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 Post subject: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:39 pm 
Osän
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Go. Include seeds -- they're at the bottom of the page.

----

Seed 1141204793:
* A "labiodental-velar lateral", /k͡x͡p͡fˡ/, with such allophones as [q͡χ͡p͡f], [g͡ɣ͡b͡vˡ], and [ʁ].
* Vowels and dorsal obstruents or nasals [k͡p g͡ɣ͡b͡vˡ ŋ͡m̩ ...] persistently assimilate in highness or uvularity to a following one of [k͡p g͡b k g k͡x͡p͡fˡ g͡ɣ͡b͡vˡ ɣ ɣˡ χ ʁ ʟ ŋ͡m̩ ŋ͡ɱ̩ ɲ̩ ŋ̩̟ ŋ̩]. Before an uvular fricative, vowels become ; back vowels become non-back; obstruent laterals become non-lateral; [g͡b ŋ͡m̩ ŋ͡ɱ̩] become [ʁ ɘ̃ ɘ̃]; [g] become [ʁ]; [g͡ɣ͡b͡vˡ] become [ʁ].
* Non-retroflex vowels and palatoalveolar stops or nasals [t͡ʃ d͡ʒ ṉ̩] become front [k̟ g̟ ɲ̩] before a front vowel. Affricates become velar.
* Vowels: /a ã i u ɲ̩ ŋ̩̟/, of which the last two are "Near-high" but placed above the high vowels

Seed 1141860069 gives labial-velar /ŋ͡m k͡p/, which contrast with labial-uvular /ɴ͡m q͡p/. There are also nasal approximants /β̞̃ ɰ̃/, but there's no /ɰ ŋ/. Also: "Non-pharyngeal uvular obstruents or nasals [ɴ͡m̥ ɴʷ̥ qʼ ...] become velar fronted [ŋ͡m̟̥ ŋʷ̟̥ kʼ̟ ...] after a front high vowel. Non-pharyngeal unrounded uvular obstruents or nasals [ɴ͡m̥ ɴ q ...] become velar fronted [ŋ͡m̟̥ ŋ̟ k̟ ...] after a front vowel." But there's no mention of pharyngeality anywhere else.

Seed 1141729651 gives this excellent rule:
Quote:
[m̥ m̥ m m n̻̥ n̻̥ n̻ n̻ nʷ̻̥ nʷ̻̥ nʷ̻ nʷ̻ ṉ̺̥ ṉ̺̥ ṉ̺ ṉ̺ ṉ̺ʷ̥ ṉ̺ʷ̥ ṉ̺ʷ ṉ̺ʷ pʰ pʰ p p b b ɓ ɓ ɓ̰ ɓ̰ ɗ̻ ɗ̻ ɗ̰̻ ɗ̰̻ ɗʷ̻ ɗʷ̻ ɗ̰ʷ̻ ɗ̰ʷ̻ ɗ̱̺ ɗ̱̺ ɗ̱̺̰ ɗ̱̺̰ ɗ̱̺ʷ ɗ̱̺ʷ ɗ̱̺̰ʷ ɗ̱̺̰ʷ t͡sʰ̻ t͡sʰ̻ t͡s̻ t͡s̻ t͡sʼ̻ t͡sʼ̻ d͡z̻ d͡z̻ t͡sʰʷ̻ t͡sʰʷ̻ t͡sʷ̻ t͡sʷ̻ t͡sʼʷ̻ t͡sʼʷ̻ d͡zʷ̻ d͡zʷ̻ t͡ʃ̺ʰ t͡ʃ̺ʰ t͡ʃ̺ t͡ʃ̺ t͡ʃ̺ʼ t͡ʃ̺ʼ d͡ʒ̺ d͡ʒ̺ t͡ʃ̺ʰʷ t͡ʃ̺ʰʷ t͡ʃ̺ʷ t͡ʃ̺ʷ t͡ʃ̺ʼʷ t͡ʃ̺ʼʷ d͡ʒ̺ʷ d͡ʒ̺ʷ s̻ s̻ z̻ z̻ sʷ̻ sʷ̻ zʷ̻ zʷ̻ ʃ̺ ʃ̺ ʒ̺ ʒ̺ ʃ̺ʷ ʃ̺ʷ ʒ̺ʷ ʒ̺ʷ] assimilate in dorsality and uvularity and palatalisation and whether palatal or palatalised velar to a following obstruent or nasal and become non-dorsal word-finally. Before a velar stop or nasal, non-bilabial obstruents or nasals become non-back non-dorsal. Before a back stop or nasal, laminal obstruents or nasals become apical and assimilate in uvularity; apical obstruents or nasals become laminal and assimilate in uvularity; [ɓ ɓ̰] become non-implosive and assimilate in uvularity; [ɓ̰] become non-glottalised and assimilate in uvularity. Before an uvular stop or nasal, non-bilabial obstruents or nasals become non-back non-dorsal.

