Non English Orthography Reform

[communistplot]

What about Georgian and Armenian. I like how you use Wynn for the voiced velar fricative.

Mostly I was focused on creating a unified orthography for any romance language but I can see what I can do for Georgian and Armenian, nice to know I have fans. :p

______________________________________________________________________________________

Georgian

/m n/ <m n>
/pʰ tʰ kʰ/ <ṗ ṭ c̣>
/b d ɡ/ <b d g>
/pʼ tʼ kʼ qʼ/ <p t c q>
/tsʰ tʃʰ/ <ţ̇ č̣>
/dz dʒ/ <ḑ ǧ>
/tsʼ tʃʼ/ <ţ č>
/s ʃ x h/ <s š ç h>
/v z ʒ ɣ/ <v z ž ƿ>
/r l/ <r l>

/i u/ <i u>
/ɛ ɔ/ <e o>
/a~ɑ/ <a>

Qvela adamiani ibadeba ṭavisuṗali da ṭanasţori ṭavisi ƿirsebiṭa da uṗlebebiṭ. Maṭ miničebuli ac̣vṭ goneba da sindisi da erṭmaneṭis mimarṭ unda ic̣ţ̇eodnen ḑmobis suliscveṭebit.


________________________________________________________________________________________________

Armenian

/m n/ <m n>
/p t k/ <p t c>
/b d ɡ/ <b d g>
/pʰ tʰ kʰ/ <ṗ ṭ c̣>
/ts tʃ/ <ţ č>
/dz dʒ/ <ď ǧ>
/tsʰ tʃʰ/ <ţ̇ č̣>
/f s ʃ x~χ h/ <f s š ç h>
/v z ʒ ɣ~ʁ/ <v z ž ƿ>
/ʋ j/ <w j>
/l r/ <l r>

/i u/ <i u>
/ɛ ə ɔ/ <e ȃ o>
/ɑ/ <a>

Bolor mardic ďnowm azat ow havasar irenţ arǧhanapatvowṭjamb ew iravowncnerov. Nranc oǧhtvaţ̇ en banacanowṭjamb ow çƿtwov, ew partavor en mimjanţ ncatmamb varvel eƿbajrowṭjan ogov.

[Birdlang]

Yi.
Plosives are same, but doubled letters get a dot above and regular j is dotless. Same with affricates.
Nasals are written as in IPA. But voiceless ones get an underline.
Prenasalized plosives get eng before them.
Fricatives are same
But doubled ones get a cedilla.
Sh is š, ch is č, zh is ž.
Rr is ž with dot under.
All laterals are as in IPA. Y and w are now X-cedilla and g-stroke
Vowels are
a, ė for e, ie is e, i is i, uo is ō, o, u, ur is ü, y is ï, yr is ÿ. Tones are with Zhuang Tone letters two five and six. And mid is unmarked.

[Torco]

Spanish

/m n ɲ/ <m n ñ>
/p b t tʃ k/ <p b t č c>
/β f θ ð s x ɣ/ <v f ŝ z s ç g>
/l ʎ/ <l lj>
/ɾ r/ <r rh>
/j w/ <j w>

/a e i o u/ <a e i o u>

Tozos los seres umanos naŝen libres e igwales en dignizad i derečos i, dotazos como estan de rhason i consjensja, deven comportarse fraternalmente los unos con los otros.

I propose we democratize this so that the θ s thing collapses along with the l ʎ, so it represents standard latin american dialect <the overwhelmingly more used>. Also, no need to represent ð, which isn't a contrastive phoneme but rather the realization of /d/ when between like two vowels or stuff.

