zompist bboard

Making a new dialect of English called Sirian, spoken by the human-esque inhabitants of the Sirius system.

Here's what I have so far:
sh/s/_#
ng/n/_C
p/'/_#
t/'/_#
k/'/_#
b/p/_#
d/t/_#
g/k/_#
b/m/#_
b/m/_V
d/n/#_
d/n/_V
g/ng/#_
g/ng/_V
b/p/V_V
d/t/V_V
g/k/V_V
t/s/V_V
d/z/V_V
Vm/L/_C
Vn/L/_C
V/L/_#


Example words with the rules so far:
English --> Eelis
Dog --> nok
Engine --> eengin
Bottle --> mossle
Computer --> coopuser
Bunk --> muu'
Ship --> shi'

I'd like some help coming up with some more rules, not sure what I want to do with r's and l's at all. Do these sound changes so far seem sensible?

Backstory:
In the new future humans start exploring the stars properly and first colonise Sirius, and a new race/breed of humans is created as a slave race, called Sirians. They are built stronger than Terrans (normal Earth humans), with keener senses and can breathe in lower oxygen atmospheres, they also have slightly pointed ears and longer canines.

How about some l-vocalisation and r-labialisation?

What does L represent?

Liquid, wouldn't it?

Those last 3 sound changes still wouldn't make sense, though.

D'you think you could write up a text? Going by those sample words, this may be more language than dialect.

I'm going to guess that L means long vowel.

I think you're right. Yeah, that works.

Sorry, L is long vowels.

And yeah I plan for the dialect to evolve into it's own sort of language... But the grammar is exactly the same at the moment but I may change the grammar a bit to create more a new style of language than a whole new grammar...

ol bofosh wrote:How about some l-vocalisation and r-labialisation?

So replace /ɹ/ with /ʋ/ and /l/ with /w/? Hmm... I like r-labialisation but not keen on l-vocalisation.


Now I want to make some vowel changes too but not sure what to do that would fit with the current shifts in pronunciation... I'd like simplification of diphthongs though...

Example sentence using the Zompist sound changer (http://www.zompist.com/sca2.html):

English: what do you think you're doing to the english language
entered: what do you think your doing to the english langwidj
output: hwa' nō yoū thī' your noīk tō thē ēlis lāwidj
cleaned: hwa' noo you thii' you're noiik too thee eelis laauage
pronunciation: /wæʔ no: yu: θiʔ yʊəʋ noɪ:k tu: ði: ɪ:lɪs læ:wɪdʒ/

New rules added:
ɹ/ʋ/_
wh/hw/_ (<hw> = /w/)

Some more examples using lines from what I'm writing, just the raw sound changes from the program:

these dog s will tear you a new won if your not careful
thesē nok s will tear yoū ā new won if your no' careful

not long now, just got to get the drop drive calibrated
no' lōk now, jus' nngo' tō nnge' thē nro' nrivē calibrased

sorry about that captain, just a power spike, gravity went crazy for a sec, is fine now
sorry amou' tha' captain, jus' ā power spii', ngravity wē' crazy for ā se', is finē now

I would expect any future derivative of English - assuming that we're talking descended from English and not English-adopted-by-people-who-speak-a-different-language - would be notable mostly in its vowel changes, with consonant changes being minimal (though probably at least some simplification in clusters and codas).

The English vowel system is ridiculously large, maladjusted, and prone to change.

I would begin by looking at current dialectical changes, and extrapolating from there.

DePaw wrote: output: hwa' nō yoū thī' your noīk tō thē ēlis lāwidj
cleaned: hwa' noo you thii' you're noiik too thee eelis laauage

I had the sensation when reading this of nasalised vowels. I think it's the change of d to n.

Do you have any idea what modern dialect/s this has come from?

You should use IPA or X-SAMPA, or at least explain your transcription method.

DePaw wrote:Making a new dialect of English called Sirian, spoken by the human-esque inhabitants of the Sirius system.

Here's what I have so far:
sh/s/_#
ng/n/_C
p/'/_#
t/'/_#
k/'/_#
b/p/_#
d/t/_#
g/k/_#
b/m/#_
b/m/_V
d/n/#_
d/n/_V
g/ng/#_
g/ng/_V
b/p/V_V
d/t/V_V
g/k/V_V
t/s/V_V
d/z/V_V
Vm/L/_C
Vn/L/_C
V/L/_#

I'd like some help coming up with some more rules, not sure what I want to do with r's and l's at all. Do these sound changes so far seem sensible?

No, at least not for humans. It's hard to say what makes sense for beings that are not quite human. This change: ng/n/_C, would turn [ŋ] into [n] even before velars, which is odd. Then you devoive a bunch of consonants in intervocalic position, which is the opposite of what usually happens in natlangs. These rules: g/k/V_V, d/z/V_V never get used due to these rules: g/ng/_V, d/t/V_V, which happen before them. Unless the language gets new words with VɡV and VdV in the meanwhile by borrowing them from some other language.

Thanks Qwynegold, I didn't notice that will have to reorder my rules.

