Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: Epic Poetry)

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Re: Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: Story Time)

Post by dhok »

(idiotic sound change redacted)
Last edited by dhok on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: Story Time)

Post by Hallow XIII »

Why? b being significantly more frequent than p is nothing new and messing with phoneme frequencies because OMG MY LANG DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH OF EVERY PHONEME is a surefire way to ruin the realism.

Same story for sticky mergers. IRL languages use things like semantic drift, compounding, derivation etc to clear things up. Try it some time.
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Re: Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: Story Time)

Post by hwhatting »

I agree with Inversion. Also, in the light of the chnages of the other aspirates, /bh/ > /p/ looks totally out of place and unmotivated.

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Re: Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: Story Time)

Post by Salmoneus »

This is correct, yes.

I'm sure Dhok is also aware that in reality these words often did merge, or come very close to it. The Romance words for 'snow' and 'new' often differ only in their vowels (as they would in English if we hadn't picked the version with s-mobile); 'cloud' (equivalent to your 'sky') is a little different because it comes from a diminutive, but still very similar. Portuguese, for instance, has névoa, novo, and neve. Ancient Greek had nipha (in the accusative), nephos and neos.

Even if you can't stomach full mergers, this is PIE you're talking about! You've got up to five grades of vowel to work with, s-mobile, nasal infixes, and a large number of adjectival and nominal endings that frequently end up semantically interchangeable! Avoiding mergers is easy!

(eg. in this case Italic used the zero-grade of the word for 'snow', and then either zero-grade-plur-ró or e-grade-plus-lo for 'cloud')
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Re: Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: Story Time)

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The Future

(in a desperate attempt to have a somewhat finished project in time for the ZBB award voting)

Finally, and to round out the verbal system, Lusitanic has a future tense. This was originally derived from a desiderative-like form C₁VC₂- -> C₁íC₁VC₂s-, which has cognate formations in at least Sanskrit. This doesn't really need any examples since it's just the future stem (third principle part) plus the e/o-stem unstressed endings, but I'll give them anyways. It may be active or passive, and there is no future perfect.

Code: Select all

ACTIVE

  S       D        P
1 σίθυϝω    σίθυϝως    σίθυϝαμες
2 σίθυϝες   σίθυϝετες  σίθυϝετε
3 σίθυϝετ   σίθυϝετες  σίθυϝαν

PASSIVE

  S       D       P
1 σίθυϝωρ   σίθυϝεβαρ σίθυϝεμερ
2 σίθυϝεσερ σίθυϝετερ σίθυϝεθερ
3 σίθυϝεταρ σίθυϝετερ σίθυϝανταρ
Because the stress uniformly shifts to the first syllable, a large number of common verbs actually syncopate (!) out their stem vowels and have future stems that don't look very much like their presents: present μυσ- but future μίψ-, present ήδ- but future ίψ-, present τοπ- but future τίτ-...you get the idea. Currently, the plan (I think this is what Sanskrit did- it's hard to tell) is to reduplicate stems starting in #sC- to #sCíC-. Previously I had reduplicated them in #sísC-, with the result that a fuckton of them looked the same.

The future of "to be" is from *bʰew-, stem *bʰíbʰews-, Lusitanic reflex βίψ-.

Participles

Pretty straightforward. There are present, future and perfect participles each in the active and passive.

-The present active participle derived from the PIE *-nt participle. It's an i/consonant stem adjective, except that stress doesn't hop around like usually, but stays where it is supposed to, either on the thematic vowel or on the root. (Notably, this means that any endings in -ή, like the dative singular, just become -ε in the paradigms. Examples are nom. sing. θυμών, gen. sing. θυμώντες from θυμώσε; ριγκήν, ριγκήντες from ριγκήσε; and βήρεν, βήρεντες from βήρεσε.

-The present passive participle derives from a PIE participle in -mn-. It's an a/o-stem, with the suffix -μνας, -μνω, -μναν added to the present stem.

-The perfect active participle derives from a PIE participle in -wos-. It's an a/o-stem with -ψας, -ψω, -ψαν added to the perfect stem. (Note the effects of generalized syncope. Before syncope, this was a much more transparent -βασας, -βασω, -βασαν.)

