Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interesting

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Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interesting

Post by Ser »

In a contrarian's spirit to the Romanization Challenge Thread, in this thread you'll try to be creative and finally give Latin an interesting way to be written.

Note that the following presentation considers Latin as a whole, not just a reconstruction of 1st century BC pronunciation as it's usually done.

/p t k/
/b d g/
/f s h/
/m n l r w j/
  • All consonants except /h w/ can be geminated intervocalically. /apːɛndɪks/ 'supplement'.
  • /m/ word-finally or before /f/ (always after a vowel in such cases), depending on the speaker and period, is [m], is silent, or is a marker of nasalization and elongation of the previous vowel. /luːktuːm/ 'mourning, grief', example pronunciations: [ˈluːktũː ˈluːktʊm ˈluktum ˈluːktuː].
  • A similar observation goes for /n/ before /f s h/: [n], silent, or a mark of nasalization.
  • An exophoneme exists: /dz/, taken from Greek. /baptiːdzaːrɛ/ 'to baptize'.
/iː ɪ - uː ʊ/
/eː ɛ - oː ɔ/
/aː a/
/aɪ oɪ aʊ/
  • Many speakers merged and merge the above pairs: /i: ɪ/ as /i/ , /uː ʊ/ as /u/ , /aː a/ as /a/ [a], etc. Most of such speakers also merged and merge /aɪ oɪ/ with /eː ɛ/ into a single /e/ [e]. (Other kinds of mergers have existed, but are to a notable extent irrelevant.)
  • An exophoneme exists: /y/, taken from Greek. /aɪgyptʊs/ 'Egypt'.


The syllable structure is (C(G))V(C).
  • The possible (C(G)) have historically been mostly limited to /kw- gw- sw-/. /kwaɪs.tɪ.oː/ 'a search', /ar.gwoː/ 'I accuse', /swaː.dɛ.oː/ 'I persuade'. These could be analyzed as /kʷ gʷ sʷ/ instead.
  • As you can see in the /kwaɪs.tɪ.oː/ example, even sequences of /ɪ/ in glide-like position followed another vowel have been historically most often pronounced in hiatus: /tɪ.aː.ra/ (three syllables, contrast the improperly-formed */tjaː.ra/) 'turban, tiara'. (This, of course, doesn't apply when /j w/ could only be the C of the syllable and not the G: /jeː.kiː/ 'I threw', /waː.doː/ 'I go', /ɛj.jʊs/ 'of his/her'.)
  • /w/ and /u/ certainly contrast, but /j/ and /ɪ/ could be analyzed as the same phoneme.
  • Many speakers have pronounced /w/ as [v], either only those in word-initial and intervocalic position (/kw gw sw/ remaining [kw gw sw]), or these + /kw/ (giving [kv], but /gw sw/ remain as such).


Stress is not phonemic for those who distinguish all ten monophthongs, being based on syllable weight towards the end of the sentence. For those with vowel mergers, it is indeed phonemic. Hence I've marked the stressed syllable in the sample text below, even though it was unnecessary.

Now, an example text. Feel free to do as many <||>s as you feel doing. I.e. if you won't do the whole sample text, at least try to finish in a <||>.
  • /kwiː weːroː ˈdɛoːs ˈɛsːɛ diːˈkseːrʊnt ˈtanta sʊnt ɪn warɪɛˈtaːtɛ ɛt dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ | ʊt ɛˈoːruːm iːnfiːˈniːtuːm sɪt eːnʊmɛˈraːrɛ sɛnˈtɛntɪaːs || naːm ɛt deː fɪˈguːriːs dɛˈoːruːm | ɛt deː ˈlɔkiːs atkwɛ ˈseːdɪbʊs | ɛt deː aːktɪˈoːnɛ ˈwiːtaɪ ˈmʊlta diːˈkʊntʊr || ˈdeːkwɛ iːs ˈsʊmːa phɪlɔsɔˈphoːruːm dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ kɛrˈtaːtʊr || kwɔd ˈweːroː ˈmaksɪmeː ˈreːm kaʊˈsaːmkwɛ ˈkɔntɪnɛt ˈʊtruːm ˈnɪhɪl ˈagant | ˈnɪhɪl moːlɪˈantʊr | ˈɔmniː kuːraːtɪˈoːnɛ ɛt admɪnɪstraːtɪˈoːnɛ ˈreːruːm ˈwakɛnt || an ˈkɔntraː ab ˈɪiːs ɛt aː priːnˈkɪpɪoː ˈɔmnɪa ˈfakta ɛt koːnstɪˈtuːta sɪnt | ɛt ad iːnfiːˈniːtuːm ˈtɛmpʊs reːˈgantʊr atkwɛ mɔwɛˈantʊr || ɪn ˈpriːmiːs kwaɪ ˈmagna dɪsˈseːnsɪoː ɛst || ˈɛakwɛ nɪsiː diːjuːdɪˈkaːtʊr | ɪn ˈsʊmːoː ɛrˈroːrɛ nɛˈkɛsːɛ ɛst ˈhɔmɪneːs atkwɛ ɪn maksɪˈmaːruːm ˈreːruːm ɪgnoːraːtɪˈoːnɛ wɛrˈsaːriː/


My translation:
  • 'Those who have said that the gods exist vary and disagree on so many things that listing their opinions would be endless. Many things have been said about how the gods look, where their places and seats are, and what they do in their lives. These things are what the philosophers largely disagree in. But the most important part is whether they do nothing, plan nothing, and exist free of concerns and any management of the world. Or whether, on the other hand, everything has been made and formed by them from the beginning, and is going to be ruled and moved by them forever. Here is where there's the most disagreement. Unless there's a solution to this, humanity will necessarily remain in the greatest of errors and ignorant of the most important things.' (Cicero, On the Nature of the Gods, book I.)
Last edited by Ser on Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Bristel »

