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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:34 pm 
Sumerul
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Dzere kharelelis bgulim dqumarzu da tuxorchi.
[dzere kʰarelelis bguɫim dʁumarzu da tuχortʃi]
dzere khar-eli-eli-s bgul-i da-q-u-marzu da t-u-xor-0-chi


Bguli umkharye dzerem dabqamdze da nja.
[bguɫi uŋkʰarje dzerem dabʁamdze da ndʒa]
bgul-i um-khar-ye dzere-m da-q-ba-mdze da nju-a-0


Cor. Cor. Cor. Cor. Cor. Cor. Cor.
[tsor]
cor


todo: redo possession structures to be copula + is at? / verb 'be at'

also old gehui sig
Cañ ɗe ǂhiip n|ay hwaa hwaa yaʔ ḷur.
N|ay ŋa xɛ ŋwe ŋa ǂhiip ɨx Cañ.
Khwɨ. Khwɨ. Khwɨ. Khwɨ. Khwɨ. Khwɨ. Khwɨ.

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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:45 pm 
Avisaru
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What's the deal with those three sentences?

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Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:18 pm 
Smeric
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It's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Xian ... Kill_Stele


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:50 am 
Sumerul
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it's that, which became a running joke Elsewhere and ended up here because Im a fat gay and I want to go to Ice Hell ftw.

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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:41 pm 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:09 am 
Sumerul
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Atelic, perfective, imperfective -- though I'd probably call them 'incomplete', 'complete', and 'regular' for the purposes of this conlang. Atelic imperfective will probably exist, though it'd need some sort of circumlocution.

They aren't marked on the topic; they're marked on the absolutive -- so the object in transitive sentences. As for diachronic justification: prepositional case by itself can have a locative meaning, and my dialect of English has similarly constructed telicity-like marking on a few verbs, like "eating" vs. "eating on". (That's not atelicity in the second example so much as an... attenuative? diminutive? and Wikipedia calls it an aspect but it's orthogonal to tense/aspect distinctions... but it's close enough that I'm going to use it as justification for the construction here.)

Different cases because the absolutive can be either nominative or accusative, and some verbs take genitive subjects/objects though I haven't worked that out yet.

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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:22 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:22 am 
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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:44 am 
Sumerul
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I think I forgot to mention that the nasals in this act unexpectedly: /m n/ can appear before any consonant, but /m/ assimilates to the POA of a following velar/uvular consonant -- so /mp mt mts mtS mk mq/ [mp mt mts mtS Nk N\q/ -- and /n/ never assimilates.

Also I'm not sure if I want a dark/light l contrast -- it'll be marginal if it exists but I'll work it out as the language develops.

Stress is probably penultimate but that's what I always end up doing in every single one of my conlangs so I might change it to initial, or have it vary based on syllable weight or location of the aspiration.

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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:31 pm 
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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:32 am 
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More derivational affixes.

-nux- causative:
Zha bguls qarinuxs.

I am making the man eat.

-mod- causative:
Zha tkemabs npxotsmod.

I did not sink the ship.

-lVch(V)- benefactive: (PRE)
Bgul akhis shiche tkrumilich.

The man is building a house for the snake.

-ri- reflexive: (ACC)
Shichis qaliris.

The snake is eating itself.
Note the r...r - l...r dissimilation. l...l sequences dissimilate to r...l. Dissimilation does not occur if it would produce another sequence requiring dissimilation -- see kharelelis. r always dissimilates to dark l, even when surrounding vowels would predict light l. This distinction is not written.

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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:20 pm 
Avisaru
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I think what kodé was getting at as that generally telicity is not morphological but lexical. Certain verbal concepts cannot conceivably be made to not be atelic or vice versa.

Like say a concept like "know" is purely telic. As soon as you try to move it into atelic range semantically, it's not the same thing anymore. It could become "teach" or "learn" depending but neither is the same thing as "know".

Note how "walk home" is telic (passes the telicity test of adding "in an hour" after it) whereas "walk aimlessly" is not (you can't say "I walk aimlessly in an hour"). Would your language require a morphological marker on the verb "walk" in each of the cases?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:22 pm 
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Put another way: "I walk-TEL home" cannot be turned into "I walk-ATEL home". By adding a terminus the concept becomes telic. Likewise: "I walk-ATEL aimlessly" could not be made into "I walk-TEL aimlessly" because then it wouldn't be aimless, would it?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:12 am 
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Right. So there's some semantic operations that would be taken care of with telicity here that would be translated with adverbs in English.