-The perfect passive participle is the final principle part of the verb. It's an a/o-stem.

-The future active participle is basically the same as the present active participle, but added to the future stem instead of the present. Because the future uniformly takes e/o endings and has a defined stress change, the participial endings are always identical to those of βήρεσε.

-The future passive participle, likewise, takes the future stem (plus thematic -ε-) and adds the present passive participial endings.

Other infinitival constructions

As we've seen, there is a standard present active infinitive in -ώσε, ήσε, εσε. It's the second principle part, which needs to be changed, because it's always derivable from the present stem, at least for now- some verbs might have irregular infinitives deriving from syncope, we shall see.

However, there are a few other infinitive formations. All of them are recently innovated from the participles plus the infinitive of "to be", which is ιήσε, so, not surprisingly:

-The present passive infinitive, from the participle in -mn-, is -μνεσε added to the stem: θυμώμνεσε. (No syncope because of an unwieldy consonant cluster).

-The perfect active infinitive, from the participle in *-wos-, is -ψε added to it: θυμώψε. (Note syncope).

-The perfect passive infinitive is -ήσε or -εσε (the former if the verb's perfect passive participle stressed the ending) added to the last principle part's stem: θυϝήσε.

-The future active infinitive is the future stem plus -εσε: σίθυϝεσε. The future passive infinitive is the future stem plus -εμνεσε: σίθυϝεμνεσε.

There is also a progressive active infinitive in -στε (again, note syncope- originally -θωσε > -θσε > -σθε > -στε, so θυμώστε) and a progressive passive infinitive in -νθεσε (θωμνεσε > θμνεσε > θνεσε > νθεσε, so θυμώνθεσε).

Should do a post on syntax before nominating myself...the lexicon is actually pretty extensive for a conlang (right now it's sitting at around 325 words). Also note that a few mistaken edits to the paradigms based on an ill-fated change of the diachronics of *bʰ -> p instead of -> b have been corrected.
Last edited by dhok on Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:02 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: The future will be better tomorr

Post by dhok »

Here's a recording of The Sheep and the Horses. It isn't great- I'm not too smooth- but it should give you an idea.

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Re: Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: The future will be better tomorr

Post by dhok »

I've also just realized that I'm getting too many verbs with identical futures, but that there are other forms from which I can derive the stems, like the desiderative in -sy-. So check the lexicon for verbs with changed future stems.

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Re: Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: The future will be better tomorr

Post by dhok »

SYNTAX

Image

This will (hopefully) be a pretty long post. I'm going to at least try to get through the uses of the major varieties of morphology before the Zeeb Awards voting period.

Uses of the Noun

So Lusitanic, as we learned in the nominal morphology section, has your standard gender-number-case system that's present in every other dead IE language.

Gender

Nouns may be masculine, feminine, or neuter. Any modifiers (when applicable, ie not relative clauses) must agree with their head nouns in gender. Gender is often but not always tied to declension. Neuter nouns always have identical nominatives and accusatives.

Number

Nouns may also come in the singular, dual or plural. This is also quite straightforward: one thing comes in the singular, two in the dual, any more than that in the plural.

Case

...and here we get into the meat of the system. Here's a short rundown of each case with its main usages.

- Nominative. Used for the agent or experiencer (in intransitive sentences). It is also used as a predicate in sentences with ιήσε.

- Genitive. Used for possession, in which case it generally comes after its head noun (but not always): βαρθώ τιες ιηί, "the man's beard". It is also used in some partitive constructions: νεβώγω ωηής, "nothing of water", ie "no water". It was not used partitively with numbers (that's the ablative). Also used with a few prepositions (mainly those worn down from regular words): αθώ τιες ιονθί, "chez the warrior", "at the house of the warrior".

- Dative. Used mainly for recipients: τι θαπράς θογάν τιε μεκρήβε δεσετά, "the craftsman gave a brooch to the king."