/p t k/ <p t k>
/b d g/ initially <b d g> medially and finally <pp tt kk>
/f s h/ < f z `> open accent for /h/ on the vowel that follows
/m n l r w j/ <m n l r w y>
/Cː/ <C1C1>

/apːɛndɪks/
[ˈluːktũː ˈluːktʊm ˈluktum ˈluːktuː] <lûktũũ lûktum luktum lûktû>
/baptiːdzaːrɛ/ <baptîttzâre> (/dz/ <ttz>)

/iː ɪ - uː ʊ/ < î i w u >
/eː ɛ - oː ɔ/ < ê e ô o >
/aː a/ < â a >
/y/ < ü >
/aɪ oɪ aʊ/ <ai oi aw>


The syllable structure is (C(G))V(C).

/kʷ gʷ sʷ/ <cu gu su> written CuV, even when the next vowel is /uː ʊ/
/w u j ɪ/ are written <w u y i> and are distinguished.

Example:
/kwiː weːroː ˈdɛoːs ˈɛsːɛ diːˈkseːrʊnt ˈtanta sʊnt ɪn warɪɛˈtaːtɛ ɛt dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ | ʊt ɛˈoːruːm iːnfiːˈniːtuːm sɪt eːnʊmɛˈraːrɛ sɛnˈtɛntɪaːs || naːm ɛt deː ˈfɪguːriːs dɛˈoːruːm | ɛt deː ˈlɔkiːs atkwɛ ˈseːdɪbʊs | ɛt deː aːktɪˈoːnɛ ˈwiːtaɪ ˈmʊlta diːˈkʊntʊr || ˈdeːkwɛ iːs ˈsʊmːa phɪlɔsɔˈphoːruːm dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ kɛrˈtaːtʊr || kwɔd ˈweːroː ˈmaksɪmeː ˈreːm kaʊˈsaːmkwɛ ˈkɔntɪnɛt ˈʊtruːm ˈnɪhɪl ˈagant | ˈnɪhɪl moːlɪˈantʊr | ˈɔmniː kuːraːtɪˈoːnɛ ɛt admɪnɪstraːtɪˈoːnɛ ˈreːruːm ˈwakɛnt || an ˈkɔntraː ab ˈɪiːs ɛt aː priːnˈkɪpɪoː ˈɔmnɪa ˈfakta ɛt koːnstɪˈtuːta sɪnt | ɛt ad iːnfiːˈniːtuːm ˈtɛmpʊs reːˈgantʊr atkwɛ mɔwɛˈantʊr || ɪn ˈpriːmiːs kwaɪ ˈmagna dɪsˈseːnsɪoː ɛst || ˈɛakwɛ nɪsiː diːjuːdɪˈkaːtʊr | ɪn ˈsʊmːoː ɛrˈroːrɛ nɛˈkɛsːɛ ɛst ˈhɔmɪneːs atkwɛ ɪn maksɪˈmaːruːm ˈreːruːm ɪgnoːraːtɪˈoːnɛ wɛrˈsaːriː/

Kuî wêrô deôs esse dîksêrunt tanta sunt in warietâte et dissênsiône, ut eôrûm înfînîtûm sit ênumerâre sen tentiâs. Nâm et dê fikkûrîs deôrûm, et dê lokîs atcue sêdippus, et dê âktiône wîtai multa dîkuntur. Dêcue îs summa pilosopôrûm dissênsiône kertâtur. Cuott wêrô maksimê rêm kawsâmcue kontinet utrûm niìl agant, niìl môliantur, omnî kûrâtiône et attministrâtiône rêrûm wakent. An kontrâ app iîs et â prînkipiô omnia fakta et kônstitûta sint, et att înfînîtûm tempus rêkkantur atcue moweantur. In prîmîs cuai makkna dis ikknôrâtiône wersârî.

Probably some issues with this orthography, but I was in a rush to type this down.
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Circumflexes! My favorite!


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Ser »

Basilius wrote:[ˈluːktũː ˈluːktʊm ˈluktum ˈluːktuː] <lûktũũ lûktum luktum lûktû>
They were just sample pronunciations of the same word, the same phonemes, which would be just <lûktûm> in your orthography.

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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by communistplot »

/p t k/ <p t k>
/b d g/ <b d g>
/f s h/ <f s x>
/m n l r w j/ <m n l r ŭ ĭ>
/m/ or /n/ in environments where they wouldn't be pronounced (or nasalised the preceding vowel) is marked as a tilde over the preceding vowel e.g. /luktum/ <luktũ>

/iː ɪ - uː ʊ/ <ih i uh u>
/eː ɛ - oː ɔ/ <eh e oh o>
/aː a/ <ah a>
/aɪ oɪ aʊ/ <æ œ ao>

