My first Conlang: Proto-Nevoran

[HaloGeek]

Hi, this is my first Conlang. I'm 13 years old and not a linguistics master, so it probably won't be good. But here it is anyway!

Phonetics: I never understood the whole nasal and fricative thing, so I just made a simple alphabet.

Consonants
B – As in Boat
C – As in City, Ç ç – Pronounced Ch
D – As in Dog
F – As in Form
G – As in Girl
H – As in Heat
J – S as in Usual
K – As in Katrina
L – As in Log
M – As in Mat
N – As in Nerve
P – As in Poverty
Q – As in Question IF USED BEFORE A U. If not, then it is pronounced like K.
R – Spanish R
S – As in Sing, Ś ś – Pronounced Sh
T – As in Torture,
V – As in Vessel
W – As in Walk
X – Kh
Z – as in Zodiac, Ž ž – Zh

Vowels
A – As in Aunt (AHNT), Ã ã – Pronounced as Yah
E – As in Ebony, É é – Pronounced Yeh
I – As in Machine
O – As in Oh
U – As in Until

Verbs

Verbs
Verbs always end in CVC(Consonant-Vowel-Consonant). Conjugation starts with the personal ending for verbs, and then the tense.

Personal Endings
Subjective Example Verb: Sartos – To Go
Note: If the verb is not part of the subject is retains its original form
SUBJECTIVE TABLE
1st Person
I go: Sartu
We go: Sarto
2nd Person
You go: Sartam
You go: Sartam
3rd Person
He goes: Sartel
She goes: Sartal
It goes: Sartil

1st Person Subjective Endings:
I go – Sartu (SINGULAR)
We go – Sarto (PLURAL)

2nd Person Subjective Endings
You go – Sartam (SINGULAR & PLURAL)

3rd Person Subjective Endings
He goes – Sartel (Singular)
She goes – Sartel (Singular)
It goes – Sartel (Singular)
They go – Sartae (Plural)

Tenses
Present(Happening at the time of speaking): Sartun k nayom – I go to market/I am going to the market

Past(Happening during the past): Sartama k nayoma – You went to market

Pluperfect(Occurred in the past): Sartoro k nayomo – We had gone to market

Future(Will occur in the future): Sartele k nayome – He will go to market

Future Perfect(Will eventually occur in the future): Sartilos k nayomos – It will have gone to the market

Note: The vowel match at the end of the object shows that the Object will be affected in that certain time period, and no other time.

Moods
Imperative(Used for commands): “Sartamt k nayom!” – “You will go to the market!”

Adjectives and Adverbs

Adjectives & Adverbs
Adjectives always end in a vowel. Adjectives are changes depending on where they are in the sentence.

Adjective Forms
Example Adjective: Merala – Beautiful (Derived from: Mera – Beauty)

Attributive: Adjective comes before the subject it describes: Merala nora – Beautiful Girl

Predicative: Adjective comes after the subject it describes: Nora meralam – Girl is Beautiful

Adverbs
Adverbs are derived from the adjective and applied to the verb.

Nora spede meralas k nayoma – She ran beautifully to the market.

Nouns

Case Usage and Declension
Proto-Nevoran is an inflected language, making use of eight cases. Because of this, there is a very free sentence structure.

Nominative – Marks subject of the sentence. All nouns begin in this form. Raqel – Piano. Raqel comerasa os nayomae/Os nayomae comerasa raqel/Comerasa os nayomae raqel: The piano was bought at the market.

Accusative – Marks the direct object: Comerasun raqelo os nayomae/Raqelo comerasu os nayomae/Os nayomae raqelo comerasu: I buy the piano at the market.

Genitive – Shows possession: Tir raqelas mu/Raqelas mu tir/Tir mu raqelas: That is my piano.

Dative – Marks indirect object: Musel raqelo k nayomiva/K nayomiva raqelo musel/Raqelo musel k nayomiva: I give the piano to the market.

Temporal – Specifies a time: Laharim, musel raqelo k nayomiva/Musel raqelo, laharim, k nayomiva/K nayomiva musel raqelo, laharim: At eight, I give the piano to the market.

Ablative – Designates movement from something: Nayom musid raqelo humev: The market takes the piano from the man.

Instrumental – Designates the object used to accomplish an action: Comerasu raqel finanar/Finanar comerasu raqel/Raqel comerasu finanar

Prepositional – Designates location of something: Raqelo am nayomeja/Am nayomeja raqelo


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And that is it so far. There is so much more I could add but all of this ergative, liquids and plosives I don't understand. So I attempted a minor conlang, and I want to see what you guys think!

