The glebst of Gleb

[Birdlang]

1218022923 has creaky-voiced implosives and /hʷ/, and this:
[*]Voiceless glottal fricatives [h hʷ] persistently become non-fricative non-resonant glottal fricatives and assimilate in place of articulation to a following non-labial obstruent.

What on earth is a "non-resonant glottal fricative"?

Maybe a glottalized alveolar or laminar alveolar sibilant.

[Birdlang]

Consonants
Labial Alveolar Palatoalv.
sibilant /
palatal Velar Uvular Rounded
uvular Glottal
Nasal m̥ m n̥ n ɴ̥ ɴ
Prenasalised stop mpʰ mb ntʰ nd nt͡ʃʰ nd͡ʒ ŋkʰ ŋg ɴqʰ ɴɢ
Stop pʰ p b tʰ t d t͡ʃʰ t͡ʃ d͡ʒ kʰ k g qʰ q ɢ ʔ
Fricative f v s z ʃ ʒ x ɣ χ ʁ h
Resonant l j̥ j ʀ ʀʷ (wow, I got a rounded uvular trill, might romanize as w, and uvular trill, which I might romanize as r, for the first time not as a g-like letter)
Will be set on an alien homeworld by a native marsupial tribe as the protolang.
Vowels
Front Central Back
High i u
Near-high ɪ ʊ
Mid-high e ẽ o õ
Mid-low ɛ ɛ̃ ɔ ɔ̃
Low a ã
Wow. That is 48 consonants and 14 vowels. But it only nasalized five vowels. Why Gleb why?

[Birdlang]

Consonants
Labial Laminal
alveolar Apical
palatoalv.
sibilant /
palatal Palatalised
velar Velar Glottal
Nasal m n̻ ɲ ŋʲ ŋ
Stop pʰ p tʰ̻ t̻ t͡ʃ̺ʰ t͡ʃ̺ kʲʰ kʲ kʰ k ʔ
Fricative f s̻ ʃ̺
Approximant l̻ j w

Vowels
Front Central Back
High i iː ɨ ɨː u uː
Mid-high e eː ẽ ẽː o oː õ õː
Low a aː ã ãː
A little above minimalist with twenty two consonants, but with 18 vowels, all with length contrast and three with nasalization contrast. What the heck are "apical postalveolar sibilants"?
Weird allophony
Velar stops or nasals [ŋ kʰ k kʼ] become uvular [ɴ qʰ q qʼ] before a central low vowel.
A word
/fiːaːt̻/ [fiːaːt̻]
What? Is this a weird language with a latin loanword?

[Hallow XIII]

I can't work out how to load a particular seed.

Run it from the command line with -r <seed>.

Tried downloading it and it wouldn't work from the command line. Do I have to download the whole folder or something?

You have to download the "phonology" folder, the script depends on the .yml files in there

[Dezinaa]

Wow. That is 48 consonants and 14 vowels. But it only nasalized five vowels. Why Gleb why?

Because languages with constrastive vowel nasalization generally don't distinguish nasalization on all vowels. Nasalization tends to lower vowel hight.

What the heck are "apical postalveolar sibilants"?

Just what the name says: /ʃ̺ ʒ̺ t͡ʃ̺ d͡ʒ̺/ etc.

[Hallow XIII]

The more scientifically correct term for what is usually called a "retroflex sibilant".

(Are there even any languages with proper subapical retroflexes that have a sibilant at that POA?)

[Herr Dunkel]

Back vowels [u ʊ o ɔ] become non-back [ʉ ʊ̈ ɵ ɞ] before a non-retroflexed coronal consonant.

(seed: 1273003477)

Just why D:

[Hallow XIII]

What, that is a pretty common thing

[Herr Dunkel]

Also:

[mp mpʼ mpˠ mpˠʼ mpʲ mpʼʲ nt̻ ntʼ̻ ntʷ̻ ntʼʷ̻ ntʲ̻ ntʼʲ̻ nt ntʼ ntʷ ntʼʷ ntˠ ntˠʼ ntˠʷ ntˠʼʷ ntʲ ntʼʲ nṯ nṯʼ nṯʷ nṯʼʷ nṯʲ nṯʼʲ nṯ̺ nṯ̺ʼ nṯ̺ʷ nṯ̺ʼʷ nṯ̺ˠ nṯ̺ˠʼ nṯ̺ˠʷ nṯ̺ˠʼʷ nṯ̺ʲ nṯ̺ʼʲ ɲc ɲcʼ ŋk ŋkʼ ŋkʷ ŋkʼʷ ɴq ɴqʼ ɴqʷ ɴqʼʷ p pʼ pˠ pˠʼ pʲ pʼʲ t̻ tʼ̻ tʷ̻ tʼʷ̻ tˠ̻ tˠʼ̻ tˠʷ̻ tˠʼʷ̻ tʲ̻ tʼʲ̻ t tʼ tʷ tʼʷ tˠ tˠʼ tˠʷ tˠʼʷ tʲ tʼʲ ṯ ṯʼ ṯʷ ṯʼʷ ṯˠ ṯˠʼ ṯˠʷ ṯˠʼʷ ṯʲ ṯʼʲ ṯ̺ ṯ̺ʼ ṯ̺ʷ ṯ̺ʼʷ ṯ̺ˠ ṯ̺ˠʼ ṯ̺ˠʷ ṯ̺ˠʼʷ ṯ̺ʲ ṯ̺ʼʲ c cʼ k kʼ kʷ kʼʷ q qʼ qʷ qʼʷ nt͡sʼ̻ nt͡sʼʷ̻ nt͡sˠʼ̻ nt͡sˠʼʷ̻ nt͡sʼʲ̻ nt͡sʼ nt͡sʼʷ nt͡sˠʼ nt͡sˠʼʷ nt͡sʼʲ nt͡ʃʼ nt͡ʃʼʷ nt͡ʃˠʼ nt͡ʃˠʼʷ nt͡ɕʼ nt͡ʃ̺ʼ nt͡ʃ̺ʼʷ nt͡ʃ̺ˠʼ nt͡ʃ̺ˠʼʷ nt͡ɕ̺ʼ t͡sʼ̻ t͡sʼʷ̻ t͡sˠʼ̻ t͡sˠʼʷ̻ t͡sʼʲ̻ t͡sʼ t͡sʼʷ t͡sˠʼ t͡sˠʼʷ t͡sʼʲ t͡ʃʼ t͡ʃʼʷ t͡ʃˠʼ t͡ʃˠʼʷ t͡ɕʼ t͡ʃ̺ʼ t͡ʃ̺ʼʷ t͡ʃ̺ˠʼ t͡ʃ̺ˠʼʷ t͡ɕ̺ʼ] become aspirated before a voiceless fricative. Affricate sibilants become unaspirated; ejective stops become non-ejective.

(s:1273723903)

Another "why"

[vokzhen]

Wow. That is 48 consonants and 14 vowels. But it only nasalized five vowels. Why Gleb why?

Because languages with constrastive vowel nasalization generally don't distinguish nasalization on all vowels. Nasalization tends to lower vowel hight.

Iirc, there's several things that can happen, probably related to nasal vowels being less precise in both acoustics and articulation than oral ones. There are, after all, quite a few languages with stable peripheral nasalized vowels.

Back vowels [u ʊ o ɔ] become non-back [ʉ ʊ̈ ɵ ɞ] before a non-retroflexed coronal consonant.

(seed: 1273003477)

Just why D:

Yea this isn't too uncommon, it just looks weird at first. It's basically how Mandarin and Tibetan (Standard Tibetan, at least) got their front-rounded vowels, and I think a similar process is allophonic in some Eskimo dialects. And English does something similar too where /u/ is most [y]-like in words like food, cute, moot.

[Nortaneous]

nasalization tends to *reduce contrasts* in vowels

gleb thinks nasalization can only lower vowels, but it's wrong

[Herr Dunkel]

Back vowels [u ʊ o ɔ] become non-back [ʉ ʊ̈ ɵ ɞ] before a non-retroflexed coronal consonant.

(seed: 1273003477)

Just why D:

Yea this isn't too uncommon, it just looks weird at first. It's basically how Mandarin and Tibetan (Standard Tibetan, at least) got their front-rounded vowels, and I think a similar process is allophonic in some Eskimo dialects. And English does something similar too where /u/ is most [y]-like in words like food, cute, moot.

Actually yeah now that you mention it it makes sense

[Birdlang]

Nasals [m n ɲ ...] become non-nasal approximants [β̞ ɹ j ...] after a non-nasal voiced approximant. Palatoalveolar nasals become alveolar apical; [ŋ̟ ŋ ɴ] are deleted.

[Birdlang]

Nasal m n ŋ ŋˤ m n ŋ ḿ
Stop b t d t͡s kʲ k g kˤ gˤ qˤ b t d c ǩ k g ḵ ḡ Qɋ (yes, the small q always has a hooktail)
Fricative f s sˤ h f s ș h
Resonant ɾ j ɛ̯ˤ r j ḝ
i iː u uː i ī u ū
Mid-high e eː o oː e ē o ō
Low ɑ ɑː a ā
pharyngealized. no pharyngeals. what is up with that?
a nice little Arabic-esque phonology (the p-gap, BUT it has g, unlike Arabic, and finally, the pharyngealized consonants)
I'll make this into a Carthage romlang.