Long vowels are unmarked at the end of words except when a consonant follows.
  • /kwiː weːroː ˈdɛoːs ˈɛsːɛ diːˈkseːrʊnt ˈtanta sʊnt ɪn warɪɛˈtaːtɛ ɛt dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ | ʊt ɛˈoːruːm iːnfiːˈniːtuːm sɪt eːnʊmɛˈraːrɛ sɛnˈtɛntɪaːs || naːm ɛt deː ˈfɪguːriːs dɛˈoːruːm | ɛt deː ˈlɔkiːs atkwɛ ˈseːdɪbʊs | ɛt deː aːktɪˈoːnɛ ˈwiːtaɪ ˈmʊlta diːˈkʊntʊr || ˈdeːkwɛ iːs ˈsʊmːa phɪlɔsɔˈphoːruːm dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ kɛrˈtaːtʊr || kwɔd ˈweːroː ˈmaksɪmeː ˈreːm kaʊˈsaːmkwɛ ˈkɔntɪnɛt ˈʊtruːm ˈnɪhɪl ˈagant | ˈnɪhɪl moːlɪˈantʊr | ˈɔmniː kuːraːtɪˈoːnɛ ɛt admɪnɪstraːtɪˈoːnɛ ˈreːruːm ˈwakɛnt || an ˈkɔntraː ab ˈɪiːs ɛt aː priːnˈkɪpɪoː ˈɔmnɪa ˈfakta ɛt koːnstɪˈtuːta sɪnt | ɛt ad iːnfiːˈniːtuːm ˈtɛmpʊs reːˈgantʊr atkwɛ mɔwɛˈantʊr || ɪn ˈpriːmiːs kwaɪ ˈmagna dɪsˈseːnsɪoː ɛst || ˈɛakwɛ nɪsiː diːjuːdɪˈkaːtʊr | ɪn ˈsʊmːoː ɛrˈroːrɛ nɛˈkɛsːɛ ɛst ˈhɔmɪneːs atkwɛ ɪn maksɪˈmaːruːm ˈreːruːm ɪgnoːraːtɪˈoːnɛ wɛrˈsaːriː/
Transliteration:
  • Kŭi ŭehro deohs essedi ksehrunt tanta sunt in ŭarietahte et dissehnsiohne, ut eohrũ ihnfihtũ sit ehnumerahre sententiahs. Nahm et deh figuhrihs deohrũ, et de lokihs atkŭe sehdibus, et de ahktiohne ŭihtæ multa di kuntur. Dehkŭe ihs summa pxilosopxohrũ dissehnsiohne kertahtur. Kŭod ŭehro maksime rẽ kausahmkŭe kontinet utrũh nixil agant, nixil mohliantur, omnih kuhrahriohne et administrahtiohne rehrũ ŭakent. An kontra ab iihs et a prihnkipio omnia fakta et kohnstituhta sint, et ad ihnfihnihtũ tempus rehgantur atkŭe moŭeantur. In prihmihs kŭai magna dissehnsio est. Eakŭe nisi dihĭuhdikahtur, in summo errohre nekesse est xominehs atkŭe in maksimahrũ rerũ ignohrahtiohne ŭersahri.
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Qwynegold »

Inspired by my conlang Qwynegold
/p t k/
<p t k/c/q>
/b d g/
<b d g>
/f s h/
<f/ph s/c/z h/ch/gh>
/m n l r w j/
<m n l r/rh v/w j/y>
[ks kw]
<x/ks qu/qw>
<k> is used before short vowels, <c> /k/ before /u: o: a:/, and <q> before /i: e:/. <f> is used before short vowels and <ph> before long vowels. <s> is used before /I U u: E O o: a a:/, <c> /s/ before /i: e:/, and <z> before /u: o: a:/. <h> is used before short vowels, <ch> before /i: e:/, and <gh> before /u: o: a:/. <r v j x qu> is used before short vowels and <rh w y ks qw> before long.
<e> is put wordfinally if the final syllable contains a long vowel and none of the above ways can be used for marking vowel length. Wordfinal /e: E/ is written <eh> in polysyllabic words; in monosyllabic words only /e:/ is written <eh>.
If none of the above methods can be applied, then coda consonants after long vowel are written like this: /k/ <q>, /f/ <ph>, /s/ <z>, /r/ <rh>, /ks/ <ks>.
If vowel length still can't be marked, then macron is used.
  • All consonants except /h w/ can be geminated intervocalically. /apːɛndɪks/ 'supplement'.
    Geminated consonants: <pp tt kk cc kq bb dd gg ff fph ss sc zz mm nn ll rr rrh jj yy>. However, the first of these consonants may change to mark the previous vowel as long. (<ck> is used instead of <qk>.)
  • /m/ word-finally or before /f/ (always after a vowel in such cases), depending on the speaker and period, is [m], is silent, or is a marker of nasalization and elongation of the previous vowel. /luːktuːm/ 'mourning, grief', example pronunciations: [ˈluːktũː ˈluːktʊm ˈluktum ˈluːktuː].
    Nasalization used here; marked with tilde.
  • A similar observation goes for /n/ before /f s h/: [n], silent, or a mark of nasalization.
    Nasalization used here; marked with tilde.
  • An exophoneme exists: /dz/, taken from Greek. /baptiːdzaːrɛ/ 'to baptize'.
    <dz>
/iː ɪ - uː ʊ/
<i i u u>
/eː ɛ - oː ɔ/
<e e o o>
/aː a/
<a a>
/aɪ oɪ aʊ/
<ai oi au>
  • An exophoneme exists: /y/, taken from Greek. /aɪgyptʊs/ 'Egypt'.
    <y>
/kwiː weːroː ˈdɛoːs ˈɛsːɛ diːˈkseːrʊnt ˈtanta sʊnt ɪn warɪɛˈtaːtɛ ɛt dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ | ʊt ɛˈoːruːm iːnfiːˈniːtuːm sɪt eːnʊmɛˈraːrɛ sɛnˈtɛntɪaːs || naːm ɛt deː ˈfɪguːriːs dɛˈoːruːm | ɛt deː ˈlɔkiːs atkwɛ ˈseːdɪbʊs | ɛt deː aːktɪˈoːnɛ ˈwiːtaɪ ˈmʊlta diːˈkʊntʊr || ˈdeːkwɛ iːs ˈsʊmːa phɪlɔsɔˈphoːruːm dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ kɛrˈtaːtʊr || kwɔd ˈweːroː ˈmaksɪmeː ˈreːm kaʊˈsaːmkwɛ ˈkɔntɪnɛt ˈʊtruːm ˈnɪhɪl ˈagant | ˈnɪhɪl moːlɪˈantʊr | ˈɔmniː kuːraːtɪˈoːnɛ ɛt admɪnɪstraːtɪˈoːnɛ ˈreːruːm ˈwakɛnt || an ˈkɔntraː ab ˈɪiːs ɛt aː priːnˈkɪpɪoː ˈɔmnɪa ˈfakta ɛt koːnstɪˈtuːta sɪnt | ɛt ad iːnfiːˈniːtuːm ˈtɛmpʊs reːˈgantʊr atkwɛ mɔwɛˈantʊr || ɪn ˈpriːmiːs kwaɪ ˈmagna dɪsˈseːnsɪoː ɛst || ˈɛakwɛ nɪsiː diːjuːdɪˈkaːtʊr | ɪn ˈsʊmːoː ɛrˈroːrɛ nɛˈkɛsːɛ ɛst ˈhɔmɪneːs atkwɛ ɪn maksɪˈmaːruːm ˈreːruːm ɪgnoːraːtɪˈoːnɛ wɛrˈsaːriː/
Qwi werho deoz esseh diqcerunt tanta sunt in varietāteh et dissẽsiōneh, ut eōrhũ ĩphinītũ sit ēnumerhareh sẽ tentiaz. Nã et deh figūrhis deōrũ, et deh loqis atque cedibus, et deh aqtiōneh witai multa dīkuntur. Dēqueh iz summa p'hilosopghorũ dissẽsiōneh kertātur. Quod weroe maximee rẽ kauzamqueh kontinet utrũ nihil agant, nihil mōliantur, omnie curhatiōneh et administrhatiōneh rherũ vakent. An kontrha ab iiz et ae prhinkipioe omnia fakta et kõstitūta sint, et ad ĩphinītũ tempus rhegantur atqueh moveantur. In prhimiz quai magna dissẽsioe est. Eaqueh nici dīyudicatur, in summoe errhoreh nekesseh est hominez atqueh in maximārũ rherũ ignōrhatiōneh verzarhi.
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Pole, the »

