Double inflection?

[zyxw59]

In my conlang, nouns can be treated like adjectives, e.g.:
rámi: cat
messá: friend
rámi messá: cat who is also a friend

Adjectives typically agree with the nouns they modify in case and number. But if a noun inflected for one of these is used as an adjective, and the noun it modifies is also inflected, I run into a problem. Do I inflect the inflected form? Keep it as is?

[Vardelm]

In my conlang, nouns can be treated like adjectives, e.g.:
rámi: cat
messá: friend
rámi messá: cat who is also a friend

Adjectives typically agree with the nouns they modify in case and number. But if a noun inflected for one of these is used as an adjective, and the noun it modifies is also inflected, I run into a problem. Do I inflect the inflected form? Keep it as is?

Can you think of an example where they would need to be different? If there is only 1 cat, then both the head noun & descriptor will be singular. If the adjectival noun is instead placed in another noun case, then you might simply have a different meaning, such as with a genitive case: cat who belongs to a friend.

[CaesarVincens]

A similar thing to this is called apposition. With inflection, appositive nouns will usually have the same case and number as the head noun.

"This is the cat, my friendliest pet."
"These are the cats, my friendliest pets."

[zyxw59]

Can you think of an example where they would need to be different?

uwn rawn métur rámijur messáwə.
I go the.LOC cat.LOC friend.LOC
I go to the cat that is a friend.

? uwn rawn métur rámijur messáwrɔr
? I go the.LOC cat.LOC friend.LOC.LOC
I go to my friend's cat.
(For most possessives, my lang uses LOC)

This is kind of an odd example, but my lex isn't very filled out.

[Imralu]

Do you mean, for example, like if a adjective is already in another case because of it's meaning ... as in this fictional version of Finnish I'm making up?

(1a)
talo kissa
house cat
the cat which is a house

(1b)
talolle kissalle
house-to cat-to
to the cat which is a house

(2a)
talossa kissa
house-in cat
the cat which is in the house

(2b)
talossalle kissalle
house-in-to cat-to
to the cat which is in the house

Is that something like what you meant?

[CaesarVincens]

Can you think of an example where they would need to be different?

uwn rawn métur rámijur messáwə.
I go the.LOC cat.LOC friend.LOC
I go to the cat that is a friend.

? uwn rawn métur rámijur messáwrɔr
? I go the.LOC cat.LOC friend.LOC.LOC
I go to my friend's cat.
(For most possessives, my lang uses LOC)

This is kind of an odd example, but my lex isn't very filled out.

Does a possessor normally come after the possessed.

Anyway, contextual differences are fine as well. Consider the two meanings of English's "I hit the man with the rock." (because I don't like him or to tell you which man).

[zyxw59]

Does a possessor normally come after the possessed.

Yeah, possession is formed with the possessor in the locative case as an adjective, and adjectives come after the nouns they modify.

Do you mean, for example, like if a adjective is already in another case because of it's meaning ... as in this fictional version of Finnish I'm making up?

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. I guess my question is, is having two inflections (one for the case/number of the head noun, one for the meaning of the modifying noun) plausible?

[sangi39]

Isn't this an example of case stacking?

Guugu Yalanji

Dicki-ndamun-du kaya-ngka
Dick-GEN-ERG dog-ERG
‘Dick’s dog’

An even more extreme example from the same language:

Ngada yalawu-jarra yakuri-na thabuju-karra-nguni-na mijil-nguni-na.
I catch-PST fish-M.ABL brother-GEN-INST-M.ABL net-INST-M.ABL
‘I caught the fish with brother’s net.’

Source: http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~louisa/n ... July04.pdf

Seems perfectly plausible to me and I've used it in a couple of my conlangs

[Cedh]

Isn't this an example of case stacking?

Yes. It's also called Suffixaufnahme.

Here's another paper about it: http://www.linguistics.ucla.edu/people/ ... fnahme.pdf

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For the related but different phenomenon of Surdéclinaison (which occurs in Basque) see this blogpost by Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets, who uses Surdéclinaison in his conlang Moten.

[zyxw59]

Ah, thank you. Surdéclinaison seems like exactly what I'm trying to do.

[Ngohe]

In my conlang, nouns can be treated like adjectives, e.g.:
rámi: cat
messá: friend
rámi messá: cat who is also a friend

Adjectives typically agree with the nouns they modify in case and number. But if a noun inflected for one of these is used as an adjective, and the noun it modifies is also inflected, I run into a problem. Do I inflect the inflected form? Keep it as is?

I think the expression 'treated like adjectives' is ambiguous. It can mean that they really are adjectives - though derived from nouns. In that case, the genitive (or whatever affix that is used put on the noun to render an adjectival meaning) could be regarded as a derivational affix. If the modifying words are 'true' adjectives, it is plausible (though maybe not necessary) that they should take the same inflections as regular adjectives.

It can also mean that the nouns still are nouns - just that they are used in an adjective-like manner, to modify other nouns. In this case, they could retain their 'nounish' behaviour, and need not take up any 'adjectivish' behaviour.