[Birdlang]

nice little phonology might use for an isolating language
Consonants
Bilabial Alveolar Velar Glottal
Nasal m n ŋ m n ꞥ/n with diagonal stroke
Stop p t k p t k
Fricative h h
Long fricative hː ħ
Trill r r
Long trill rː ɍ
Approximant l w l v
Long approximant wː ꝟ/v with diagonal stroke
High i u i u~w
Mid-high e o e o~v
Low a a~x (second choice is in middle and at end of words
(C)V syllables. Good for an highly isolating language with a Polynesianesque orthography, maybe add the macron for the long consonants. and only 13 consonants and 5 vowels

[Birdlang]

Bilabial-palatal Bilabial-velar Labial Palatalised
bilabial Alveolar Palatoalv. Palatal Velar
Nasal m n m n
Stop c͡p ɟ͡b k͡p g͡b p b ɓ̰ pʲ bʲ t d ɗ̰ t͡ʃ d͡ʒ ɗ̱̰ c ɟ k g ꝗ/q with stroke through descender ꝙ/q with diagonal stroke ꝕ/p with squirreltail ꝓ/p with flourish p b ꞗ/b with fluorish ṗ ḃ t d ḍ č ǯ ť ď k g
Fricative f v s z ʃ ʒ ç ʝ x ɣ f v s z š ž ś ź h ğ
Approximant ɹ j r j
High i i
Mid-low ɛ e
Low æ a ø a
has a Siberian-like 4-vowel set. and 32 consonants, which is perfect for some kind of tundra setting. Actually, the palatolabials and velolabials make me want to set it in Africa or Papua New Guinea and have all these wierd q letters (with stroke through descender, diagonal stroke, hook tail, and with umlaut)(C)V syllables.
Mid-low vowels [ɛ ɛ̰ ɛ̥] become high [i ḭ i̥] before a nasal.

/c͡pæçæ/ [c͡pæ̥çæ]
/fɛi/ [fɛi]
/jænɛtæ/ [jænɛtæ]
/sak͡pɛ/ [sḁk͡pɛ]
/æka/ [æka]
/xæisɛ/ [xæisɛ]
/t͡ʃɛcæxæ/ [t͡ʃɛ̥cæ̥xæ]
/k͡pɛjætæ/ [k͡pɛjætæ]
/sɛtɛ/ [sɛ̥tɛ]
/sɛkæc͡pɛ/ [sɛ̥kæ̥c͡pɛ]
/kæsɛkæ/ [kæ̥sɛ̥kæ]
/kæxæ/ [kæ̥xæ]
/sæxæ/ [sæ̥xæ]
/kaçita/ [kḁçi̥ta]
/æsɛ/ [æsɛ]
/næk͡pɛ/ [næk͡pɛ]
/ɓ̰atæ/ [ɓ̰a̰tæ]
/mæaɹæ/ [mæaɹæ]
/ʝæcæ/ [ʝæcæ]
/ætɛji/ [ætɛji]
/ʃimaka/ [ʃimaka]
/façæxa/ [fḁçæ̥xa]
/inɛɛ/ [inɛɛ]
/kæa/ [kæa]
/c͡paɟæxæ/ [c͡paɟæxæ]
/ɹakɛ/ [ɹakɛ]
/c͡pɛk͡pɛ/ [c͡pɛ̥k͡pɛ]
/ɹæt͡ʃæsa/ [ɹæt͡ʃæ̥sa]
/ɹææsɛ/ [ɹææsɛ]
/asɛ/ [asɛ]

[netzakh]

Seed 2010973128: /a i u/, no nasals, the only voiced consonants are /l͡ʋ̻ ʋ l̻ j/, one of the generated words is /s͡f̻it͡ʃʼʃus͡f̻t͡p̻/
Seed 2010349988: /ɛ i ɯ u/
Seed 2009173616: 14 vowels, 11 consonants

A small drawback in additional to the already noted ones: no diphthongs in the online version of Gleb.

[Birdlang]

Seed 2010973128: /a i u/, no nasals, the only voiced consonants are /l͡ʋ̻ ʋ l̻ j/, one of the generated words is /s͡f̻it͡ʃʼʃus͡f̻t͡p̻/
Seed 2010349988: /ɛ i ɯ u/
Seed 2009173616: 14 vowels, 11 consonants

A small drawback in additional to the already noted ones: no diphthongs in the online version of Gleb.

I cannot see them, even when I try to bring it up. What were the 11 consonants and 14 vowels? Were any of the vowels rounded central and front and unrounded back vowels in the diphthongs? how do you get the GitHub one working?

