zompist bboard

Original content kept here, but read after this paragraph for edited question:
I am writing stories for a conworld with absolutely no magic, but rather legends (in an attempt to parallel those that actually happen here on Earth). However, it looks like most (if not all) are designing conworlds full of fantasy, so this post would serve more as a call to those who are designing conworlds without magic or fantasy. Anyone who doesn't add magic to their conworld?

Foolster41 wrote: It seems the question about whether there is magic or not would be mostly based on if the world is a fantasy or science fiction world (being very common in the former, and rare in the later), and it'd be helpful to specify which type of worlds are being written.

Right now I am asking for more of the latter one, which is science fiction. Actually I want neither in my conworld, so I am asking whether there are those conworlds which simply look like the Earth. Yeah you find it more boring, but I guess that's what we call personal preference. :p

Or maybe I am confused on meaning of science-fiction conworld and fantasy conworld. Right now I find Wikipedia's definition of high fantasy and low fantasy confusing since neither can seem to describe my conworld.

Akana is a pretty massive collaborative conlanging/conworlding project that's been around for years now. The focus is primarily on languages, but the world (at least the part that's been developed so far) has a fair amount of lore to it at this point, and it's got basically no fantasy elements.

My Tekuo conworld is magic free. There's little evidence of that on my site, but as it says there, it's a parallel Earth that has been diverging since the late Jurassic. This gives more creative scope than the average parallel Earth and provides an explanation for tales of the supernatural. Claimed sightings of supernatural beings (on Earth and Tekuo) are said to be due to trace effects of parallelism - glimpses of other worlds. It's also possible to travel between parallel worlds ... somehow. So no magic, but plenty of bogus science.

My conworld has no magic. It doesn't have a great deal of appeal to me, to be honest. I do have myths and legends and things which have supernatural/magical elements, but even they are only one small part of the whole.

CatDoom wrote:Akana is a pretty massive collaborative conlanging/conworlding project that's been around for years now. The focus is primarily on languages, but the world (at least the part that's been developed so far) has a fair amount of lore to it at this point, and it's got basically no fantasy elements.

Hmm thanks for the link, it does look like more focused on languages. Looks well-done though

Ketumak wrote:My Tekuo conworld is magic free. There's little evidence of that on my site, but as it says there, it's a parallel Earth that has been diverging since the late Jurassic. This gives more creative scope than the average parallel Earth and provides an explanation for tales of the supernatural. Claimed sightings of supernatural beings (on Earth and Tekuo) are said to be due to trace effects of parallelism - glimpses of other worlds. It's also possible to travel between parallel worlds ... somehow. So no magic, but plenty of bogus science.

That's interesting, didn't thought of "parallelism". Is travel between parallel worlds due to advanced technology?

Seven Fifty wrote:My conworld has no magic. It doesn't have a great deal of appeal to me, to be honest. I do have myths and legends and things which have supernatural/magical elements, but even they are only one small part of the whole.

What is the technological level of your conworld?

I actually find massive to be a MASSIVE turn off for me when reading about someone else's conworld. I just don't find the world interesting anymore. I don't mind if the inhabitants believe in magic, voodoo etc, but for it to actually be the objective truth within a conworld just makes me stop reading.

Imralu wrote:I actually find massive magic to be a MASSIVE turn off for me when reading about someone else's conworld. I just don't find the world interesting anymore.

+1

Imralu wrote:I actually find massive to be a MASSIVE turn off for me when reading about someone else's conworld. I just don't find the world interesting anymore. I don't mind if the inhabitants believe in magic, voodoo etc, but for it to actually be the objective truth within a conworld just makes me stop reading.

Is that because magic is generally poorly handled? What if magic were integrated into a conworld in the same way that physics is (don't ask me how, I'm just supposing)?

gaiusmarchaave wrote:I am writing stories for a conworld with absolutely no magic, but rather legends (in an attempt to parallel those that actually happen here on Earth). However, it looks like most (if not all) are designing conworlds full of fantasy, so this post would serve more as a call to those who are designing conworlds without magic or fantasy. Anyone who doesn't add magic to their conworld?

That's odd: if anything, the perception I have is that most conworlds from ZBBers are generally magic-free. Often pre-modern, sure, but generally without "real" magic.

That's my impression too.

I quite like magic in fantasy stories and games, and I've tried designing a fantasy conworld for game purposes, but mostly my conworld ideas tend to be alt-history. No magic, maybe a few unlikely anachronisms.

@gaiusmarchaave:

Yes, I usually think in terms of advanced technology. Something like laptop. I posit that the science of parallel worlds is better understood on Tekuo than in our world. The idea was first raised in Western Europe by Leibnitz, so maybe if we'd followed his lead instead of Newton's, we'd now have that tech ourselves (maybe - this is fiction, NB)

At other times I think the device was left behind by visitors from a third parallel world (neither Earth nor Tekuo). The device then needs less explaining and is unique, so people will kill to get it.

At other times, I just think in terms of a hole in reality.

마사고 wrote:

Imralu wrote:massive magic

Haha. Maybe I meant "massive". You don't know!

KathAveara wrote:Is that because magic is generally poorly handled? What if magic were integrated into a conworld in the same way that physics is (don't ask me how, I'm just supposing)?