Highlighting this almost crashed Chrome.
It also has allophonic labial-velars and labial-uvulars: /sipɴɑ/ [siɢ͡bɴɑ]

Seed 1148414208 has /ʀ̆ʷ/. And two long voiced plosives, which can appear word-finally, but no other gemination.

Seed 1148250458 has a series of pharyngealized velars /ŋˤ kˤ gˤ xˤ/... and then a pharyngealized palatal glide, /ɪ̯ˤ/, which contrasts with /j/. This is actually an interesting feature... but there are no other pharyngeals. Also the vowel system is /a i ɯ u/.

Seed 1149200548: a vowel system of /æ a i/. (Cev, this otherwise looks Siberian; go steal it. Also it has 11 consonants.)

Seed 1147332635: /ʟ̃ʷ/.

23:43 < Nortaneous> [mbaŋgŋgɳɖ̻ɔ]
23:43 < Nortaneous> [htʰihhɳ̻u]
23:43 < Nortaneous> [ndusaŋgŋg]
23:44 < Nortaneous> [tashŋkʰa]
23:44 < Nortaneous> 1147890636

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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:31 am 
Avisaru
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Posts: 457
Location: Virginia
I love gleb, and what were the 11 consonants?

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:46 am 
Osän
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I can't work out how to load a particular seed.


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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:21 am 
Avisaru
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There was a rather nice one on Reddit the other day. OP didn't give the seed, though.

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:03 pm 
Smeric
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(Bare in mind, I think this seed is actually quite nice and I might save it somewhere. Love its Afro-Indo feel).
Seed 1097804354:
Image

Seed 1095805038:
• After an obstruent or nasal, [mʲ pʰʲ pʲ] become [β̞̃ʲ β̞ʲ̥ β̞ʲ̥]; non-front bilabial stops or nasals become non-bilabial rounded back semivowels; [pʰ] become [w]; [p] become [w].

Seed 1094889083:
• [m ɱ n̻ ṉ ŋ ŋʷ mb ɱb nd̻ ŋg ŋgʷ pʰ p pʼ pʰ̪ p̪ p̪ʼ tʰ̻ t̻ tʼ̻ kʰ k kʼ kʰʷ kʷ kʼʷ ʔ nd͡z̻ nd͡ʒ t͡s̻ t͡sʼ̻ t͡ʃ t͡ʃʼ mβ ɱv nz̻ nʒ ɸ f s̻ ʃ ɾ̻ l̻] persistently become front before a front semivowel. Rounded stops or nasals become non-front.

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:55 am 
Avisaru
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Posts: 457
Location: Virginia
Nannalu wrote:
(Bare in mind, I think this seed is actually quite nice and I might save it somewhere. Love its Afro-Indo feel).
Seed 1097804354:
Image

Seed 1095805038:
• After an obstruent or nasal, [mʲ pʰʲ pʲ] become [β̞̃ʲ β̞ʲ̥ β̞ʲ̥]; non-front bilabial stops or nasals become non-bilabial rounded back semivowels; [pʰ] become [w]; [p] become [w].

Seed 1094889083:
• [m ɱ n̻ ṉ ŋ ŋʷ mb ɱb nd̻ ŋg ŋgʷ pʰ p pʼ pʰ̪ p̪ p̪ʼ tʰ̻ t̻ tʼ̻ kʰ k kʼ kʰʷ kʷ kʼʷ ʔ nd͡z̻ nd͡ʒ t͡s̻ t͡sʼ̻ t͡ʃ t͡ʃʼ mβ ɱv nz̻ nʒ ɸ f s̻ ʃ ɾ̻ l̻] persistently become front before a front semivowel. Rounded stops or nasals become non-front.