Yan jamts marishixts.
[jan dʒamts maɾiʃiçts]
yan jam-ts mari-shix-ts

I am walking home. (note that locatives are verbs)

In jamts marishixts.
[in dʒamts maɾiʃiçts]
in jam-ts mari-shix-ts

I walk home. (pronouns are irregular here: yan, tse, lu :> in, esh, eł)

Yane jamts.
[jane dʒamts]
yan-e jam-ts

I am wandering around.

I may as well take care of the atelic imperfective: q- + 'have' + absolutive in postpositional case.

Yane jqam a.
[jane dʒʁam ʔa]
yan-e q-jam 0-a-0

I wander around.

Note that 'have' is technically transitive, though verbs in q- don't take case marking. To put it in the second person so the topic marking shows up:

Tshe jqam ta.
[tsʰe dʒʁam ta]
tse-e q-jam t-a-0


Telicity marking on nouns is stolen wholesale from Finnish, though here it doesn't use the partitive. Piraha also apparently does it but I don't know how it works there.

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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:31 am 
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Also, telicity marking plus adverbs may be useful for more nuance sometimes. Eg "I walk-TEL aimlessly" may indicate perhaps walking with no reason to walk here or there, but a function to the walking overall, or perhaps a set period of time - eg the difference between wandering around, and wandering around to fill five minutes before your appointment.

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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:46 am 
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More derivational morphology.
-dam N>N 'resident of X, inheritor of the properties of X location'
Harxs chems muqrishims taxlerims tse heldam chupxotsnux!
harx-s che-m-s muqri-shi-m-s taxleri-m-s tse helli-dam chu-pxots-nux

Shave your fucking three-day beard, Yankee!

Imperatives are formed by fronting the object and leaving off the absolutive marker -- which drops for everything but the realis anyway. Topic marker stays. So you could just say Harxs tse chupxotsnux! "Shave your beard!" The vocative is pretty much obligatory though. Harxs chupxotsnux, tse! is also possible, but you can't front the vocative without adding another one: *Tse harxs chupxotsnux! isn't permitted, but you could have like Tse heldam! Harxs tse chupxotsnux!

There's something going on with the pragmatics of the standing/sitting/lying down marking on the topic affix but I don't know what yet. Beards normally sit -- so you could have:

Harx yane da meglits.
harx yan-e da me-geli-ts

I like your beard. (with these phrases Spanish-style instead of English-style, there's probably a more interesting way to do them but I don't know it)

but not *Harx yane da chuglits. If your beard is notably long, or waxed into a Jürgen Burkhardt thing, or something like that, you could have Harx yane da teglits. but that's marked.

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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:32 am 
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And back to Pembrish. Lord's Prayer in ~1150

ure fæder þu þe on heofonun eart
sie þin nama gehalwud
becyme þin rice
gewerðe þin willa
on eorþan swa swa on heofonun
syle us to dege ure deglican hlaf
ond forgief us ure gyltas
swa swa we forgiefeð urun gyltendun
ond ne led þu us on costnunge
ac alies us from yflan

urɛ fɛːðɛr θuː θɛ ɔn hjɔvɔnʊn jart
sɨː θiːn nama jɛˈhaːlwʊd
bɛkymɛ θiːn riːtʃɛ
jɛˈwɛrðɛ θiːn willa
ɔn jɔrðan swaː swaː ɔn hjɔvɔnʊn
sylɛ uːs tɔ dɛjɛ uːrɛ dɛjlitʃan hlaːf
ɔnd fɔrˈjɨf uːs uːre gyltas
swaː swaː weː fɔrˈjɨvɛθ uːrun gyltɛndʊn
ɔnd nɛ lɛd θuː uːs ɔn kɔstnʊŋgɛ
ak aˈlɨːs uːs frɔm yvlan

There are a few things already evident here: the loss of contrastiveness of short æ, the confusion of final nasals, unstressed inflectional vowels, and high central vowels, and the beginning of the loss of the voiced velar fricative.

and ~1500: (nb: ywle ~ yfela from yfle ~ yfele, syncope ends up reapplying after y is lost)

wre feder þe þw in siofonen iart
gihaload bio þi name
cume þi rice
bio þi willa gidoun
oun iorþa soa oun siofonen
gif ws to dei wre deilici llaf
oand foriw ws wre gyutes
soa wey foriwþ wrun gyutendun
oand ne led þw ws oun noan costnunge
ac alyes ws froum yfela

uːrə vɛːdər ðə ðuː in ʃɔˈvɔnə
jiˈhaloə̯d bjɔ ðiː namə
kumə ðiː riːtʃə
bjɔ ðiː wilə jiˈdɔun
ɔu̯n jɔrðə soə̯ ɔu̯n ʃɔˈvɔnə
jiːf uːs toː dɛi̯ uːrə dɛi̯litʃə ɬaf
oə̯nd fɔrˈjuː uːs uːrə gɨu̯təs
soə̯ wɛi̯ fɔrˈjuːθ uːrən guˈtɛndə
oə̯nd nɛ lɛd ðuː uːs ɔu̯n noə̯ kɔstˈnuŋə
ak əˈlɨːs uːs frɔu̯m yfɛlə