/p t k/ ‹p t¹ k²›
/b d g/ ‹b d g›
/f s h/ ‹chw s³ ch›
/m n l r j w/ ‹m n l r j w›
/mm nn ll rr jj/ ‹ḿ ń ł ŕ ji›
/dz/ ‹ż›

¹) ‹ć› before /e i/
²) ‹c› before /k s/
³) ‹z› after another consonant, including /s/; ‹ś ź› before /e i/

/i i: u u:/ ‹i y u ú›
/e e: o o:/ ‹e é o ó›
/a a:/ ‹a á›
/y/ ‹ÿ›

/VN/ before a homorganic consonant, and also final /Vm/ are written ‹į ų ę ǫ ą› for V = /i u e o a/.


/kwiː weːroː ˈdɛoːs ˈɛsːɛ diːˈkseːrʊnt ˈtanta sʊnt ɪn warɪɛˈtaːtɛ ɛt dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ | ʊt ɛˈoːruːm iːnfiːˈniːtuːm sɪt eːnʊmɛˈraːrɛ sɛnˈtɛntɪaːs || naːm ɛt deː ˈfɪguːriːs dɛˈoːruːm | ɛt deː ˈlɔkiːs atkwɛ ˈseːdɪbʊs | ɛt deː aːktɪˈoːnɛ ˈwiːtaɪ ˈmʊlta diːˈkʊntʊr || ˈdeːkwɛ iːs ˈsʊmːa phɪlɔsɔˈphoːruːm dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ kɛrˈtaːtʊr || kwɔd ˈweːroː ˈmaksɪmeː ˈreːm kaʊˈsaːmkwɛ ˈkɔntɪnɛt ˈʊtruːm ˈnɪhɪl ˈagant | ˈnɪhɪl moːlɪˈantʊr | ˈɔmniː kuːraːtɪˈoːnɛ ɛt admɪnɪstraːtɪˈoːnɛ ˈreːruːm ˈwakɛnt || an ˈkɔntraː ab ˈɪiːs ɛt aː priːnˈkɪpɪoː ˈɔmnɪa ˈfakta ɛt koːnstɪˈtuːta sɪnt | ɛt ad iːnfiːˈniːtuːm ˈtɛmpʊs reːˈgantʊr atkwɛ mɔwɛˈantʊr || ɪn ˈpriːmiːs kwaɪ ˈmagna dɪsˈseːnsɪoː ɛst || ˈɛakwɛ nɪsiː diːjuːdɪˈkaːtʊr | ɪn ˈsʊmːoː ɛrˈroːrɛ nɛˈkɛsːɛ ɛst ˈhɔmɪneːs atkwɛ ɪn maksɪˈmaːruːm ˈreːruːm ɪgnoːraːtɪˈoːnɛ wɛrˈsaːriː/

Kwy wéró deós esze dycźérųt tąta sųt in warietáće et diszénźióne, ut eórų ynchwynytų śit énumeráre śęćęćiás. Ną et dé chwigúrys deórų, et dé lokys atkwe śédibus, et dé ákćióne wytai multa dykųtur. Dékwe ys suḿa pchilosopchórų diszénźióne kertátur. Kwod wéró macźimé rę kausámkwe kǫćinet utrų nichil agąt, nichil móliątur, omny kúráćióne et administráćióne rérų wakęt. An kǫtrá ab iys et á prynkipió omnia chwakta et kónzćitúta śįt, et ad ynchwynytų ćempus régątur atkwe moweątur. In prymys kwai magna disźénźió est. Eakwe nisy dyjúdikátur, in suḿó eŕóre nekesze est chominés atkwe in macźimárų rérų ignóráćióne werzáry.
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.