-Accusative. Used for direct objects: μήηιας ηεσάν κεπετά, "the young man made a spear". Also used with prepositions, usually indicating movement: τρως τι μαρ, "across the sea". It is also used sans preposition with expressions of time to indicate duration: δήκα άντως, "for ten years". It's also used to indicate destination with verbs of movement, not always with a preposition: τιω άβις τιν άγραν βεϝάς βοστά, "the sheep fled (in)to the plain."

- Ablative. The ablative is a grab-bag case. It's used with some prepositions (καν ϝωγώ, "along with a servant"), alone as an instrumental (τιν ιηάν ηεσώ νεσά, "I killed the man with a spear"). With time constructions it was used for time within which: κήγκε δήναβας , "in five days". It could be used with the preposition άπα to indicate the agent of passive sentences: άπα τιε ιονθώ ναστάς βοστά, "he was killed by the warrior".

-Locative. This is generally used to indicate place where (this is almost always stative- movement requires the accusative): τρεβί βων, "I was at home". It is used with some prepositions: αθής τιε σορί, "under the sun". It is also used in absolute constructions with participles like the Latin ablative absolute: τισο σήβισο ναστήσο, τι μήρκος τιων ριθών σεσιετά: "With the barbarians killed, the king conquered the country." In time constructions, it indicates time at which: σίετων δήνε, "on that day".

-Vocative. Used for direct address: ω βρωτήρ, "O brother!" Often preceded by the particle ω, and usually identical to the nominative except for masculine o-stems and most r-stems.
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Re: Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: The future will be better tomorr

Post by dhok »

The Uses of the Verb

Because I really don't have to care about the finals I have this week, amirite guyz?

Person and Number

This is pretty straightforward...the finite verb must agree with the subject of the sentence in number and person.

Tense

In the indicative, this is pretty straightforward:

-The present is used for things occuring at the present time, but generally not with a progressive sense. Think of the present tense in Spanish or Portuguese.

-The progressive aspect is used to indicate an ongoing action. It's not used as often as in English- non-gnomic, present actions can just use the present. Something really has to be going on at the given time to use the progressive.

-The imperfect indicates a past action, but one that can't really be shrunk down to a single point. Consider "When I was thirteen (imperfect), we moved to California (perfect)."

-The perfect indicates a completed action. It's usually best translated by the English simple past tense; the Spanish or Portuguese simple past match quite closely.

-The pluperfect indicates action having occured before a past time: "when we moved to California, we had already bought a house."

-The future indicates, well, future time. There isn't a future perfect; use an auxiliary construction instead with the perfect active participle of the verb plus the future tense of ιήσε. (Or the perfect passive participle, in the passive voice.)

Mood

...here's where things will get a touch more complicated.

The indicative is usually pretty straightforward: it's the standard realis mood.

The subjunctive has a number of usages:

-It's used independently as a non-second-person imperative-like mood: "let me...", "let us...", "let him": ίνωμες! "Let's go!" When negated, it must use the special particle μι.

-It can also be used independently to soften requests:
ιέναν εσήιως?
wine.acc want.2s.pres.subj.act
"Would you like some wine?"

-It can be used in a number of subordinate clauses:

: In relative clauses, it indicates that the antecedent may not necessarily exist:

εσώ τιν ιηάν σακίς μήσως ϝοσήτ.
seek.1s the.ACC man.ACC who.M.S.NOM coat.ACC.PL sell.3s.IND.
"I'm looking for the man who sells coats." (I know there is one, I just don't know where.)

εσώ ιηάν σακίς μήσως ϝοσώτ.
seek.1s man.ACC who.M.S.NOM coat.ACC.PL sell.3s.SUBJ.
"I'm looking for a man who (may) sell coats." (I do not know if there is such a man.)

: It's also used with the conjunction άψι (from άπα σίε, "by this") with verbs like hope, wish, etc.:

ϝινώ άψι τις διβώς μεϝάτε.
hope.1s that the.ACC.PLUR god.ACC.PLUR pray.2s.subj.perf.act.
"I hope you have prayed to the gods."

But don't use it when you know for certain that such a thing has happened; that's the same construction, but with the indicative:

ήδω άψι βρέιεθωτ
know.1s that rain.3s.pres.prog.ind.act
"I know it's raining."