That is an interesting Afro Indic like gleb language. I wonder about the allophones.

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:57 am 
Avisaru
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alynnidalar wrote:
There was a rather nice one on Reddit the other day. OP didn't give the seed, though.

Now I want 71 consonants.

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:00 am 
Avisaru
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Nortaneous wrote:
Go. Include seeds -- they're at the bottom of the page.

----

Seed 1141204793:
* A "labiodental-velar lateral", /k͡x͡p͡fˡ/, with such allophones as [q͡χ͡p͡f], [g͡ɣ͡b͡vˡ], and [ʁ].
* Vowels and dorsal obstruents or nasals [k͡p g͡ɣ͡b͡vˡ ŋ͡m̩ ...] persistently assimilate in highness or uvularity to a following one of [k͡p g͡b k g k͡x͡p͡fˡ g͡ɣ͡b͡vˡ ɣ ɣˡ χ ʁ ʟ ŋ͡m̩ ŋ͡ɱ̩ ɲ̩ ŋ̩̟ ŋ̩]. Before an uvular fricative, vowels become ; back vowels become non-back; obstruent laterals become non-lateral; [g͡b ŋ͡m̩ ŋ͡ɱ̩] become [ʁ ɘ̃ ɘ̃]; [g] become [ʁ]; [g͡ɣ͡b͡vˡ] become [ʁ].
* Non-retroflex vowels and palatoalveolar stops or nasals [t͡ʃ d͡ʒ ṉ̩] become front [k̟ g̟ ɲ̩] before a front vowel. Affricates become velar.
* Vowels: /a ã i u ɲ̩ ŋ̩̟/, of which the last two are "Near-high" but placed above the high vowels

Seed 1141860069 gives labial-velar /ŋ͡m k͡p/, which contrast with labial-uvular /ɴ͡m q͡p/. There are also nasal approximants /β̞̃ ɰ̃/, but there's no /ɰ ŋ/. Also: "Non-pharyngeal uvular obstruents or nasals [ɴ͡m̥ ɴʷ̥ qʼ ...] become velar fronted [ŋ͡m̟̥ ŋʷ̟̥ kʼ̟ ...] after a front high vowel. Non-pharyngeal unrounded uvular obstruents or nasals [ɴ͡m̥ ɴ q ...] become velar fronted [ŋ͡m̟̥ ŋ̟ k̟ ...] after a front vowel." But there's no mention of pharyngeality anywhere else.

Seed 1141729651 gives this excellent rule:
Quote:
[m̥ m̥ m m n̻̥ n̻̥ n̻ n̻ nʷ̻̥ nʷ̻̥ nʷ̻ nʷ̻ ṉ̺̥ ṉ̺̥ ṉ̺ ṉ̺ ṉ̺ʷ̥ ṉ̺ʷ̥ ṉ̺ʷ ṉ̺ʷ pʰ pʰ p p b b ɓ ɓ ɓ̰ ɓ̰ ɗ̻ ɗ̻ ɗ̰̻ ɗ̰̻ ɗʷ̻ ɗʷ̻ ɗ̰ʷ̻ ɗ̰ʷ̻ ɗ̱̺ ɗ̱̺ ɗ̱̺̰ ɗ̱̺̰ ɗ̱̺ʷ ɗ̱̺ʷ ɗ̱̺̰ʷ ɗ̱̺̰ʷ t͡sʰ̻ t͡sʰ̻ t͡s̻ t͡s̻ t͡sʼ̻ t͡sʼ̻ d͡z̻ d͡z̻ t͡sʰʷ̻ t͡sʰʷ̻ t͡sʷ̻ t͡sʷ̻ t͡sʼʷ̻ t͡sʼʷ̻ d͡zʷ̻ d͡zʷ̻ t͡ʃ̺ʰ t͡ʃ̺ʰ t͡ʃ̺ t͡ʃ̺ t͡ʃ̺ʼ t͡ʃ̺ʼ d͡ʒ̺ d͡ʒ̺ t͡ʃ̺ʰʷ t͡ʃ̺ʰʷ t͡ʃ̺ʷ t͡ʃ̺ʷ t͡ʃ̺ʼʷ t͡ʃ̺ʼʷ d͡ʒ̺ʷ d͡ʒ̺ʷ s̻ s̻ z̻ z̻ sʷ̻ sʷ̻ zʷ̻ zʷ̻ ʃ̺ ʃ̺ ʒ̺ ʒ̺ ʃ̺ʷ ʃ̺ʷ ʒ̺ʷ ʒ̺ʷ] assimilate in dorsality and uvularity and palatalisation and whether palatal or palatalised velar to a following obstruent or nasal and become non-dorsal word-finally. Before a velar stop or nasal, non-bilabial obstruents or nasals become non-back non-dorsal. Before a back stop or nasal, laminal obstruents or nasals become apical and assimilate in uvularity; apical obstruents or nasals become laminal and assimilate in uvularity; [ɓ ɓ̰] become non-implosive and assimilate in uvularity; [ɓ̰] become non-glottalised and assimilate in uvularity. Before an uvular stop or nasal, non-bilabial obstruents or nasals become non-back non-dorsal.