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ObsequiousNewt
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Á la French:
/p t k/ <p t c/qu>
/b d g/ <b d g/gu>
/f s h/ <f c/ç ch>
/m n l r w j/ <m n l r ou ille>
Words ending in consonants take a final, silent <e> unless the final consonant is a nasal or /r/. /wa/ is written <oi>; /wa:/ is written <oî>.

/iː ɪ - uː ʊ/ <î i oû ou>
/eː ɛ - oː ɔ/ <ai è au o>
/aː a/ <â a>
/yː ʏ/ <û u>
/aɪ oɪ aʊ/ <aï oï aü>
Final /ɛ/ is written <et>.

/kwiː weːroː ˈdɛoːs ˈɛsːɛ diːˈkseːrʊnt ˈtanta sʊnt ɪn warɪɛˈtaːtɛ ɛt dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ | ʊt ɛˈoːruːm iːnfiːˈniːtuːm sɪt eːnʊmɛˈraːrɛ sɛnˈtɛntɪaːs || naːm ɛt deː ˈfɪguːriːs dɛˈoːruːm | ɛt deː ˈlɔkiːs atkwɛ ˈseːdɪbʊs | ɛt deː aːktɪˈoːnɛ ˈwiːtaɪ ˈmʊlta diːˈkʊntʊr || ˈdeːkwɛ iːs ˈsʊmːa phɪlɔsɔˈphoːruːm dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ kɛrˈtaːtʊr || kwɔd ˈweːroː ˈmaksɪmeː ˈreːm kaʊˈsaːmkwɛ ˈkɔntɪnɛt ˈʊtruːm ˈnɪhɪl ˈagant | ˈnɪhɪl moːlɪˈantʊr | ˈɔmniː kuːraːtɪˈoːnɛ ɛt admɪnɪstraːtɪˈoːnɛ ˈreːruːm ˈwakɛnt || an ˈkɔntraː ab ˈɪiːs ɛt aː priːnˈkɪpɪoː ˈɔmnɪa ˈfakta ɛt koːnstɪˈtuːta sɪnt | ɛt ad iːnfiːˈniːtuːm ˈtɛmpʊs reːˈgantʊr atkwɛ mɔwɛˈantʊr || ɪn ˈpriːmiːs kwaɪ ˈmagna dɪsˈseːnsɪoː ɛst || ˈɛakwɛ nɪsiː diːjuːdɪˈkaːtʊr | ɪn ˈsʊmːoː ɛrˈroːrɛ nɛˈkɛsːɛ ɛst ˈhɔmɪneːs atkwɛ ɪn maksɪˈmaːruːm ˈreːruːm ɪgnoːraːtɪˈoːnɛ wɛrˈsaːriː/

Transliteration:
Couî ouairau dèauce èçcet dîcçairounte tanta çounte in ouariètâtet ète diççainciaunet, oute èauroûm înfînîtoûm cite ainoumèrâret cèntèntiâce. Nâm ète dai figoûrîce dèauroûm, ète dai loquîce atcouet çaidibouce, ète dai âctiaunet ouîtaï moulta dîcountour. Daicouet îce çoumma philoçophauroûm diççainciaunet quèrtâtour. Couod ouairau maccimai raim caüçamcouet continete outroûm nichile agante, nichile mauliantour, omnî coûrâtiaunet ète adminiçtrâtiaunet rairoûm oiquènte. An contrâ abe iîce ète â prînquipiau omnia facta ète caunçtitoûta cinte, ète ade înfînitoûm tèmpouce ouaigantour atcouet moouèantour. In prîmîce coy mangna diççainciau èçte. èacouet nicî dîlleoûdicâtour in çoummau èrrauret nèqueçcet èçte chominaice atcouet in maccimâroûm rairoûm ingnaurâtiaunet ouèrçârî.

Any native Franks are welcome to correct me.


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by KathTheDragon »

Here's a try á la German:

/p t k/ <p t/dt k/ck>
/b d g/ <b d g>
/f s h/ <f s/ss/ß h>
/m n l r w j/ <m n l r u/w j>
/ks kw gw sw/ <x/ks ku gu su>
/dz/ <z>

/iː ɪ - uː ʊ/ <i/ie/ih i - u/uh u>
/eː ɛ - oː ɔ/ <e/eh/ee/ä/äh e/ä - o/oh/oo o>
/aː a/ <a/ah/aa a>
/yː ʏ/ <ü/üh ü>
/aɪ oɪ aʊ/ <ei eu au>
/y/ <y>