: It can be use to create purpose clauses with the particle δάσι (from δα σι, "towards this"):

τιε μερκήβε σίεθων ριθώς γράβιω δάσι μι νας σέιωτ.
the.dat king.dat that.fem.gen land.gen write.1s so-that not 1p.acc.CLIT conquer.3s.pres.subj.
"I am writing to the king of that land so that he may not conquer us." (Note the use of μι in the subordinate clause; this is an exhortation, if a secondhand one.)

: It's used for reported speech with the conjunction πα (from *kʷo[d]):

τι ιονθάς ασις γεπτετά πα τιες σήβι σεθί βοσεβάτα.
the warrior 1p.dat.CLIT say.perf.3s that the.nom.pl barbarian.nom.pl defeated be.plup.subj.act.3p.
"The warrior told us that the barbarians had been defeated."

: It's used with some general conjunctions like νάψι "unless" and σενί "although":

νάψι ιήσως τις μήρκος, νεβώγων νετι δίσω.
unless be.2s.subj. the king, nothing.acc not.CLIT-2s.dat.CLIT give.fut.1s
"Unless you're the king, I won't give you anything."
(Note that Lusitanic requires double negation (the last clause is really "I won't give you nothing"), and that preverbal clitics stack into single words.)

Note that in all of these, a sequence of tenses must be followed:

-If the main verb is in non-past tense and the subordinate clause is at the same time or after the main verb, the subordinate verb must be in the present subjunctive.
-If the main verb is in past tense and the subordinate is at the same time or after, the subordinate is imperfect subjunctive.
-If the main verb is in non-past tense and the subordinate happened before the main verb, the subordinate is perfect subjunctive.
-If the main verb is in past tense and the subordinate happened before it, the subordinate verb is pluperfect subjunctive.

In clauses where άψι is used with a subordinate indicative, just replace "subjunctive" above with "indicative". (But note that Lusitanic usually uses an infinitive construction instead if there's a lot of playing around to do with tense and aspect).

: Finally (well, there are probably some other usages, but I can't think of them), we have conditional sentences. The word for "if" is παν, from *kʷom (originally "when"). Much as in Latin, there are several types of conditional clause (and they are constructed basically the same way):

-The condition and the result may be both perfectly possible or even likely, in which case, they are both in the indicative:

παν τιβας διβάβας μοθιήμες, μίβρετ.
if the.dat.pl god.dat.pl pray.pres.ind.act.1p, rain.3s.fut.act
"If we pray to the gods, it will rain."

-The condition and the result might be hypothetical, but perfectly possible (and, therefore, nonpast,), in which case the condition and result are both in the present subjunctive:

παν τιβας διβάβας μοθιώμες, βρέιωτ.
if the.dat.pl god.dat.pl pray.pres.subj.act.1p, rain.3s.pres.subj.act
"If we were to/should pray to the gods, it may rain."

-The condition and the result may refer to something in the present that isn't true. In this case, they are both in the imperfect subjunctive:

παν τιβας διβάβας μοθιώμβες, βρέιωβοτ.
if the.dat.pl god.dat.pl pray.imp.subj.act.1p, rain.3s.imp.subj.act
"If we were praying to the gods, it would be raining."

-And the conditional and the result may refer to something in the past that didn't happen. They are both in the pluperfect subjunctive:

παν τιβας διβάβας μεϝεβήμβαθα, βρεηεβήπτι.
if the.dat.pl god.dat.pl pray.plup.subj.act.1p, rain.3s.plup.subj.act
"If we had prayed to the gods, it would be raining."

Operating similarly to παν is the conjunction νιξί (< νι+καν+σίε), meaning "except that", which governs the same sorts of clauses and tense structure:

νιξί βαίμες τρεβί, βαίμες Ρóμι.
except be.1p.imp.subj home.loc be.1p.imp.subj Rome.loc
"Except that we're at home, we'd be in Rome".

Compare the nearly identical in meaning:
παν νε βαίμες τρεβί, βαίμες Ρóμι.
if not be.1p.imp.subj home.loc be.1p.imp.subj Rome.loc
"If we weren't at home, we'd be in Rome."