~1700, beginning of standardization, I want to fossilize the subjunctive and have something else grammaticalize to cover it but dunno what besides 'let' or 'may' and that's exactly what English did, any suggestions? using scyle for now but dunno if that makes sense

Wre Feeder, the thw in siofone iart,
yhalod bio thy name.
Sciele thy rytje cume,
on thy wille ydoun bio,
oun iordde so oun siofone.
Yw ws toodey wre deilitje llaff,
on foryw ws wre sienes
so wey foryw hye the egein ws sien.
On ne led thw ws ountoo no temptasioun,
ac alyes ws froum ywle.

uːrə vɛːdər ðə ðuː in ʃɔˈvɔnə jarʃt
iˈhalɔd bjɔ ðiː namə
skɨlə ðiː riːtʃə kumə
ɔn ðiː wilə iˈdɔu̯n
bjɔ ɔu̯n jɔrðə zɔ ɔu̯n ʃɔˈvɔnə
jiu̯ uːs toːˈdɛi̯ uːrə dɛi̯litʃə ɬaf
ɔn vɔrˈjiu̯ uːs uːre sɨnəs
zɔ wɛi̯ vorˈjiu̯ hɨː ðə əˈgɛi̯n uːs sɨn
ɔn nɛ lɛd ðuː uːs ɔu̯ntoː nɔ tɛmpˈtaʃɔu̯n
ak əlɨːs uːs vrɔu̯m iu̯lə

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:22 pm 
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bump

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Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:43 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:11 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:53 am 
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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:41 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul
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Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
Posts: 4545
Location: the Imperial Corridor

_________________
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


Last edited by Nortaneous on Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:28 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul
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Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
Posts: 4545
Location: the Imperial Corridor
Arve recording http://vocaroo.com/i/s07vOK57YXvi

in standard it's
ˈʈʂʌi̯s gʊn ˈkʰuo̯ʂ vɪç ˈcʰaɔ̯n mʏˈtsah vɪç ˈgɛa̯rɐs, ˈkʰuo̯ʂ tsɪç ˈmaɔ̯l ɪn ˌxʷaɔ̯lʔˈmɛa̯r̥ɐmɪl, ˈjɔu̯xʷ r̥ɪç ˌʈʂʌi̯s ˈtsɔu̯ɪl tsɪç tsɪˈxʷaɔ̯l.
ˈtʰie̯χɪn die̯ ˈçʌn ʊtʰ dɪn ˈxʷɛu̯tsɪr dɪm ˈlʊi̯kʰɐr ˈʈʂøts ˈɛdɪ die̯ ˈmɛa̯tsɐ ˈxʷɔlɐh.
ˈtʰɛŋɐr ˈxʷaɔ̯dun ˈjɛa̯r̥ʏh ʏ ˈmie̯ʂ cʰɐn ˈmɛç.

but represented in the recording is a midland dialect that neutralizes a bunch of codas to ɐ, has xʷ > f, and fucks with the diphthongs in ways that i didn't quite get so i'm gonna canonize aɔ̯ > æu̯ as a feature of the dialect of some city that i will figure out once i find my damn maps

_________________
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:05 am 
Sumerul
Sumerul
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Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
Posts: 4545
Location: the Imperial Corridor
and then I realized I didn't have any long texts in Insular Kett

[On a hill,] a sheep that had no wool saw horses. One of them was pulling a heavy wagon, one was carrying a big load, and one was carrying a man. The sheep said to the horses: "My heart pains me, seeing a man driving horses." The horses said: "Listen, sheep, our hearts pain us when we see this: a man, the master, makes the wool of the sheep into a warm garment for himself. And the sheep has no wool." Having heard this, the sheep fled into the plain.

Vántam cabé atwkéyngenn sáiran fenéuce ḩacént.
vant=am cabé atwkey-nge-nn sair=an fenéc-ue ḩa-cemb-t


Hán áytwcangg ḩáir ifáic ḩaiásang,
hán áytw-cang=an ḩáir i-fait-s ḩa-iása-ng


hánn réyrr lát ḩakáung,
hán=an reyn-r lát ḩa-káu-ng


hánn létak ḩakáung.
hán=an létak ḩa-káu-ng


Náhan sáir fenéucecang ḩatéut:
nah=an sáir fenéc-ue-cang ḩa-teu-t


posting this now so I don't lose it

_________________
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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