/m n ɲ/ <m n ñ>
/p b t tʃ k/ <p b t č c>
/β f s x ɣ/ <v s x g>
/l / <l>
/ɾ r/ <r rh>
/j w/ <j w>

Todos los seres umanos nasen livres e igwales en dignidad i derečos i, dotados como estan de rhason i consjensja, deven comportarse fraternalmente los unos con los otros.

with elided ð, a common feature, it becomes

toos los seres umanos nasen livres e igwales en dinnia i derečos i, dotaos como estan de rhason i consjensja, deen comportarse fraternalmente los unos con los otros.



abaxo el imperjo

[Thry]

abaho or rxason, you inefficient nightmare

[jal]

I'm not a fan of the č, it looks to Slavic. Also random use of ç for /x/ is dead ugly (not to mention ŝ). I like Torco's much better, but the č needs to go! We could of course employ "ch", and make "rh" into "rr". Or have "tj", and make "ñ" into "nj". Btw, why are yall forgetting /d/ in the list?

/m n ɲ/ <m n nj>
/p b t d tʃ k/ <p b t d tj c>
/β f s x ɣ/ <v f s x g>
/l / <l>
/ɾ r/ <r rr>
/j w/ <j w>


JAL

[Nannalu]

/m n ɲ/ <m n gn>
/p b t d tʃ k g/ <p b t d ci/ce c/ch g/gh>
/β f θ ð s x ɣ/ <v f z d s h gi/ge>
/l ʎ/ <l gl>
/ɾ r/ <r (e)rr>
/j w/ <i u>

Todos los seres humanos nazen libres e iguales en dig-nizad i derecios i, dotazos como estàn de errasòn i consiensia, deven comportarse fraternalmente los unos con los otros.

[Torco]

rxason? idgi

Spanish without eñe? unthinkable!
Otherwise yeah, i agree, the slavic c is bad for spanish... Oooh, i get it now, he didn't list d and D, he just listed d *as* D... okay, then... some people render ch as x, x can be h and you end up with. Finally, b and B are not distinct phonemes, I think, they don't contrast for any dialect i know of. soo

/m n ɲ/ <m n ñ>
/p t d tʃ k/ <p t d x c>
/β f s x ɣ/ <v f s h g>
/l / <l>
/ɾ r/ <r rr>
/j w/ <j w>

Avaho el imperjo, los madrileños sesarán de mandar en la lengwa. A levantar los estandartes, compañeros. sin vasilar marxar para concistar la livertad. Todos los seres umanos nasen livres e igwales en dignidad i derexos i, dotados como estan de rrason i consjensja, deven comportarse fraternalmente los unos con los otros.

[Torco]

As for nannalu's, while d and D, g and G are not like phonemic pairs, i like the solution of ci for tS.

[Trebor]

I'm surprised no one has even mentioned Vietnamese--its vowels are nuts. Any takers?

[Birdlang]

I have a ton of Vietnamese ASCII romanizations.
I cannot show them all.
And some with diacritics
Hanoi Vietnamese

Initials:
/p t̪ʰ t c k kʰ~x/ p tz t c k kz
/ɓ ɗ/ b d
/f v s z ɣ h/ f v s z x g h. When z is /j/ it is j.
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ń
/l r w/ l r w

Medials: (all but u and Vw series can take -w- between initial and medial)
/a aː ɛ ə ɔ e əː o i ɨ u/ a aa eh ue oh e ë o i ï u
/ie~iə ɨə uo~uə/ ie ïe uo
/aj aːj əj ɔj əːj oj ɨj uj ɨəj uəj/ Vj
/aw aːw ɛw əw ew əːw iw ɨw iəw ɨəw/ Vù

Finals:
/p t k m n ŋ/
[c ɲ] for /k ŋ/ after /i e/ and [a] which could be either /ai/ or /ɛ/