Finally, the imperative is used for general commands. It only has second-person forms in the present active; anything else needs to use a jussive subjunctive.

The infinitive is mainly used in two contexts:

-As a complement:

εσήιω ιήσε τις μήρκος.
want.1s be.INF the king
I want to be the king.

-As an alternative to indicative άψι clauses. Compare:
ήδω άψι τις μήρκος ιέναν κέμετ.
know.1s that the king.nom wine.acc drink.pres.ind.3s
"I know that the king drinks wine."

You can shift the king into the accusative and the verb into the infinitive, like in Latin.

ήδω τιν μήρκον ιέναν κέμεσε.
know.1s the.acc king.acc wine.acc drink.INF
"I know the king to drink wine"-> "I know that the king drinks wine."

Here one can use the full array of infinitives to indicate the tense and voice of the formerly subordinate clause. Consider this tweaked example, with the verb in the perfect active infinitive:

ήδω τιν μήρκον ιέναν κέμεψε.
know.1s the.acc king.acc wine.acc drink.perf.act.inf.
"I know the king to have drunk wine" -> "I know the king drank wine."

Or this passive example:

ήδω τι ιέναν παϝήσε.
know.1s the.acc wine.acc drink.perf.pass.inf.
"I know the wine to have been drunk" -> "I know the wine was drunk."

The alternative way of writing this last example would be
ήδω άψι τι ιέναν παϝάν βοστά.
know.1s that the.nom wine.nom drunk.neut.nom be.perf.ind.3s

...however, in proper Lusitanic style, it might be seen as a bit wordy.

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Re: Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: Syntax)

Post by dhok »

The following lines are from a longer epic about the folk hero Ιεπριάς during a battle with some sort of mythical reptile. Because Lusitanic does not have phonemic vowel length, it does not have the same poetic forms as Latin or Greek; instead it has lines of anywhere from 16-20 syllables with a break in the middle and (usually) equal numbers of stresses on both sides. Alliteration is not commonly used, but interior (rarely end) rhyme usually is, either between or within lines (this is not hard with Lusitanic's inflectional system), as well as parallel grammatical constructions. Poetic license is common; this can include the deletion of final unstressed vowels if the following word starts with a vowel, or even consonants if the next consonant is similar. There are also some special poetic verb forms, mostly arising from syncope which would otherwise not have survived, and because poetry is in a highly reductive and often archaic register, the article is often dropped, or becomes a clitic τι-. If that sounds kind of varied, it is- one could always bend the rules for the sake of composing an impressive line. I would have them all glossed and recorded for you, but unfortunately I really need to study for my physics final.

Ιεπριάς ταδώ τρωϝεσ'τά · δάσ' ωΐν μήγαν ιενθήμβοτ
Ιήτ ιερτάν, τάσμας σαν εσ'τά · δάσι σέιωβο' τιν ηήρσαν.
Ιντέ μιϝετά τι' ϝατήρες · δάσι σι αδρώ δαίβοταρ
Άπα σίβαθων βέθαβα σ'κίες · σι γίτων ϝρωβωστί δεσ'τά.
Κις τοτών Τάγι ρεσήιωτ; · Τις Τάγας ϝοτός, κρήβι τι' ριθώς,
Σακίες άηισο τι' ϝυηάς άγρισο · βεργός ηοτάηε ρέθετ αθή' σορί.
Μοθάν σεξετά νήσι ιεβρετάκε, · ιήτ ταρδετά τιν ωΐν τι' ηεσώ.
Τ' ις κρεβής τι' ηήρσι τι ηεσάν · τεστετά. Ίδι τι ϝινώ τι τοτώς
Ωθώ βοτώ ιήθα. Ναβωστί, · άγκιαν Ιεπριάς νεσετά. Ναβωστί,
Εσετά σέιεσε. Ϝεηετά ϝήηο, · ιήτ τρως τι σώηων βεϝάς βοστά.
Ιεν ηάθω ϝήηο ιεϝετά, αβάν · μεντετά ϝρατ 'ι ηεβρέ τι ωιής.

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