Ok here are the updated rules:

sh/s/_#
ng/n/_C
p/'/_#
t/'/_#
k/'/_#
b/p/_#
d/t/_#
g/k/_#
b/m/#_
b/m/_V
d/n/#_
d/n/_V
g/ng/#_
g/k/V_V
g/ng/_V
b/p/V_V
t/s/V_V
d/z/V_V
gh//V_
ea/e/_
ou/o/_
oo/u/_
aa/a/_
ee/e/_
ei/e/_
ai/a/_
ay/e/_
ow/o/_
Ce/C/V_#
Vm/L/_C
Vn/L/_C
Vp/L/_C
V/L/_#
wh/w/_
w/hw/_
ks/kh/_

Basically the changes are a little reordering and adding in some diphthong simplification, also changed 'x' /ks/ to 'kh' /x/.

And a sample output:
English: Sorry about that captain, jsut a power spike, gravity went crazy for a sec, is fine now
Input: sorry about that captayn , just a power spaik , gravitī went crazī for a sek , is fain now
Output: sorry amo' tha' cāten , jus' ā poer spa' , ngravitī hwē' crazī for ā se' , is fan nō
Cleaned: Sorry amo' tha' caaten, jus' aa poer spa', ngavitii hwee' crazii for aa se', is fan noo.

Numbers 1-10:
English: one, two, three, four five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten
Input: won, tū, thrī, for, faiv, siks, seven, ayt, nain, ten
Output: hwon, tū, thrī, for, fav, sikh, seven, e', nan, ten
Cleaned: hwon, tuu, thrii, for, fav, sikh, seven, e', nan, ten

Some words are completely the same, some are only slightly different, others are barely recognisable...

What you think?

awful

read more

You could be a little more constructive than that! Got any links maybe for me to read then?

the board, wikipedia, at this point it doesn't really matter

For one, you should learn the IPA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... c_Alphabet, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_vowel_chart_with_audio, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_pulmon ... with_audio, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... h_dialects are helpful.

I know ipa already. I may redo the rules using ipa...

Ok worked on the vowel system, how's this?





Example vowel spellings, no consonant changes:
mouth --> maath
father --> farther
day --> dee
about --> ibaat
soap --> siip
bear --> ber
beer --> byr
see --> syy
deer --> dyr
cute --> cjuut
pure --> pur
choice --> choos
warm --> worm
worm --> werm
through --> thruu
tour --> tur

English: " 'These dogs' will tear you a new one if you're not careful."
Sirian: " 'Dhiiz nokz' wil tir yuu aa nuu wun if yur not kerfil."
IPA: /ði:z nɔkz ʰwɪl tɪʋ yu: ä: nu: ʰwʊn ɪf yʊʋ nɔt kɛʋfəl/

ʃ/s/_#
ŋ/n/_C
p/ʔ/_#
t/ʔ/_#
k/ʔ/_#
b/p/_#
d/t/_#
g/k/_#
b/m/#_
b/m/_V
d/n/#_
d/n/_V
g/ŋ/#_
g/k/V_V
g/ŋ/_V
b/p/V_V
t/s/V_V
d/z/V_V
Vm/VV/_C
Vn/VV/_C
Vp/VV/_C
V/VV/_#
wh/w/_
w/ʰw/_
ks/x/_
ææ/ä:/_
ɪɪ/i:/_
ɪər/ɪʋ/_
ʊʊ/u:/_
ɔɔ/ɔ:/_
əə/ə:/_
ɑr/ɑ:/_
ɪər/ɪʋ/_
ɛər/ɛʋ/_
ɔr/ɔʋ/_
ɔər/ɔʋ/_
jʊər/jʊʋ/_
ʊər/ʊʋ/_
ɒ/ɔ/_
ɨ/ɪ/_
i/ɪ/_
eɪ/e:/_
ɛ/e/_/_ʋ
ɜr/ɜʋ/_
ər/ɜʋ/_
ʌ/ʊ/_
aɪ/ä:/_
ɔɪ/ɔ:/_
aʊ/ä:/_

Not sure how to get these last two worked out though as the chart I made based on the other dialects of English has /oʊ/ go to two different results...
oʊ/ə:/ (keyword: goat; examples: no, toe, soap)
oʊ/ɔ:/ (keyword: goat; examples: tow, folk, soul, roll, cold)

Is there a general rule here I'm not seeing?

Screw it, they both go to /ɔ:/ now!

Changing the spelling then as there's no longer a long schwa:
/i: ɪ ɪʋ ə/
<ii i ir î>

Oh no the dreaded diacritic in an English-y language!

Adding another sound change too:
θ/f/_F
θ/f/_S

where F means a front vowel, and S means a stop.

Example:
Birthday /bɜrθdeɪ/ --> merfnee /mɜʋfne:/

Adding another sound change:

nVm/mVn/_

Animal /ænəməl/ --> Amînîl /æmənəl/

Except the zompist sound changer doesn't like that rule (should I enter it differently somehow?), so for now I will have to do it manually...

Meh, I just encoded very vowel separately and it works...