Tones:
˧ ˨˩ ˧˥ ˧ˀ˨ʔ ˧˩˧ ˧ˀ˥ Ø z v q h r
only the bolded tones can occur when there's a final

tʰoj˧ˌ cuŋ˧˥ ta˧ haj˧ˀ˥ʔ suəŋ˧˥ˌ lam˨˩ lon˧ˀ˨ʔ son˧ˀ˨ʔ tieŋ˧˥ nɔj˧˨ kuə˧˩˧ cuŋ˧˥ nɔ˧˥ cɔ˧ hɔ˧ˀ˨ʔ ŋɛ˧ kʰoŋ˧ dɯək˧ˀ˨ʔ tiəŋ˧˥ nɔi˧˥ kuə˧˩˧ ŋɯəj˨˩ naːj˨˩ vəːj˧˥ ŋɯəj˨˩ kiə˧ Tzoj cuńv ta hajq suońv lamz lonq sonq tieńv nohjz kuo'h cuńv nohv coh hohq ńeh. Kzoń dïekq tieńv nohjv kuo'h ńïejz naajz veeujv ńïejz kie.

[Buran]

The problem with romanising Vietnamese is that the pronunciation varies so much. I thought the orthography was crazy until I took a look at the dialectal variation; the current romanisation actually does a pretty good job of representing all dialects equally (in the same way that, while English orthography is rather poor at phonetically representing any single dialect, it does a fair job of representing them all). While we could just say "Screw a single literary standard!" the government of Vietnam probably wouldn't be too happy.

[Nannalu]

I love the look of Vietnamese.

[salem]

Vietnamese:

/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n gn g
/p t ʈ~tʂ c~tɕ k/ p t tz cy c
/ɓ ɗ/ b d
/tʰ kʰ~x/ th ch
/f s ʂ h/ f s sz h
/v z~j ʐ~ɹ ɣ/ v ʒ z gh
/w l j/ w l y

/i ɨ u e ə ɤː o ɛ a aː ɔ/ i ũ u é õ õõ ó e a aa o

/iə̯ ɨə̯ uə̯/ ie ũõ uo
/ɨɪ̯ ɨə̯ɪ̯ uɪ̯ uə̯ɪ̯ əɪ̯ ɤːɪ̯ oɪ̯ aɪ̯ aːɪ̯ ɔɪ̯/ ũi ũõi ui uoi õi õõi ói ai aai oi
/iʊ̯ iə̯ʊ̯ ɨʊ̯ ɨə̯ʊ̯ eʊ̯ əʊ̯ ɤːʊ̯ ɛʊ̯ aʊ̯ aːʊ̯/ iu ieu ũu ũõu éu õu õõu eu au aau

i ngang /i˧/
ir huyền /i̤˨˩/
iħ sắc /i˧˥/
iz hỏi /ḭ˧˩˧/
ih ngã /i˧ʔi˥/
ix nặng /ḭ˨˩/

Old:
Tất cả mọi người sinh ra đều được tự do và bình đẳng về nhân phẩm và quyền lợi. Mọi con người đều được tạo hóa ban cho lý trí và lương tâm và cần phải đối xử với nhau trong tình anh em.

New:
Tõtħ caz moix gũõir szign za déur dũõcx tũx ʒo vaar bignr dagz vér gnõn fõmz var cwienr lõõix. Moix con gũõir déur dũõcx taaux hwaar baan cyo liħ tziħ vaar lũõg tõm vaar cõnr faaix dóir gnaau tzog tignr aaign em.

Sorry, no IPA, but you get the point.

I also really like the current look of Vietnamese, and how it uses the Latin alphabet is fascinating, but it's so hard to type and display.

[Birdlang]

I like the current Vietnamese orthography better than my own, even though most of the characters are in Latin Extended Additional.

[Birdlang]

Are you saying that Georgian and Armenian have suddenly become Romance languages or something?

No. I just want to see Vidurnaktis' romanizations for those natlangs too.

[----]

Initials:
/p t̪ʰ t c k kʰ~x/ p tz t c k kz
/ɓ ɗ/ b d
/f v s z ɣ h/ f v s z x g h. When z is /j/ it is j.
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ń
/l r w/ l r w

/z/ is never [j] in Hanoi. That's a distinctly Southern pronunciation. Also Hanoi vietnamese doesn't have /r/.