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Nortpad (NP: Sengödańra)
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Author:  Nortaneous [ Wed May 09, 2018 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nortpad (NP: Sengödańra)

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Nortaneous wrote:
Here is a new orthography for Zzyxwqnp.

It is possible to analyze Zzyxwqnp as having only four vowels, /a ə i u/, written in the conventional orthography a z y v. The other vowels, q e o i u, may be analyzed /wa yə wə yi wu/.

This analysis provides a convenient explanation for the common dialectal merger of z into o after labials: labials excrete /w/ when they precede /a/. In dialects where wz and wo, and yz and ye, remain distinct, however, it doesn't work.

There are a few other contrasts that it has trouble with:
- se sz xe may be analyzed as /ʂjə sə sjə/, rather than /se sə ɕe/.
- It is necessary to retain the alveolar affricates, because cy /tsi/ contrasts with chy /ti/.
- Postalveolars must be allophones of alveolars rather than velars, because ky /ki/ contrasts with chy /ti/.

/p b m t d n ts dz ʈ ɖ k g/ <p b m t d n c z ṭ ḍ k g>
/f s ʂ x/ <f s x h>
/w l j/ <w l y>
/a ə ɿ ʮ/ <a e i u>
[ɒ e o i u] <wa ye we yi wu>
/~/ -n

/tɕī tsz̩̀ kè wó mɒ̄ɴ jē wɒ́ tɕē fú lè sz̩̀ tɒ̄dzz̩̀ kókè mḿ̩ dzẑ̩/
tyi cì kyè wé man ye wá tye fwú lyè sì twazì kwékyè ḿ zî

/dâtâ wū tɕì jé kùɴ ʈàɴ ⁿdʑɿ̄ wɒ̀ kə̀ fʮ̂tsɿ̀ jē ⁿdà/
dâtâ wu tyì yé kwùn ṭàn ni wà kè fûtì ye dà

/wɒ̀ tɕî wɒ̄ kə́ jē ⁿbɒ́ wɒ̄ mɒ̄ɴ lū wɒ̄tsɿ̀ kʮ̂ mɒ̄ɴ/
wà tî wa ké ye má wa man lo wacì kû man

In Zzyxwqnp, zz only appears in the syllable zzy, and has no obvious diachronic origin. It appears, however, in the name of the language and the associated empire. This is maybe a problem.

zz looks like an allophone of dd, cf. ti di > cy, Nti > zy. So this is potentially regular. But the regular outcome of ni is jjy -- n palatalized before i, but for whatever reason t d didn't until after frication.

Solution: lower-class sociolects palatalized n before i at some point. We would then expect to see vacillation between jjy (prole) and zzy (aristo), as well as between ny (prole) and n (aristo). t d didn't palatalize because there were already ts\ dz\ even as far back as V'eng.

Also, aristo dialects have four vowels (pz > po, etc.); prole dialects have more. Cf. Mandarin.

Author:  Nortaneous [ Tue May 15, 2018 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nortpad (NP: Sengödańra)

It would probably be wise to at some point flesh out Narngic. Here is Narng:

i  y  u
ei øy ou
e  ø  o
ɛ     ɔ
æa a  oɒ

There was presumably a major vowel shift at some point, but most of these are from umlaut. A digression on umlaut follows. (Vowels in caps are cover symbols for both vowels of their height.)

Vynyi and Hluic have only a$U U$a > ə.
The rest of Vengic has a$U > O, O$U U$a > Ʊ.

It is possible that Vynyi is not divergent here from Vengic, if a$U resulted in Ɔ, which then merged with O in main Vengic and with Ʊ in Vynyi. Possibly Hluic did the same thing. There may or may not be subtle accentual differences between Vengic and Hluic. Maybe the Ɔ/O merger is incomplete somewhere. Romance-style isoglosses??? the mind boggles

Anyway. Narng has much more in-depth umlaut, involving not only height but also frontness. The details will be worked out later. It also has front rounded vowels, which is why Rengni also has them.


p t tʃ k   ʔ
b d
w z
f s ʃ  x ħ h
m n    ŋ

Narng shares a few features of the characteristic Rengni voiced coronal shift. Specifically, it fortites *j to /dʒ/, which pushed *z /dʒ/ into /d/. Unlike in Rengni, however, *d did not subsequently become /l/, because there was one already. It is from *r, the original *r having merged with *g (cf. V'eng, in which *r merges with *ɣ)... as /ħ/. Gheada is recent, however, and has not spread to Rengni.

*s is probably shifted somewhere else and replaced by the reflex of *c, and the postalveolars are probably only in Rengni loans.

There are exceptions to some of these sound changes -- this isn't Polynesian -- but they will be fleshed out later.

It is possible that the voicing distinction has been transmuted into either tone or something else. Seeing as how there are front rounded vowels, there is maybe some sort of Adjarian's Law deal. Or maybe this is best saved for elsewhere in Narngic.

Author:  Nortaneous [ Wed May 16, 2018 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nortpad (NP: Sengödańra)

It would probably also be wise to describe the differences between the branches, because there is currently not a whole lot distinguishing at least Vengic from Hluic.

Proto-Macro-Vengic had a phoneme *N, possibly a palatal nasal or a nasalized palatal approximant. Conveniently, this appears in the 1PL.EXCL *ngakoNu.

In V'eng, it is reflected initially as /mj/ before *o *u, otherwise /dr/; in codas, it merges with /dʒ/. The 1PL.EXCL is nkoz.

In Vynyi, however, it conditions rhoticity on the following vowel: gunyur.

In Hlu, it merges unconditionally with *r, as is seen in Bor Hlu ⁿgor. Possibly it had an unconditional shift to *ⁿr at some point?

(One sound change that Hluic has and Vengic does not is *a > o / K_K, but this happened before the loss of long vowels and the 1PL.INCL is *ngaako so it isn't useful here. Long vowels are in fact lost everywhere... except Vynyi, and possibly somewhere in Zotic and/or Whatic.)

In Narngic, it merges with *j but conditions nasality on adjacent vowels. Narng does not preserve nasality, however.

Author:  Nortaneous [ Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nortpad (NP: Sengödańra)


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