Well, if the universe has a different set of laws of physics, in what sense is that magic? I think this is my objection to it. If magic is just different physics, it's just different physics and not magic and I may like it. If it's just handwavium and "OMFG how cool are orcs and characters named Merlin!???" then I don't care for it. The only thing I really dig from the typical fantasy genre (quite funny how similar most stuff is in a genre called "fantasy"!) is dragons. Those are cool ... but if they can breath fire with no proposed way in which they could have evolve fire breathing, again, I don't like it! Centaurs are cool too actually.

I do like putting magic into conworlds, but I strongly disapprove of 'handwavium', as you put it (nice word, that!). I always get solid rules for what can or cannot be done long before I actually make species, so I can adapt the species to the magic, rather than the other way round.

KathAveara wrote:I do like putting magic into conworlds, but I strongly disapprove of 'handwavium', as you put it (nice word, that!). I always get solid rules for what can or cannot be done long before I actually make species, so I can adapt the species to the magic, rather than the other way round.

Same here. I currently have two projects involving magic. One is sci-fantasy in which one world has magic; the human colonizers don't understand how it works but they assert there is a scientific explanation for it, while the natives believe it is the gift of their god(s) or spirits. As narrator, I decline to take a side. Either way, magic never becomes a convenient plot device like the Force; though still a work in progress, there are very specific things magic can and can't do. The other project is a fantasy world in a Ptolemaic universe in which magic is extremely integral--yet at the same time rare. That is to say, rare for humans who inhabit the Hitherland (the top portion of the disk-shaped world); it's commonplace for the Fae (the inhabitants of the Netherworld or the bottom of the disk-shaped world). But even here magic is very carefully defined and restricted (and follows a Hermetic model). I would like to create a non-magical conworld at some point, though.

Rahturi is a separate universe with different laws of physics than in our universe, but there is no magic. The craziest it gets is there being a "God" that is actually just a being made of pure energy who inserted itself into all molecules in the universe while creating it in order to preserve itself. From there, it can control all matter, which can theoretically create "magical" phenomena, but the being is also very ambivalent (so it doesn't do all that much) and most of the universe's inhabitants are unaware of its existence.

I once planned to have one culture use some sort of "chemistry manipulation" implants that basically could perform magic, but decided it had no place in the conworld.

My conworlds don't have any magic either.

For the record, my conworld Calara has no magic.

Nae's conworld, described here https://sites.google.com/site/naeddyr/, has a different set of laws of physics than ours and is incredibly well done. One of my faves.

Nae, if you're still around – how is the Steamopera going? Any progress?

nobody, not even me, knows if my conworld has magic or not

the important thing is that the inhabitants believe there is magic and I tell things from their perspective as much as possible

~whoa~

I agree on desiring to avoid magic.

With my own conworld, I've allowed myself a few conceits regarding flora, fauna, and technological development because of its origin story. While the present core cultures have a technological level equivalent to Tang Dynasty China, the planet was originally a terraformed colony of Future Earth whose civilization collapsed due to an extensive glacial period.

I get the charm of magic and fantastic creatures, but I try my best not to create a plant or an animal that is beyond the means of evolution or very straight-forward genetic modification: no dragons or other flying mounts (though there are some big birds), varieties of animal that have adapted to different climates over the millennia (woolly rhinos), medicinal plants that produce chemicals already created by biology and thus easy to splice in (akin to aspirin), etc.

I feel like I'd drive myself crazy if I attempted to come up with a fully-structured, self-consistent magical system that fit with the kind of world I'd want to create.

I enjoy science fiction and fantasy about equally.

My universe does have magic, but I'm trying to have it:

• clearly defined
• not necessarily the focus of the story
• available to everyone in that world, not just a mage class.

Is telepathy magic? If Andalites and centaurs both use it?

Jennifer Fallon's Second Sons Trilogy has no magic, and I love that series.

The only thing that could be considered magic in my conworld is that some/many humans can travel to other dimensions, and a race of god-like creatures, that the humans fear. Other than that...

Any sufficently advanced technology, etc.

gaiusmarchaave wrote:

Seven Fifty wrote:My conworld has no magic. It doesn't have a great deal of appeal to me, to be honest. I do have myths and legends and things which have supernatural/magical elements, but even they are only one small part of the whole.

What is the technological level of your conworld?

It goes up to a "modern" sort of period, although this of course means I have a whole history going through various different levels of advancement, and I do a lot of work on various different periods.

Saltha is a "fantasy" world with non-human races (Lizardfolk and jungle-cat-people), but no magic. Of course they have religions and stuff. Though, none of it is real "in world".

It seems the question about whether there is magic or not would be mostly based on if the world is a fantasy or science fiction world (being very common in the former, and rare in the later), and it'd be helpful to specify which type of worlds are being written.

Of course there are exceptions, like star wars's "the force" which is basicly magic (because they never give a scientific explication for the force. Nope), and I think Game of Thrones doesn't have magic and seems to fit in the fantasy genre (though I havn't read any of the books, nor seen any of the show)

Game of Thrones has very little magic, but it's getting stronger with events in the story. I love fantasy, but GoT has so little magic, I find it jarring when it does appear. I think it could do just fine without it.