zompist bboard

I just realized that we haven't had (at least not recently) a thread about conreligions so I thought that it would be a good idea for discussion or questions and so on.

Yes! I love conreligions. Your post is kind of not so very inspired, though.
One of the last things I did with my old conworld <which I may revisit but is as of now shelved because I felt stuck> is that the main religion of the empire is the product of a bunch of sages, including their equivalent of Aristotle, getting together and figuring out what should people believe in order for them to behave properly in society. One of the higher mysteries of the religion, taught only to initiates, is this fact: that its all made up. Of course, that means there's a whole underlying *actual* religion <or belief system or ideology> below that one... but I thought it was an interesting idea.

Torco wrote:Yes! I love conreligions. Your post is kind of not so very inspired, though.

I know, I was being rushed because I posted between classes. I was going to edit before someone replied but oh well.

Ha! your plan has been foiled.

speaking of which, have people here done any monotheistic conreligions?

Torco wrote:Ha! your plan has been foiled.

speaking of which, have people here done any monotheistic conreligions?

Yes, many. Went through a whole conreligion phase a while back.

Surprised by the question, though. Isn't monotheism common?

Actual monotheism is common, and I thought since people might not want to replicate the religion of the culture they grew up in they'd go to polytheism more readily: I know I'm not wise enough yet to make a proper monotheistic conreligion without it being either a comment on abrahamic monotheism or a rehashing thereof but more of its Own Thing.

Bitheism FTW!

Pitheism! we have slightly more than three gods, our oracles are figuring out exactly how many as we speak

Torco wrote:Pitheism! we have slightly more than three gods, our oracles are figuring out exactly how many as we speak

Nice.

Torco wrote:Ha! your plan has been foiled.

speaking of which, have people here done any monotheistic conreligions?

I actually started making one yesterday. That's it.

Imralu wrote:Bitheism FTW!

My favorite conreligion of mine is bitheistic. It's not to developed but it has lots of traditions and castes, a few stories to.

The furless worships a monotheistic goddess with split personality disorder. In this framework acicdents and misfortune is caused by the Goddess relapsing to the demon inside her.

There's a legend behind this half-insane goddess. More details to follow, if anyone is interested.

The texts of the Laikyâr religion are all written in Kämpya (although not all Kämpya speakers follow Laikyâr). It is a gnostic religion which holds that the world was created by "the forces of evil", which, however, are not omnipotent. By purifying one's mind, it is possible to escape the world upon death, and attain a Nirvana like state. Laikyâr holds that to purify one's mind, one must renounce worldly desires and dedicate oneself to "good causes". However, different sects sharply disagree on the best way to do this.

The Sákini believe that a warrior lifestyle is by far the easiest path to mental purification, since by taking up arms one accepts the real possibility that one may lose everything (even one's life), and is thus clearly a severing of ties to worldly things. Furthermore, they feel that it is possible to achieve much good by combating evil.

The Ämonya, on the other hand, have orders of monks and nuns that maintain temples and provide free education. They dislike violence, and feel that helping and teaching others is the best way to achieve mental purification.

Both, however, periodically have rituals where they subject themselves to severe ordeals, which they believe helps in mental purification.

Dualism between "good" and "evil" is very important in the religion, but it has no god(s). However it does have a multitude of saints, as well as an extensive demonology. Would this be a polytheistic religion, or an atheistic religion?

There are no religions in my conworld of Maikros that can be called, in their entirety, monotheistic. There is one sect of one religion that leans towards a monotheistic interpretation of its pantheonic faith, but it is most definitely not the mainstream interpretation. There are, however, several monolatristic religions.

The Glaagh have a very... eccentric, to say the least, religious system. The core of it is fairly simple:
1.) There is a Divine Entity of some flavor or description that manifests itself in Its "Representatives on Earth". These number about twenty (though the number is taught to be "uncountable"), each of which is the Representative for some vague aspect such as nature, fire, knowledge, and the such. (The Glaagh word for "god", in fact, refers to a "Representative on Earth".)
2.) The Divine Entity (for lack of a better phrase) governs mankind through its Representatives and a Code of Morality, Purity, and Divinity.
3.) Those who adhere to the Code are graced with divine protection, life, and, after they leave the earth, continued existence in a Paradise.
4.) Those who do not are impure beings unworthy of existence and who, after death, shall cease to exist.
5.) The Code is to be enforced, no matter the cost.