[KathTheDragon]

A comment on the phonetics - it would be a good idea to look at IPA. Then you can say exactly how to pronounce the letters, without having to resort to giving English examples. For example, I pronounce the vowels in 'aunt' and 'yah' the same. Also, you avoid doubling up letters like what you've done with <C> and <S> - based on what you've written, they're both pronounced the same. Similarly, <Q> and <K> are both the same - even when <Q> is before <U>, since that's just a convention we inherited from French. The last doublet I can see is <J> and <Ž>, assuming I understand what you mean by 'zh'. At the same time, I'd recommend trying to be consistent about diacritics - if a set of diacritics are doing the same thing to a similar set of sounds, they should all be the same diacritic. At the same time, I'd suggest learning about how slashes (//) and brackets ([] and <>) are used.

I'll let other people comment on the other stuff.

[HaloGeek]

Alright, thanks for your feedback!

[Thomas Winwood]

I'm a little curious to know what your language background is - you're clearly an English L1, but what other languages are you familiar with/are you learning? When I got into conlanging I was familiar with Latin, Ancient Greek and Russian - all big elaborate Indo-European ones with sprawling verb tables, the kind of thing Zomp called "baroque" in the first LCK - so the first conlangs I made were mostly big sprawling verb tables where I copied out all of Latin's verb conjugations and then invented affixes (in a somewhat agglutinative fashion, because I'd noticed patterns in the endings on my own).

I'd advise having another bash at the whole nasal and fricative thing - try and think about it in terms of what you're doing with your mouth and what groups of sounds (/apa ata aka/, /apa aba ama afa ava/) have in common. (This may well involve making lots of weird noises - it's okay, we've all done it.)

[HaloGeek]

My Dad is Russian and my Mom has Ph.D in Vulgar Latin, as well as studying Latin for over a decade.

So I speak Russian and know somewhat about Latin.

[Haplogy]

I'm sure it's been said before, but the main thing that you might have to work on first is the orthography. As far as I know, unless you've got some very, very good historical reasons for it, orthographical irregularities are generally frowned upon in the conlang community. That being, say, you using both <c> and <s> for /s/. Problem is that you've never specified what the rule is for which one is used when, or indeed, whether there even is any such rule.

As has been said before, using consistent diacritics would also be a good thing. You use ç for /t͡ʃ/ (the ch sound), ś for /ʃ/ (the sh sound), and ž for /ʒ/ (the pleasure sound). Wouldn't it look much nicer to use, say, <ć ś ź> for the lot of them? Or <č š ž>, that'd work just as well. Maybe <ç ş z̧> could even work, though that'd require some fiddling with combining diacritics. I'm sure you've got no trouble with typing all of these, apart from maybe the latter of the three.

Similarly, I'd suggest being consistent in your usage of diacritics on the vowels. However, I wouldn't suggest using the tilde (˜) at all for what you're using it. Something like <é á> would look much more solid. Of course, there's other possibilities, but this is the only way I've seen this actually handled in natlangs using the Roman alphabet, that being trying to convey 'pre-palatalisation' (is that that the right term?) using a single letter. As I've said before, I wouldn't recommend using a tilde at all. Nasalisation, or tone, or unrounding or maybe centralisation? Sure, have at it, it's been used like that before, but I simply wouldn't recommend using it like this.

[HaloGeek]

Alright, thanks for your feedback!

As I said before, the whole chart thing confused me a lot, so I figured I might have problems with the orthography and phonetics.

But what I really want to know, is if I did the rest right(exclusively the Nouns and the Verbs). As a Russian speaker, I and many others will tell you our language is highly inflected in all parts of the sentence. In Russian, pretty much everything changes.

[KathTheDragon]

There is no 'right' way. Really, only what looks plausible and what doesn't. Alternatively, what's naturalistic (what you might expect from a natural language with millennia of history) or not.

[احمکي ارش-ھجن]

As I said before, the whole chart thing confused me a lot, so I figured I might have problems with the orthography and phonetics.

What about the chart confuses you?

These may be useful:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 882C5EF41A
These videos introduce you to phonetics and the IPA and how it works as well as what is meant by "Point of Articulation" and "Manner of Articulation".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA
This site will list all the sounds attested in all the languages in the world, along with recordings of each.
IPA may be confusing at first, but the more you use it, the more easier it gets.

[HaloGeek]

I don't really know. I could never figure it out, how there are stops in multiple categories of letters and stuff like that.

I tried it, but it just didn't make any sense to me. I had to use English examples because I had never heard of the IPA.

Maybe I'm just a poor amateur who didn't do his research.

You guys have given me feedback for the stuff I hate the most, but none of the other stuff.

