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Ablaut and Pitch Accent

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:25 pm
by PVER•PVERVM•AMAT
Would it be plausible to have a language in which: a pitch accent exists, two tense exist and the marked tense is marked by ablaut of the accented syllable/mora? If so, how could this derive diachronically?

Re: Ablaut and Pitch Accent

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:04 pm
by ObsequiousNewt
It doesn't have to derive from something. Our (earliest) reconstruction of PIE started with something similar to that.

Re: Ablaut and Pitch Accent

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:28 pm
by PVER•PVERVM•AMAT
Thank you very much. Now, I have another question: in a pitch accent language, could something similar to blank verse exist, but with pitch instead of stress?

Re: Ablaut and Pitch Accent

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:57 pm
by Jipí
Sure. I was gonna mention Greek, but that uses syllable weight, not pitch, as the basis for its meters.

I don't know what you've read about ablaut so far, but if you haven't already looked it up, read on its development from PIE on (ē/ō ~ e/o ~ Ø > millenia of sound change > a whole bunch of series) to not get stupid and unreasonable results. Wikipedia should be helpful there.

Re: Ablaut and Pitch Accent

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:02 pm
by ObsequiousNewt
Jipí wrote:Sure, look at Greek.

I don't know what you've read about ablaut so far, but if you haven't already looked it up, read on its development from PIE on (ē/ō ~ e/o ~ Ø > millenia of sound change > a whole bunch of series) to not get stupid and unreasonable results. Wikipedia should be helpful there.
What I've read about Greek (not very much) seems to suggest that meter was based on length, not tone.

Re: Ablaut and Pitch Accent

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:02 pm
by Jipí
ObsequiousNewt wrote:What I've read about Greek (not very much) seems to suggest that meter was based on length, not tone.
Yes, sorry, I corrected myself in a ninja edit already.

Re: Ablaut and Pitch Accent

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:46 pm
by PVER•PVERVM•AMAT
All right. Do you know any good books on PIE ablaut?

Re: Ablaut and Pitch Accent

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:26 pm
by Dewrad
I'm not sure there are any books devoted solely to just that topic, but any decent handbook should cover the basics reasonably.

Re: Ablaut and Pitch Accent

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:56 pm
by Drydic
ObsequiousNewt wrote:It doesn't have to derive from something. Our (earliest) reconstruction of PIE started with something similar to that.
Well it does, but that something isn't always recoverable.