[Birdlang]

Bilabial Alveolar Pal. /
vel.
Nasal m n ɲ m n ɲ
Stop p t k p t k
Approximant j y
but
Front Central Back
High i iː y yː u uː i ī ü ǖ u ū
Mid-low ɛ ɛː œ œː ɔ ɔː e ē ö ȫ o ō
Low a aː a ā
(C1)(R)V(C2)
WHOA!!! 7 consonants but 14 vowels, that is twice the vowels than consonants. Might be the Blackfoot of my conworld (agglutinative AND polysynthetic with a small consonant inventory)
seed 1997902862.
C1: a consonant
R: one of /m ɲ j/
V: a vowel
C2: a consonant
words

/nimyː/ [nimyː]
/tœtu/ [tœtu]
/kuːka/ [kuːka]
/kitak/ [citak]
/taːka/ [taːka]
/kykœ/ [cycœ]
/kjɛtu/ [cjɛtu]
/nuœtmɔ/ [nuœtmɔ]
/kataknaː/ [kataknaː]
/tɛpi/ [tɛpi]
/kœti/ [cœti]
/kini/ [cini]
/ty/ [ty]
/taka/ [taka] really after this word with a long vowel first
/kɔnœː/ [kɔnœː]
/naty/ [naty]
/kiːtu/ [ciːtu]
/kɔppmyti/ [kɔppmyti]
/pɛpaːta/ [pɛpaːta]
/tyːkɛ/ [tyːcɛ]
/nœkma/ [nœkma]
/katuny/ [katuny]
/kiːtœ/ [ciːtœ]
/tɔuːktat/ [tɔuːktat]
/kypakaː/ [cypakaː]
/kmakpiː/ [kmakpiː]
/ata/ [ata]
/kikmɔ/ [cikmɔ]
/kita/ [cita]
/kuːkmɔkmi/ [kuːkmɔkmi] this is beginning to be like Pabappa, Poswa, whatever it is called
allophony
Allophony

Mid-low vowels [ɛ œ ɔ ...] become tense [e ø o ...] before a high semivowel.
Nasals [m n ɲ] become nasals and assimilate in place of articulation to a following consonant other than [j].
Nasals [m n ɲ ŋ] become nasals and assimilate in place of articulation to a following consonant other than [j].
Non-pharyngeal velar stops or nasals [ŋ k] become palatal [ɲ c] before a non-low front vowel or a front semivowel.
Before one of [ɲ c], alveolar stops or nasals become alveopalatal laminal stops or nasals; [t] become [t͡ɕ]. Before a palatal or velar consonant other than [j], bilabial stops or nasals become non-bilabial stops or nasals and assimilate in palatalisation.
Nasals [m n ɲ ...] become nasals and assimilate in place of articulation to the previous phone between a stop or nasal and a stop or nasal.
Alveopalatal stops or nasals [ṉʲ t͡ɕ] persistently become non-affricate non-coronal palatal [ɲ c] before a palatal stop or nasal.
Alveolar apical stops or nasals [n t] persistently become laminal [n̻ t̻] before an alveopalatal laminal stop or nasal.

[Pole, the]

Do you use Strawberry Perl or ActiveState Perl?

[Herr Dunkel]

1889023455 is p. cool with a regular consonant inventory and the vowels /a ã i u n nʲ/

I once got /xx̩xx̩n̻/, a couple of years ago, saw it on a Gleb best-of page I kept updated

[Birdlang]

I don't use the GitHub gleb, I use the online gleb.

[Birdlang]

The more scientifically correct term for what is usually called a "retroflex sibilant".

(Are there even any languages with proper subapical retroflexes that have a sibilant at that POA?)

Yes, and I think those are laminal retroflex.

[ObsequiousNewt]

I don't use the GitHub gleb, I use the online gleb.

Then you can't load from a seed.

The more scientifically correct term for what is usually called a "retroflex sibilant".

(Are there even any languages with proper subapical retroflexes that have a sibilant at that POA?)

Toda appears to have laminal /t̻ʃ d̻ʒ ʃ ʒ/. I can't find any other examples on Wikipedia.

[Hallow XIII]

The more scientifically correct term for what is usually called a "retroflex sibilant".

(Are there even any languages with proper subapical retroflexes that have a sibilant at that POA?)

Toda appears to have laminal /t̻ʃ d̻ʒ ʃ ʒ/. I can't find any other examples on Wikipedia.

Newt, I think you've gotten terminologically confused. Laminal postalveolars are normal postalveolars; "retroflex" is often a shorthand term for postalveolars that are apical.
However Toda does appear to have proper subapical retroflex /s` z`/ so the link answers my question anyway ~