German pronunciation rules will be applied as best I can

/kwiː weːroː ˈdɛoːs ˈɛsːɛ diːˈkseːrʊnt ˈtanta sʊnt ɪn warɪɛˈtaːtɛ ɛt dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ | ʊt ɛˈoːruːm iːnfiːˈniːtuːm sɪt eːnʊmɛˈraːrɛ sɛnˈtɛntɪaːs || naːm ɛt deː ˈfɪguːriːs dɛˈoːruːm | ɛt deː ˈlɔkiːs atkwɛ ˈseːdɪbʊs | ɛt deː aːktɪˈoːnɛ ˈwiːtaɪ ˈmʊlta diːˈkʊntʊr || ˈdeːkwɛ iːs ˈsʊmːa phɪlɔsɔˈphoːruːm dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ kɛrˈtaːtʊr || kwɔd ˈweːroː ˈmaksɪmeː ˈreːm kaʊˈsaːmkwɛ ˈkɔntɪnɛt ˈʊtruːm ˈnɪhɪl ˈagant | ˈnɪhɪl moːlɪˈantʊr | ˈɔmniː kuːraːtɪˈoːnɛ ɛt admɪnɪstraːtɪˈoːnɛ ˈreːruːm ˈwakɛnt || an ˈkɔntraː ab ˈɪiːs ɛt aː priːnˈkɪpɪoː ˈɔmnɪa ˈfakta ɛt koːnstɪˈtuːta sɪnt | ɛt ad iːnfiːˈniːtuːm ˈtɛmpʊs reːˈgantʊr atkwɛ mɔwɛˈantʊr || ɪn ˈpriːmiːs kwaɪ ˈmagna dɪsˈseːnsɪoː ɛst || ˈɛakwɛ nɪsiː diːjuːdɪˈkaːtʊr | ɪn ˈsʊmːoː ɛrˈroːrɛ nɛˈkɛsːɛ ɛst ˈhɔmɪneːs atkwɛ ɪn maksɪˈmaːruːm ˈreːruːm ɪgnoːraːtɪˈoːnɛ wɛrˈsaːriː/

Kui weroh deos esse diexerunt tanta sunt inn warriättate edt disseensione, udt eorum ienfinitum sidt enummerrare sententias. Nam edt de figguris deorum, edt de lockis atkue sedibbuß, edt de aaktione witei multa dikunturr. Deekue is summa phillossophorum disseensione kerraturr. Kuodd weroh maksimmeh rem kausaamkue kontinnedt utrum nihhill aggant, nihhill molianturr omni kuratione edt adminnistratione rerum wackent. Ann kontrah abb iis edt ah prienkippio omnia fakta edt koonstittuta sint, edt add ienfinitum tempuß reganturr atkue mowweanturr. Inn primis kuei magna disseensionest. Eakue nißi dijudickaturr, inn summoh errore neckesse est homminnes atkue inn maksimmarum rerum ignoratione wersari.

That could probably be done much, much better.

Šọ̈́gala
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Šọ̈́gala »

One way to write Latin that would be very interesting would be a system of Chinese characters, à la kanji ... although, if I were designing it, I would try to make it work without resort to any kana. Obviously, an effort like that would require an extremely deep knowledge not just of Latin, but of written Chinese.

As an example, one might write

来到俺,看到俺,征到俺

to be read

veni, vidi, vici

with 来,看, and 征 representing the roots; 到 representing the perfect; 俺 representing the first person singular; and the active voice (along with anything else I'm forgetting) considered default and unmarked.

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Rhetorica
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Rhetorica »

Šọ̈́gala wrote:来到俺,看到俺,征到俺
Darn, and I was just about to try and be clever with a bad Greek orthography.

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finlay
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by finlay »

Or like Japanese, although it maybe wouldn't be pretty.

来に、見ぢ、征き

well not soooo bad at least.

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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Nortaneous »

Quy vezou deous esse dykseizũt tãta sũt ĩ varjetahte et disseĩsjoune, ut eouzum ỹfynytum sit einumerauze sẽtẽtjaus. Nam et dei figuzys deouzum, et dei lokys atque sehdibus, et dei ahktjoune vytai multa dykũtur. Deique ys summa philosophozum disseinsjoune kertahtur. Quod veizou maksimei zeim kaosamque kõtinet utrum nihil agãt, nihil mouljãtur, õny kuzahtjoune et administrahtjoune rezum vakẽt. An kontrau ab iys et au prynkipjou õnja fakta et kounstituhta sĩt, et ad ynfynytum tempus reigãtur atque moveãtur. In prymys quai magna disseinsjou est. Eaque nisy dyjuhdikahtur, in summou erroze nekesse est homineis atque in maksimazum rezum ignozahtjoune versazy.
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Nortaneous »

/p t k/ <ܦ ܬ ܟ>
/b d g/ <ܒ ܕ ܓ>
/f s h/ <ܦ ܣ ܗ>
/m n l r w j/ <ܡ ܢ ܠ ܪ ܘ ܝ>

/iː ɪ - uː ʊ/ <ܝ 0 ܘ 0>
/eː ɛ - oː ɔ/ <ܥ 0 ܘ 0>
/aː a/ <ܐ 0>
/aɪ oɪ aʊ/ <ܐܝ ܘܝ ܐܘ>