The Code is fairly intricate and detailed, covering almost all aspects of life from birth to death and beyond. Offenses against the Code are graded into two types: those which secure the damnation and immolation of just the person who committed the offense and those which entail a "corruption of blood" that imposes damnation against the offender and three generations of family from said person.

The Jdag follow a religion known as Pacÿn. There's a strict moral code and system of religious codes & taboos covering relations within their community. Outside it, an Idakṣ may do as he wishes... no deed done against non-Jdag - or Cuäc, from cuer "filth" - is forbidden. If the Cuät ever found out what the Pacÿn scriptures dictated they would riot, surely, and oust all the Jdag from their society... luckily the Jdag are close-knit and mindful of this, so Cuät who go too near Jdẫg places of worship end up missing or dead. Other cultures around the Idẫg believe in universally-applicable morals, the fools... Jdag have achieved positions of high power in their societies

v subtle

R.Rusanov wrote:The Jdag follow a religion known as Pacÿn. There's a strict moral code and system of religious codes & taboos covering relations within their community. Outside it, an Idakṣ may do as he wishes... no deed done against non-Jdag - or Cuäc, from cuer "filth" - is forbidden. If the Cuät ever found out what the Pacÿn scriptures dictated they would riot, surely, and oust all the Jdag from their society... luckily the Jdag are close-knit and mindful of this, so Cuät who go too near Jdẫg places of worship end up missing or dead. Other cultures around the Idẫg believe in universally-applicable morals, the fools... Jdag have achieved positions of high power in their societies

Ok, the whole "religion of evil", "they kill you at their temples", "they control society", and "they lie about their true nature" sounds a lot like something from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Let me be perfectly clear, I am not saying that anything like that is intentional. What I am saying is that any religion of evil, or any secret cabal of believers will have parallels to that or something similar (such as Paisley-style Anti-Roman Catholic sentiment). Something to keep in mind.

yes but rusanov is incapable of doing anything without going BEEP BOOP I AM A FASCIST and as you will notice they are not called the ktholgk

Jesus. Are y'all anti-semitic? Why would you think the Jdag represent Jewish people when 1. they're portrayed sympathetically in my conworld and 2. the only similarity you can draw involves some long discredited text and nostratic-style sound associations

Let it be noted the Jdag have nothing to do with Jewish people, and making such a connection is pretty damn disgusting. I'm ashamed of humanity right now.

Again, no one said it was intentional, but they *do* echo some antisemitic ideas. I bet they echo the Illuminati as well!
That doesn't mean Rusanov is antisemitic nort don't be silly, no matter how quasi-fascistoid he may be with regards to other things.

In the Theosts there are different perspectives of magic, which gives each culture some of its religious perspective. Also it defines different epochs layers present within the cultures.

The first epoch is pure, instinctive magic, before humans reached the Great Island. The second epoch are primitive peoples that follow shamanic and animistic practices, which is their way of connecting with the magic of the first eopch. The third epoch is the beginning of the manipulation of magical energies, though in an aggresive way, since the second wave of humans were warriors. Though their magic is still very much connected to the land and the shamanic practices of old. The third epoch is one where the manipulation is High Magic, very sophisticated and even technological, but not so connected to the land. This disconnection proves unstable, and eventually brings in the fifth epoch and the fourth wave of humans: highly materialistic, distaining of magic, yet highly superstitious. They keep their gods at arms length, yet they are emotionally dependent of their gods, fearing to have them, yet fearing not to have them. There are prophecies that describe a sixth epoch, initiated with fisth wave of people that will integrate the previous systems of magic into one system, ruled over by a "higher spirit".
Here's more on the story.

The Alahithians go in for Jungian archetypal stuff. Their gods are really structures of their own unconscious.They have a sense of spirituality, but it doesn't include "other worlds" or disembodied entities. It is simply the symbolic investigation and expression of their psyches in their here-and-now lives, not a hope or wish of "something more". It does indeed allow them to investigate, or even create, their "place in the cosmos". Part of that is they have a sense of being taken from their homeworld (Earth) and a need to return to this "promised land", which is embodied in their institutions and ceremonies.

Da Gnoamz... I'm not sure yet. I've got a feeling that they find symbolic and abstract thinking a little difficult. The older ones have attained "special skills" (like the ability to understand what maps are for) and are held in high regard, perhaps superstitiously, if not religiously.

