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zompist bboard • View topic - Lusitanic Rebooted (NP: Epic Poetry)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:27 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Lusitanic Rebooted
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:13 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:36 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:00 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:43 pm 
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C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:44 pm 
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I'll look at this seriously in the morning, when I'm not punch-drunk and going WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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 Post subject: Re: Lusitanic Rebooted
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:02 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:08 am 
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OK, great, it looks like things are going pretty well. I have updated the dual of ā-stem feminines (though not the prehistory- I'll go back and do it at some point but right now I can't be assed).

Some new pronouns tonight, and then I'll try to do the adjectives (which just have recycled noun endings) tomorrow, and then we'll start verbs...those should be pretty clusterfucky.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:26 am 
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Very interesting looking. I noticed that you use ψ in ναψ, but it isn't listed in the orthography. I'm assuming it's pronounced like it's Greek counterpart?

Also, I noticed that η is used for both /ɛ/ and /h/. Is there any definite way to tell the uses apart, like if η is before a vowel, it's /h/, or something like that? And when and where is this supposed to be spoken? I got the impression it was in the Iberian peninsula in the pre-roman times (which would explain the Greek orthography), but if so, how long was it spoken? Will there be any later forms of the language? Was it in the right time and spot to pick up any Punic influence?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:47 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:58 am 
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I like this project. The work put into paying attention to PIE tonic systems and the complexity of nouns and verbs is making me want to continue pushing to get Aquitanian to the same level. Dewrad's Wenetic is the same kind of amazing work that is motivating me to be patient.

I'll have to look into how you described the sound changes in Lusitanic, as it seems to be a similar Western IE based conlang.

Keep at it, I'd love to see more!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:32 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Verbs

Fuckin' finally.

So, just like Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, etc., Lusitanic has a fairly complex verbal system with a full array of tenses and moods. This is going to take some thinking through, but here's what has already been decided by Lusitanic's position within the family tree:

-The perfect and aorist have long since merged into a single preterite. There is no augment.
-There are two voices, active and passive, and the passive is marked by an -r in the endings.
-There is a subjunctive mood descending from a form with a thematic vowel ā. This thematic vowel also forms a denominative conjugation from nouns or adjectives, whose subjunctive derives from the PIE optative -yeh₁- attached the the ā, which was true of Latin ā-stems (I believe- that is where forms like amet derive from, yes?)

In addition to this:

-There is a progressive aspect derived from an affixed form of *steh₂.
-An imperfect tense has been innovated, from the 0-grade of *bʰew-.
-An old PIE desiderative formation has been pressed into service as a future.
-An infinitive has been innovated. It seems likely that there was some sort of PIE infinitive-like formation deriving from something like *-se(n), which would have produced both Greek's -εῖν and Latin's -re infinitives.

Therefore, here are the forms that will exist:

-The indicative mood has present, present progressive, imperfect, preterite, preterite progressive, pluperfect, future, future perfect, and future progressive tenses.
-The subjunctive has present, progressive, and perfect tenses.
-The imperative has present, progressive and future tenses.
-The infinitive and the participles have present, progressive and preterite (perfective) forms.
-All of these exist in both active and passive moods.

--------
The Lusitanic verbal system is complicated enough that verbs do not really fit into separate conjugations as in Latin, but must rather have a principle part system as in Greek. So far, it appears likely that the present indicative active, future indicative active, and preterite indicative active will be principle parts; there will probably be one or two others. We'll see. Paradigms to come.


Last edited by dhok on Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:17 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:19 am 
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Irish STILL doesn't have one. Scottish Gaelic does, though; it is formed by leniting the Verbal Noun (which is mostly a Present Participle, really).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:39 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:47 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:01 am 
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*whistles*

Most impressive. I'm liking the progressives quite a bit.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:47 am 
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No ablaut? :(

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Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:58 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:03 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:24 pm 
Avisaru
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I'll get to the future in a bit. Meanwhile, story time:

άβις ιήπικε

Καμβή, άβις σωκίω σήπα¹ ρώνω βωτ ιήπως ϝεηετά, ήναν σώσεντα σερσάν βρον, ήναν βήηεντα βήρμα θυράν, ήναγκε βήηεντα ιηάν ωκυστί².

¹Lusitanic has no real word for "to have"; instead one says that something is with (καν) or without (σήπα) something.
²The adverbial ending derives from the stem of the adjective, to which the ending -h₁sṇtíh₁ was originally added; the informed may recognize this as the instrumental singular of a participle derived from *h₁es-. Basically, this was originally a sort of absolute construction, the meaning being "with X being (adjective); this fossilized into a set of adverbial endings (a/o-stem -ωστί, i-stem -ιστί, u-stem -υστί).

Τω άβις τιβας ιήπαβας τοϝώ³ βοστά: "Τι σερ μίαν⁴ με ροιώθωτ, ϝήσεντα ιηάν άιεντα ιήπως." Ιήπι σι τοϝί βοσατά: "Κρωσή, άβι, τιω σήρδω νάθρω⁴ ως ροιάν ϝαδώ ϝήσεμες σί: ιηάς, ρεξ, ρώνω⁵ αβής ιήθραν ηερμάν σήβα κερσήτ. Ιήτ άβις σήπα ρώνω ιήθα." Κεπρήψε⁶ σι, άβις άγραν βεϝάς βοστά.
³"Speak" is deponent.
⁴Possessive adjective.
⁵The case government of κερσήσε dictates that the man must make the garment (accusative) from the wool (ablative) of the sheep.
⁶Perfect active participle in the locative absolute.


Last edited by dhok on Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:55 am, edited 5 times in total.

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