ܟܘܝ ܘܥܪܘ ܕܘܣ ܣܣ ܕܝܟܣܥܪܢܬ ܬܢܬ ܣܢܬ ܢ ܘܪܬܐܬ ܬ ܕܣܣܥܢܣܘܢ, ܬ ܘܪܘܡ ܝܢܦܝܢܝܬܘܡ ܣܬ ܥܢܡܪܐܪ ܣܢܬܢܬܐܣ. ܢܐܡ ܬ ܕܥ ܦܓܘܪܝܣ ܕܘܪܘܡ, ܬ ܕܥ ܠܟܝܣ ܬܟܘ ܣܥܕܒܣ, ܬ ܕܥ ܐܟܬܘܢ ܘܝܬ ܡܠܬ ܕܝܟܢܬܪ. ܕܥܟܘ ܝܣ ܣܡܡ ܦܠܣܦܦܘܪܘܡ ܕܣܣܥܢܣܘܢ ܟܪܬܐܬܪ. ܟܘܕ ܘܥܪܘ ܡܟܣܡܥ ܪܥܡ ܟܣܐܡܟܘ ܟܢܬܢܬ ܬܪܘܡ ܢܗܠ ܓܢܬ, ܢܗܠ ܡܘܠܢܬܪ, ܡܢܝ ܟܘܪܐܬܘܢ ܬ ܕܡܢܣܬܪܐܬܘܢ ܪܥܪܘܡ ܘܟܢܬ. ܢ ܟܢܬܪܐ ܒ ܝܣ ܬ ܐ ܦܪܝܢܟܦܘ ܡܢ ܦܟܬ ܬ ܟܘܢܣܬܬܘܬ ܣܢܬ, ܬ ܕ ܝܢܦܝܢܝܬܘܡ ܬܡܦܣ ܪܥܓܢܬܪ ܬܟܘ ܡܘܢܬܪ. ܢ ܦܪܝܡܝܣ ܟܘ ܡܓܢ ܕܣܣܥܢܣܘ ܣܬ. ܟܘ ܢܣܝ ܕܝܘܕܟܐܬܪ, ܢ ܣܡܡܘ ܪܪܘܪ ܢܟܣܣ ܣܬ ܗܡܢܥܣ ܬܟܘ ܢ ܡܟܣܡܐܪܘܡ ܪܥܪܘܡ ܓܢܘܪܐܬܘܢ ܘܪܣܐܪܝ

kwy werw dws ss dyksernt tnt snt n wrtat t dssenswn, t wrwm ynpynytwm st enmrar sntntas. nam t de pgwrys dwrwm, t de lkys tkw sedbs, t de aktwn wyt mlt dykntr. dekw ys smm plsppwrwm dssenswn krtatr. kwd werw mksme rem ksamkw kntnt trwm nhl gnt, nhl mwlntr, mny kwratwn t dmnstratwn rerwm wknt. n kntra b ys t a prynkpw mn pkt t kwnsttwt snt, t d ynpynytwm tmps regntr tkw mwntr. n prymys kw mgn dssensw st. kw nsy dywdkatr, n smmw rrwr nkss st hmnes tkw n mksmarwm rerwm gnwratwn wrsary
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Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

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Ser
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Ser »

Šọ̈́gala wrote:One way to write Latin that would be very interesting would be a system of Chinese characters, à la kanji ... although, if I were designing it, I would try to make it work without resort to any kana. Obviously, an effort like that would require an extremely deep knowledge not just of Latin, but of written Chinese.

As an example, one might write

来到俺,看到俺,征到俺

to be read

veni, vidi, vici

with 来,看, and 征 representing the roots; 到 representing the perfect; 俺 representing the first person singular; and the active voice (along with anything else I'm forgetting) considered default and unmarked.
Goddamn, that looks like one interesting challenge...
Rhetorica wrote:
Šọ̈́gala wrote:来到俺,看到俺,征到俺
Darn, and I was just about to try and be clever with a bad Greek orthography.
Whatever, do the bad Greek thing anyway.
finlay wrote:Or like Japanese, although it maybe wouldn't be pretty.

来に、見ぢ、征き

well not soooo bad at least.
This too.

EDIT: Oh, there you go. I was totally surprised, disappointed even, that Nortaneous hadn't attempted rendering this with Syriac yet.

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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by clawgrip »

Because I've been on an Egyptian thing recently, I now present to you perhaps the most impractical orthography for Latin ever:
Šọ̈́gala wrote:veni, vidi, vici
Image
Serafín wrote:/kwiː weːroː ˈdɛoːs ˈɛsːɛ diːˈkseːrʊnt ˈtanta sʊnt ɪn warɪɛˈtaːtɛ ɛt dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ | ʊt ɛˈoːruːm iːnfiːˈniːtuːm sɪt eːnʊmɛˈraːrɛ sɛnˈtɛntɪaːs/
Image

EDIT: I made a handy key:
Image
Last edited by clawgrip on Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Click
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Click »

/p t k/ cv t c
/b d g/ gv d g
/f s h/ chv s ch
/m n l r w j/ m n r z v y

/iː ɪ - uː ʊ/ í ı óv ov
/eː ɛ - oː ɔ/ é e ó o
/aː a/ á a
/aɪ oɪ aʊ/ aı áı av

/k{n t d s ks l r}ɪV/ ʼ{ň č ǧ x̌ ř ž}V
/CıV/ CyV
/C[-nasal]CC/ ʼCC
/ph/ tchv

Hiatus is marked by a y and gemination is ignored. Length is not marked in final syllables.