[KathTheDragon]

2nd Person Subjective Endings
You go – Sartam (SINGULAR & PLURAL)

This is a sure sign of someone who's not done a lot of looking around. Afaik, English is possibly the only language to do this.

Present(Happening at the time of speaking): Sartun k nayom – I go to market/I am going to the market

Past(Happening during the past): Sartama k nayoma – You went to market

Pluperfect(Occurred in the past): Sartoro k nayomo – We had gone to market

Future(Will occur in the future): Sartele k nayome – He will go to market

Future Perfect(Will eventually occur in the future): Sartilos k nayomos – It will have gone to the market

Don't give your tense examples in multiple persons. It complicates things and makes it harder to see what's going on.

Note: The vowel match at the end of the object shows that the Object will be affected in that certain time period, and no other time.

That's pretty cool.

Moods
Imperative(Used for commands): “Sartamt k nayom!” – “You will go to the market!”

A quick look through other languages (even European ones) will reveal a few other moods you could consider, like subjunctive or conditional.

Nouns

Case Usage and Declension
Proto-Nevoran is an inflected language, making use of eight cases. Because of this, there is a very free sentence structure.

There'll probably still be a preferred order, considered 'normal' in the language. Other word orders would be used to express particular things (such as fronting to indicate priority).

Nominative – Marks subject of the sentence. All nouns begin in this form. Raqel – Piano. Raqel comerasa os nayomae/Os nayomae comerasa raqel/Comerasa os nayomae raqel: The piano was bought at the market.

Accusative – Marks the direct object: Comerasun raqelo os nayomae/Raqelo comerasu os nayomae/Os nayomae raqelo comerasu: I buy the piano at the market.

Genitive – Shows possession: Tir raqelas mu/Raqelas mu tir/Tir mu raqelas: That is my piano.

Dative – Marks indirect object: Musel raqelo k nayomiva/K nayomiva raqelo musel/Raqelo musel k nayomiva: I give the piano to the market.

Temporal – Specifies a time: Laharim, musel raqelo k nayomiva/Musel raqelo, laharim, k nayomiva/K nayomiva musel raqelo, laharim: At eight, I give the piano to the market.

Ablative – Designates movement from something: Nayom musid raqelo humev: The market takes the piano from the man.

Instrumental – Designates the object used to accomplish an action: Comerasu raqel finanar/Finanar comerasu raqel/Raqel comerasu finanar

Prepositional – Designates location of something: Raqelo am nayomeja/Am nayomeja raqelo

Like verbs, you need to give only one sentence order (even if it's free - then it doesn't matter), and giving the base form of the word alongside the inflected form is better than a sentence, as then we can see exactly which word is in the case, and exactly what the ending is.

[HaloGeek]

Alright, thank you.


I will work on all of this.

[احمکي ارش-ھجن]

I don't really know. I could never figure it out, how there are stops in multiple categories of letters and stuff like that.

I tried it, but it just didn't make any sense to me. I had to use English examples because I had never heard of the IPA.

Maybe I'm just a poor amateur who didn't do his research.

You guys have given me feedback for the stuff I hate the most, but none of the other stuff.

What about the links I gave you...

[CaesarVincens]

I don't really know. I could never figure it out, how there are stops in multiple categories of letters and stuff like that.

I tried it, but it just didn't make any sense to me. I had to use English examples because I had never heard of the IPA.

Maybe I'm just a poor amateur who didn't do his research.

You guys have given me feedback for the stuff I hate the most, but none of the other stuff.

Welcome, HaloGeek.
Don't worry about being wrong or making mistakes. That is part of learning. You are still rather young and so there is a lot to learn. I didn't start getting into language studying until I was 15, and it took me another few years to really understand even the basics of it all.

As KathAveara said, there isn't a "right" way to make a language. There are some standards (like IPA or X-SAMPA) that we try to use so that it is easier to share our creations and provide helpful feedback. But, if the language is for your own enjoyment, that is what should be your guide.

If you are interested in Linguistics (or just languages), I'd recommend finding some introductory works on subjects like phonology and syntax to get started. If you haven't taken a look at what Zompist (AKA Mark Rosenfelder) has written, I'd recommend that as a starting point. The online Language Construction Kit is a good start, and the print (or e-book) version is even better.

Also, here's a nice clickable IPA chart. It plays most consonants as /Ca/ and /aCa/ as well as vowels.

[HaloGeek]

I'll check out the links.

And I used the online version of the Language Construction Kit as my guide.

[HaloGeek]

I'm currently editing the nouns, and have a question on one of the cases

The Sentence: The piano was bought in the market

Would market be in the Dative or Prepositional?

I'm pretty sure it would be in the Dative but I just wanted to check.


And another note:

I want to do SOV as my normal word order, but if the subject is implanted in the verb ([I bought] would be one word) how can I pull that off?