Highlighting this almost crashed Chrome.
It also has allophonic labial-velars and labial-uvulars: /sipɴɑ/ [siɢ͡bɴɑ]

Seed 1148414208 has /ʀ̆ʷ/. And two long voiced plosives, which can appear word-finally, but no other gemination.

Seed 1148250458 has a series of pharyngealized velars /ŋˤ kˤ gˤ xˤ/... and then a pharyngealized palatal glide, /ɪ̯ˤ/, which contrasts with /j/. This is actually an interesting feature... but there are no other pharyngeals. Also the vowel system is /a i ɯ u/.

Seed 1149200548: a vowel system of /æ a i/. (Cev, this otherwise looks Siberian; go steal it. Also it has 11 consonants.)

Seed 1147332635: /ʟ̃ʷ/.

23:43 < Nortaneous> [mbaŋgŋgɳɖ̻ɔ]
23:43 < Nortaneous> [htʰihhɳ̻u]
23:43 < Nortaneous> [ndusaŋgŋg]
23:44 < Nortaneous> [tashŋkʰa]
23:44 < Nortaneous> 1147890636

Nort, why do all the others get better gleb than me?

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:02 am 
Avisaru
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Once, I got a bilabial flap and trill that contrasted. The flap was just a bilabial trill with a breve on it.

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:19 pm 
Avisaru
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QUADRA POST!

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Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:19 pm 
Sumerul
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What's this Gleb? (Besides an Old Russian personal name?)


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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:34 pm 
Smeric
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It's a perl script written by one Alex Finkmeier that generates Random Phonologies. You can get it here or try this version that runs on his site.

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:59 pm 
Osän
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finlay wrote:
I can't work out how to load a particular seed.

Run it from the command line with -r <seed>.

Birdlang wrote:
Nort, why do all the others get better gleb than me?

Reload more. One in every fifteen or twenty are interesting.

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R.Rusanov wrote:
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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
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Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:30 pm 
Avisaru
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Think I got the s/[+labial]/[+velar]/g version of Bloppabop (or whatever it’s called now... Poswa? Pabappa?)...
Gleb wrote:
/k’anaguk’u/
/zik‘uha/
/saka/
/gak’unu/
/kak’isu/
/nika/
/giginu/
/giʟi/
/gaik’ala/
/kahaka/
/k’aluga/
/hidu/
/k’ugigu/
/k’uk’uk’u/
/kukihu/
/guhai/
/gak’uga/
/t’inani/
/kunu/
/biʟadugu/
/kuinu/
/k’iuk’aha/
/hak’iga/
/tuaka/
/gakiʟu/
/kik’aʟi/
/guhizi/
/k‘itik‘i/
/hunaki/

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:59 pm 
Avisaru
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Question: What the fuck does gleb mean?

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Adúljôžal ônal kol ví éža únah kex yaxlr gmlĥ hôga jô ônal kru ansu frú.
Ansu frú ônal savel zaš gmlĥ a vek Adúljôžal vé jaga čaþ kex.
Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh.