I didn't know di/bi/double-theism was so popular! That's the system I've had for the Taahe for a while. I haven't developed it too much but basically the two deities have an opposition thing going on. People who want to be monks/nuns go to worship one of the two gods specifically, and they try to keep both sets with about the same amount of members. If they don't, then when the unevenly powerful god becomes enraged they will destroy the world (by fire or flooding depending on which one it is). Also Kíihes'éw (land of the Taahe) is a theocracy, so blasphemy etc. is illegal.

R.Rusanov wrote:Jesus. Are y'all anti-semitic? Why would you think the Jdag represent Jewish people when 1. they're portrayed sympathetically in my conworld and 2. the only similarity you can draw involves some long discredited text and nostratic-style sound associations

Let it be noted the Jdag have nothing to do with Jewish people, and making such a connection is pretty damn disgusting. I'm ashamed of humanity right now.

My reasoning is not based on that fact that Jdag and Jewish both start with J. My reasoning is based on the trope of a religion based partly around an evil conspiracy to control the world. As Torc pointed out, the same conspiracy theory can be said of non-religious or quasi-religious associations such as the Illuminati, or the Freemasons, or the Lizard People. I myself also drew comparisons to the anti-Roman Catholic fervor found among some Unionists in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.

The point is that the connection must be from long discredited text because there is no evil [insert group here] plot to control the world. The fact that such aspirations can be transplanted to some many groups in the world of paranoid dillusion is because the boogeyman of an all-controlling and all-evil hand serves a real purpose to bring order to the chaos of the world in the mind of the believer. It is much easier for a conspiracy theorist, to say, believe that some all-powerful cabal is responsible for Kennedy's death than it is to believe that a lone nut took out one of the most powerful men on earth.

As both I and Torc pointed out, this does not mean that this is a purposeful connection. I do not presume anti-Semitism on your part any more than I presume anti-Roman Catholic feelings, anti-Islamic feelings, or anti-any group accused of some sort of all-powerful drive to destroy civilization.

But it is a possible connection that can be drawn. Just like some fake belief system with veneration of a martyred leader can be read as allegory for any number of messianic faiths, most prominently Christianity.

Also, ol bofosh, as there is magic I must ask, are the epochs a figurative thing built into the sister religions or is it a demonstraitable development like the agricultural revolution?

The reason Pacÿn echoes conspiracy theories and other antagonistic philosophies, Rusanov, is that it goes against one of the major reasons real-world religions exist: to expand. A religion that is practised by all has much more resources than one practised by only a few, and in general it takes a lot of turbulence (such as various persecutions of the Jews) to make a culture no longer want to integrate at all.

The kind of hate you're suggesting doesn't conceal very well, either. Realistically, the Idakṣ would start to distrust the Jdag very quickly as they notice the racially-motivated crimes; it would probably only take one headline to spark a witch-hunt. You've outlined a very unstable recipe for a suicidally reckless culture. In practice the only type of malignant religion/culture that really thrives is an empire that can take what it wants and then absorbs new followers, as with the Ottomans, Catholics, or Nazis.

The Old Albic religion is not yet well explored, but it is in some ways similar to that of Tolkien's Quendi. There is, basically, a single God or creative principle named Éa 'The One', which is the ultimate creator of the universe. However, the main target of veneration are Éa's noblest creations, the twelve Macaveni 'Great Spirits', who assisted Éa in the creation of the world and function much like the gods in a typical polytheistic religion. There are also lesser veni, essentially spirits of nature, and a fallen Macavana, Dantaro 'Adversary', not counted among the Twelve, the lord of evil, which is believed to result from the pursuit of perfection, which is considered futile.

A central concept in Old Albic religion is the notion of am Dag 'the Purpose'. What is the Purpose? It is the reason why humans came into being. They were created with the purpose of preserving the world and enriching it with new and beautiful things, and for that reason, human beings are endowed with free will and creativity in the likeness of Éa. In order to fulfil their Purpose, people have to be free, within the limits necessary to keep up a civilized society (basically, the equal freedom of others). A person who has fulfilled his Purpose is admitted to the 'White Silver Plain' Langselberphalas, the abode of the Macaveni, identified with the Moon, upon dying. What happens to a person who dies before fulfilling his Purpose? Simple: they reincarnate.