have seen the turtles and tortoises split up, but that's just because I like turtles and tortoises so much! I do like how the geckos and skinks and things look like they're dancing (definitely not a criticism)

[ZMoring]

If I remember correctly, 2 weeks of inactivity results in deletion? I think? I remember hearing that. So this is me, giving it some activity so it doesn't go bye-bye.

Because this script is awesome and I don't want it to disappear.

[Hallow XIII]

Well that is nice of you, but since C&C doesn't get pruned it is also superfluous.

That is the reason, after all, why there are separate C&CQ and Ephemera forums.

[ZMoring]

Well that is nice of you, but since C&C doesn't get pruned it is also superfluous.

That is the reason, after all, why there are separate C&CQ and Ephemera forums.

Ah. I didn't know that. I guess, knowing that, its glaringly obvious, but it didn't occur to me for some reason. Oh well.

[Drydic]

To be fair, that is a somewhat recent change. Back in the day only L&L was no-prune (this was before L&L Museum existed).

[Anguipes]

Thanks, but yeah, no need to bump now this has been moved to C&C. Honestly I'm surprised by the sustained interest, though it's great, considering that this isn't even a script yet, just large collection of crappy sketches. Speaking of which...

This group is called rodents, but (in Earth-biology, at least) it's mostly a mix of true rodents, various insectivora and some marsupials.



sjr̀ʔ - Rodents


frj̄rk - Squirrel (Kinesis)
Represented by a red squirel, includes squirrels, chipmunks, marmots, sugar gliders etc.


frv́k - Hamster (Metamorphosis)
Short-tailed, mouse-like rodents, including hamsters and lemmings.


fjr̀k - Shrew (Crisis)
Shrews, shrew-moles, true moles, and other similar animals.


fjj̄k - Hare (Anthesis)
Represented by a hare, includes rabbits, viscachas and maras.


fjŕvʔ - Wombat (Genesis)
Represented by a wombat, includes pocket gophers.


svj̀vʔ - Rat (Nemesis)
Long-tail rat- or mouse-like animals, including rats, mice, gerbils, voles etc.


svv̄rʔ - Beaver (Synthesis)
Represented by a beaver, includes muskrats.


svj́rʔ - Kangaroo (Telesis)
Represented by a kangaroo, includes wallabies, kangaroo mice, jerboa and similar.


sv̀jʔ - Possum (Analysis)
Represented by a Virginia Opposum, includes possums and opossums.


sr̄jʔ - Hedgehog (Ascesis)
Represented by a hedgehog, includes porcupines and echidnas.


sv́ʔ - Blesmol (Physis)
Represented by a Damaraland mole rat, includes blesmols, marsupial moles and blind mole rats.


sjj̄ʔ - Cavy (Noesis)
Represented by a capybara, includes cavies.


sjv́v - Desman (Gnosis)
*

xvr̀v - Armadillo (Stasis)
Represented by an armadillo, includes the pangolin.


*Every time I get depressed about not being able to do crazy speculative biology (yet), something like the desman turns up. Echolocating aquatic moles with trunks ending in a duck-bill shape? I couldn't make that shit up.

[Qwynegold]

Some fox variants. Centre (3) is a dhole, for comparison. 1: original, 2: original head, slimmer body, 4: exaggerated head, slimmer body, 5: exaggerated head, original body.

Hmm, I think #5 might be best. Hmm, but now that the head's been downscaled in the vertical axis, it's more wolflike again. It's hard to tell which is best without comparing them side to side with the other canines. However, I would suggest making its ear smaller/different. Maybe the two lines at the right, that make the ear's right side, should not go so far down?

Not happy with this, but what the hell. Stupid heat makes me too tired.

Lol, awsome tongues! My suggestions again:
You should show the gecko's distinctive fingers and toes.
The skink should have a fatter body, smaller limbs, and a shorter, thicker tail. Or at least that's the image of a skink in my head. :/

The rabbit is perfect! But I think the rat's proportions are a little off. The head is too big, the body too slender, and the hip area too small.

[Anguipes]

Hmm, I seem to have lost a couple of details, like the beaver's ear, somewhere along the line.

You should show the gecko's distinctive fingers and toes.

I tried. Kinda. I've been going with low-detail limbs and I'm not entirely sure how much more I can show without breaking too much out of style or making it too exaggerated. I'll have an experiment though.

the skink should have a fatter body, smaller limbs, and a shorter, thicker tail. Or at least that's the image of a skink in my head.

As far as I'm aware (I'm no herpetologist, I could be very wrong) is that type of skink, like a blue-tongued, is atypical, while the body-shape I had in mind and was referencing looks to a greater or lesser extent like a glass snake with legs stuck on (e.g. genus Ctenotus, Plestiodon, Trachylepis). That doesn't I'm entirely happy with how the glyph looks, mind you.

But I think the rat's proportions are a little off. The head is too big, the body too slender, and the hip area too small.

The glyph is actually referenced from a mouse (hence larger ears and eyes, blunter muzzle etc.), which I should have noted. You're right that it's probably too slim though. I made it earlier in the sequence, before I decided a lot of the rodents looked better tubby.


I really need to get some stuff up about the actual language. This project is all a massive excuse not to work on writing up any grammar.

[kanejam]

Honestly I'm surprised by the sustained interest, though it's great, considering that this isn't even a script yet, just large collection of crappy sketches.

You mean awesome sketches! These really are fantastic and if they somehow come to be used as a script for a fully fledged conlang then it will be mind blowing!!

And I agree with the skinks, they tend to have slender heads, bodies and digits, whereas geckos have wide heads etc.