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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:10 pm 
Smeric
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Why would it mean anything?

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陳第 wrote:
蓋時有古今,地有南北;字有更革,音有轉移,亦勢所必至。

R.Rusanov wrote:
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sex want-PRS-1sg

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:36 pm 
Avisaru
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Location: /ˈaɪ̯əwʌ/
gleb /ɡlɛb/ (past tense glob or glebbed) 1. vt to baptize a duck with, while wearing rubber-soled shoes 2. n any of a range of thiocyanates used for said baptism. (From Middle English gleben, loaned from Old Norse gleba, from Proto-Germanic *glebaną, from Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰlebʰ-, *ǵʰl̥bʰ. Cognate with Ancient Greek κλάφομαι ("I massage with a spatula"), Latin globeō ("I impale lengthwise with a tuning-fork"), and Old Armenian xkʿoy ("I am")).

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Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:13 pm 
Sumerul
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Syllable structure:

(C1)(C2)(C3)(C4)V

C1: one of /gʷ ʔ ɓ̰ ɠ̰ d͡ʑ f ʃ x ɾ/
C2: a consonant other than an affricate (/t͡sʰ t͡s t͡sʼ d͡z d͡ʑ/) or one of /b d g s/ (/b d g s/)
C3: a consonant other than /ʃ/
C4: one of /gʷ d͡ʑ ɾ/
V: a vowel

seed 1223950889

In seed 1096034691, it gives a phonology with 61 consonants. 38 of them are stops.

seed 1115923172 has a syllabic pharyngealized velar nasal with a length distinction.

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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:29 pm 
Osän
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20:24 < Nortaneous> 1222805010 is probably a real language somewhere in taiwan
20:27 < Nortaneous> 1223198692 is actually good
^ mostly putting these here in case anyone wants to use them

1223460443:
/mpʰ mp mpʼ mb mɓ̰ pʰ p pʼ ɓ̰/
/i ɯ u æ a ɒ/

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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:42 pm 
Avisaru
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1218022923 has creaky-voiced implosives and /hʷ/, and this:
[*]Voiceless glottal fricatives [h hʷ] persistently become non-fricative non-resonant glottal fricatives and assimilate in place of articulation to a following non-labial obstruent.

What on earth is a "non-resonant glottal fricative"?

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Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.


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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:38 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:50 am
Posts: 2551
What the heck is a "non-fricative glottal fricative", I'd rather ask.

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The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.


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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:24 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:43 pm
Posts: 465
Location: Iowa
My guess is the intention is to distinguish between genuine fricatives and the more common bare phonation represented by /h/.


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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:30 am 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Posts: 4798
Location: Bonn, Germany
Hallow XIII wrote:
It's a perl script written by one Alex Finkmeier that generates Random Phonologies. You can get it here or try this version that runs on his site.

Danke!


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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:02 am 
Osän
Osän
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:35 pm
Posts: 15785
Location: Tokyo
Nortaneous wrote:
finlay wrote:
I can't work out how to load a particular seed.

Run it from the command line with -r <seed>.

Tried downloading it and it wouldn't work from the command line. Do I have to download the whole folder or something?


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 Post subject: Re: The glebst of Gleb
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:12 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:34 am
Posts: 457
Location: Virginia
Consonants
Labial Laminal
alveolar Laminal
alveolar
sibilant Retroflex Retroflex
sibilant Palatoalv. Palatoalv.
sibilant /
palatal Velar Glottal
Nasal m n̻ ɳ ṉ ɲ
Stop pʰ p b ɓ̰ tʰ̻ t̻ d̻ ɗ̰̻ t͡s̻ ʈʰ ʈ ɖ ɗ̢̰ ʈ͡ʂ t͡ʃʰ t͡ʃ t͡ʃʼ d͡ʒ kʰ k g
Fricative f s̻ ʂ ʃ h
Resonant r̻ j̥ j

Vowels
Front Central Back
High i ĩ ɨ ɨ̃ u ũ
Mid-high e ẽ o õ
Low ɑ ɑ̃ ɒ ɒ̃
37 consonants, but 14 VOWELS! What???

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