/Vn{# C} ks/ v̨{# C} x

Cvı vézo deyos ese díxérǫvt tąta sǫvt ı̨ važetáte et dısę́šóne, ovt eyózǫv ı̨́chvínítǫv énovmezáze sętęčás. Ną et de chvıgóvzıs deyórǫv, et de rocıs aʼcve sédıgvovs, et de áʼčóne vítaı movrta dícǫvtovz. Décve ıs sǫvma tchvırosotchvórǫv dısę́šóne ceztátovz. Cvod vézo maxıme rę cavsą́cve cǫtınet ovrtǫv nıchır agąt, nıhır móřątovz, ǫnı cóvzáčóne et admınıʼtzáčóne zézǫv vacęt. Ą cǫtra agv ıyıs et a cvrı̨́cıchyo ǫňa chvacta et cǫ́stıtóvta sı̨t, et ad ı̨́chvínítǫv tęcvovs zégątovz aʼcve moveyątovz. Į cvrímıs cvaı magna dısę́šo est. Eyacve nısı díyóvdıcatovz, ın sǫvmó ezóze necese est chomınes aʼcve ın macımázǫv zézǫv ıgnózáčóne vezsázı.
/kwiː weːroː ˈdɛoːs ˈɛsːɛ diːˈkseːrʊnt ˈtanta sʊnt ɪn warɪɛˈtaːtɛ ɛt dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ | ʊt ɛˈoːruːm iːnfiːˈniːtuːm sɪt eːnʊmɛˈraːrɛ sɛnˈtɛntɪaːs || naːm ɛt deː fɪˈguːriːs dɛˈoːruːm | ɛt deː ˈlɔkiːs atkwɛ ˈseːdɪbʊs | ɛt deː aːktɪˈoːnɛ ˈwiːtaɪ ˈmʊlta diːˈkʊntʊr || ˈdeːkwɛ iːs ˈsʊmːa phɪlɔsɔˈphoːruːm dɪsːeːnsɪˈoːnɛ kɛrˈtaːtʊr || kwɔd ˈweːroː ˈmaksɪmeː ˈreːm kaʊˈsaːmkwɛ ˈkɔntɪnɛt ˈʊtruːm ˈnɪhɪl ˈagant | ˈnɪhɪl moːlɪˈantʊr | ˈɔmniː kuːraːtɪˈoːnɛ ɛt admɪnɪstraːtɪˈoːnɛ ˈreːruːm ˈwakɛnt || an ˈkɔntraː ab ˈɪiːs ɛt aː priːnˈkɪpɪoː ˈɔmnɪa ˈfakta ɛt koːnstɪˈtuːta sɪnt | ɛt ad iːnfiːˈniːtuːm ˈtɛmpʊs reːˈgantʊr atkwɛ mɔwɛˈantʊr || ɪn ˈpriːmiːs kwaɪ ˈmagna dɪsˈseːnsɪoː ɛst || ˈɛakwɛ nɪsiː diːjuːdɪˈkaːtʊr | ɪn ˈsʊmːoː ɛrˈroːrɛ nɛˈkɛsːɛ ɛst ˈhɔmɪneːs atkwɛ ɪn maksɪˈmaːruːm ˈreːruːm ɪgnoːraːtɪˈoːnɛ wɛrˈsaːriː/

hwhatting
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by hwhatting »

Clawgrip's proposal is the prettiest. Go hieroglyphs!

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ObsequiousNewt
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Rhetorica wrote:
Šọ̈́gala wrote:来到俺,看到俺,征到俺
Darn, and I was just about to try and be clever with a bad Greek orthography.
Me too. I guess I'll try a bad Hangeul orthography instead.


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

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Nortaneous
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Nortaneous »

/p t k/ <p t ch~k>
/b d g/ <b d c>
/f s h/ <fh s~ss h> (<ss> s:, <ſs> s)
/m n l r w j/ <m n l z~s f i>

/iː ɪ - uː ʊ/ <ei i oi u>
/eː ɛ - oː ɔ/ <ai e au o>
/aː a/ <a a>
/aɪ oɪ aʊ/ <ä ö af>

Chfei faisau deaus esse deixaiſũt tanta sũt ĩ faſietate et dissenſiaune, ut eauſoĩ eĩfheineitoĩ ſit ainumeſaſe ſẽtẽtias. Nã et dai fhicoiſeis deauſoĩ, et dai locheis atchfe ſaidibus, et dai achtiaune feitä multa deikũtuz. Daichfe eis ſũma philosophauſoĩ dissaĩſsiaune cheztatuz. Chfod faiſau maximai zaĩ kafsãchfe kõtinet utzoĩ nihil acãt, nihil mauliãtuz, õnei kaũſtitoita ſĩt, et ad eĩfheĩneitoĩ tẽpus zaicãtuz atchfe mofeãtuz. Ĩ preimeis chfä macna dissaĩſiau eſt. Eachfe niſsei deioidikatuz, ĩ ſũmau ezzauſe nechesse eſt hominais atchfe ĩ maximazoĩ zaizoĩ icnauſatiaune fezſaſei.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

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Nortaneous
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Nortaneous »

kuwii weezoo deoos esse diikuseezunt tanta sunt in wajietaate et disseenshioone, ut eorun iinfinitsun shit eenumeraare sentenchiaas.

クヰイ ヱエゾオ デオオㇲ エッセ ヂイクセエズンㇳ タンタ スンㇳ イン ワジエタアテ エㇳ ヂッセンシオオネ、 ウㇳ エオオズン イインフィニイツン シㇳ エエヌメザアゼ センテンチアアㇲ.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

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Click
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Click »

An abjad version.

/p t k/ p t k
/b d g/ b d g
/f s h/ f s a
/m n l r w j/ m n r l u ı

/iː ɪ - uː ʊ/ ı ı u u
/eː ɛ - oː ɔ/ ı 0 u 0
/aː a/ a a
/aɪ oɪ aʊ/ aı uı au

Unstressed short vowels are not written.

Kuı uıru dıus ess dıksırnt tant sunt ın urtat ıt dsınsun, ıt urum ınfınıtum sıt ınmrar sntıntas. Nam ıt dı fgurıs durum, ıt dı lkıs atku sıdbs, ıt dı aktun uıtaı mult dıkntr.

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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Out of curiosity, Click, are you Turkish?


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

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Nortaneous
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Nortaneous »

dʒɫɯtʃk
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

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Pole, the
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Re: Anti-romanization challenge: make Latin spelling interes

Post by Pole, the »

ObsequiousNewt wrote:Out of curiosity, Click, are you Turkish?
He's an ı-phile.
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.

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