[KathTheDragon]

Prepositional, though going by your description, it should be called a locative.

[احمکي ارش-ھجن]

I'm currently editing the nouns, and have a question on one of the cases

The Sentence: The piano was bought in the market

Would market be in the Dative or Prepositional?

I'm pretty sure it would be in the Dative but I just wanted to check.

the Dative is used for when the actor (Agent) of the verb gives something to the receiver (Patient) of the verb...
"George gave Jamie a drink", where "Jamie" would be marked in dative case, it's the indirect object.
"She loves the boy" where "boy" would be marked in dative case also.

The market in your sentence doesn't give the piano to anything. so it's not Dative.
Also, your sentence is in passive voice, so there isn't even an Agent/Actor to speak of.

[CaesarVincens]

Case names are just labels for functions. So based on the functions you've outlined for your cases, I'd say prepositional (I'd call it locative unless it is used for prepositions covering functions not covered by cases such as accompaniment [with] or lack [without]).

I'd like to see a declension table for a noun or two (also do adjectives decline in full or in part in agreement with nouns?)

For example:

Nom. - raqel
Acc. - raqelo
Gen. - etc.
Dat.
Temp.
Abl.
Inst.
Prep.

Also, in your example for the genitive case, did you mark the piano in genitive? Genitive is usually given for the possessor word, not the possessed word (which may or may not have its own special marking for possession). I would expect nominative marking for the piano in that sentence as a predicate noun.

[HaloGeek]

Oh about the Genitive, it wasn't supposed to be for pronouns. It was for things that are maybe part of the object(bad description, but I can show you)

'Strings of the piano' would be what I would use for the Genitive Case, not for the pronouns

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Nom. - Raqel
Acc. - Raqelo
Gen. - Raqelas

(8 = Lahar in the Nominative) Temp. - Laharim

(Humon = Man in the Nominative) Abl. - Humev
(Finanon = Money in the Nominative) Inst. - Finanar
(Nayom = Market in the Nominative) Loc. - Nayomeja (EZHA)

Note: I haven't worked out the genders yet, but that entire table was for first declension(Masculine nouns) because in the nominative they always end in a consonant. Feminine(Second Declension) will be ending in 'A'. Neutral(Third Declension) will be ending in 'O' and 'E'.

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I planned to have adjectives decline in full agreement, but then I thought about it and had no idea what that actually meant....

I clearly didn't do enough research :/ sorry

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But again, how would I do SOV if subject pronouns are embedded in the verb?

[CaesarVincens]

Oh about the Genitive, it wasn't supposed to be for pronouns. It was for things that are maybe part of the object(bad description, but I can show you)

'Strings of the piano' would be what I would use for the Genitive Case, not for the pronouns

Sure, pronominal possession can occur in a variety of ways, a case marked pronoun is just one option, others include a clitic (word attached to another), and a possessive adjective (as in Latin).

Nom. - Raqel
Acc. - Raqelo
Gen. - Raqelas

(8 = Lahar in the Nominative) Temp. - Laharim

(Humon = Man in the Nominative) Abl. - Humev
(Finanon = Money in the Nominative) Inst. - Finanar
(Nayom = Market in the Nominative) Loc. - Nayomeja (EZHA)

Note: I haven't worked out the genders yet, but that entire table was for first declension(Masculine nouns) because in the nominative they always end in a consonant. Feminine(Second Declension) will be ending in 'A'. Neutral(Third Declension) will be ending in 'O' and 'E'.

Neat, I'm interested to know whether all ablatives and instrumentals drop the last stem syllable (that is, is it "raqev" and "raqar"?) As a side note, what case would you use to translate "he played the song on the piano." I could see either locative (as the place he played) or more likely instrumental (as the thing used for the playing).

I planned to have adjectives decline in full agreement, but then I thought about it and had no idea what that actually meant....

I clearly didn't do enough research :/ sorry

Agreement just means that the adjective shares some set of characteristics with the noun, often number and case, gender as well. Other characteristics like definiteness can be shared too. Full agreement would just mean having all the same marking as a noun (so in Latin, that's case, gender, and number). Partial agreement is possible as well, although, I'm not sure of languages with this.

But again, how would I do SOV if subject pronouns are embedded in the verb?

Simple, [Subject if not a pronoun][object][verb+subject if pronoun]. Other things (locatives, instrumentals) go in-between somewhere (before the verb or before the object most likely).
So for example:
Dog cat chased
Cat caught-he(or it)

[HaloGeek]

Alright, thank you!

[Mike Yams]

What are the subjective verbs? Did you perhaps mean subjunctive or do they have to do with marking dropped subjects or something like that?