Winged Clothing

[Pedant]

Here's another thread about my hypothetical "winged people", and something else I've been wondering about them. I think that, for the sake of decency (more for the readers of the book I want to write than anything else), I'd like to give them clothing of sorts that can be used. Now I understand that they're probably not as limited on the ground, but if I want to use clothing up in the air...well, it could be tricky. Not to mention the fact that their actinofibril-based wings stretch down to nearly their "hips", and end up covering most of the "arms".
So, what do you guys think?

[Pedant]

By the way, for the sake of expediency, I've decided to give my flying people the filler name of "Aer" for now.

[M Mira]

How about overalls with the sides of the jean part cut open to the hips?

[Salmoneus]

What is the problem exactly?

[M Mira]

What is the problem exactly?

Their wings stretch from their arms to their hips, so most human clothes would constrict like half of their wings.

[Zaarin]

Like Mira suggested, give them clothing that's open on the side.

[Salmoneus]

What is the problem exactly?

Their wings stretch from their arms to their hips, so most human clothes would constrict like half of their wings.

So why not have them wear them-shaped clothing?

[CatDoom]

Do they have feathers, or a similar body covering? If so, they may very well not wear any clothing at all, except for ornamental things like jewelry. Even if they don't have an insulation, I could see them wearing very little in day-to-day life; probably just something covering the genital area unless they live in a particularly cold region. Since they're more likely to be seen from below, and because hanging garments would tend to flap around uncomfortably while flying, we're probably talking about something that passes between the legs like a breechcloth rather than something more kilt- or skirt-like.

More formal clothing, where such is demanded, could be almost anything. I could easily imagine courtly etiquette in an Aeir kingdom demanding that courtiers wear cumbersome garments, like heavy robes tailored to restrain their wings but allow them to use their hands. This might symbolically demonstrate their subservience to the monarch, while also reducing the risk of violence in the court.

As for cold-weather gear, an overall-like garment such as the one Mira suggests might help some, but one would think that the Aeir would wind up losing a lot of body heat through their wings. Another strategy might be for them to cover themselves in an insulating substance that clings to the skin; people in parts of the Pacific Northwest used animal fat in this manner, but I'm not sure how effective it would be, or how well it would hold up, during flight.

[cntrational]

So why not have them wear them-shaped clothing?

Assuming a low amount of technology, clothing shaped for a specific person would be pretty expensive.

Which would be realistic, actually.

[Sew'Kyetuh]

[Slightly off-topic]

If you haven't already I would suggest looking into the aspects of trying to get a humanoid airborne before you consider what they need/would wear. The largest flying mammal we have currently known is a giant flying fox bat which I know is not a bird with feathers, but for the amount of lift required for their weight requires tremendous wingspan and wing loading (surface area).

http://www.amazingandweird.com/wp-conte ... 04/bat.jpg

^ Weighs less than 3 lbs / 1.3 kg, though mothers can carry 1-2 of the young, flying up to about 30 mph / 50 kph.

There are bigger that flew, the largest bird we know of, Argentavis (Argentina Bird) https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... 6ac10c.jpg did possibly weigh close to a human, but look at the wingspan necessary to carry it, and it likely had a really hard time getting off the ground like large buzzards. Next to it in that same picture is a smaller "Haast's eagle" which has similar wingspan to what a human would have (with long, gangly limbs still, but is less than half the size and weighed 1/5th that of a person.

There would have to either be an extreme metabolism (like bats which pee almost minutes after eating) or smaller birds who can eat on the wing, or considerable sacrifice in digestive time to flight for after eating.

[Slightly off-topic/]

That was to just to help give you perspective and inspiration, not discourage, and to help point in the direction of your question. I have no idea what other details are in your conworld so I don't know the full story of what you envision. But if you want to remain earthly realistic, the muscular power required means that the chest is going to be very largely puffed out and the back muscles will be broad. Therefore your clothes, if any, would have to be tailored to something with a ginormous chest. I did a 12 minute sketch to give you an idea of what we might be looking at. http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac19 ... g~original

If they don't have tails, then their clothes could form part of their tails. Different tail structures provide different advantages and disadvantages in flight with trade-offs. Speed comes from narrow forked wings whereas maneuverability and stability at the cost of weight come in graduated tails, and large-wide fan tails provide tremendous lift for altitude at the expense of speed. Most birds have to fly in one strategy or another, but a race of intelligent people who can (clearly) craft their own clothes would make their clothing-tails suited for their personal preferences or needs. A high-soaring military patrol would require the wide fan-tails and a pursuit-scout would have something more graduated in nature.

[sam]

If I understand you right, I have a conpeople with similar bodies—quadrupedal with wings attached to the forelimbs and to the body down to the hips. Mine have fur, so that eliminates a lot of the practical need for clothing (even much of the weather-based need, as I figure races from colder climes will have longer fur), but I figure they'll still want to adorn themselves somehow.

As far as some of the practical needs for clothing they still have, a tight sash slung diagonally across their bodies would be a useful utility belt of sorts (one could wear two of these at once that connect between the legs to form a type of overall, as has been mentioned previously). I also figure that some kind of footwraps/gloves would make walking and picking things up with the feel more comfortable.

I've come up with a couple of ideas that aren't "clothes" in the traditional sense but that function similarly. The first is painting/dying their fur. This may be a good way to display one's rank/trade (humans tend to use headgear, which tends to get lost forever if you make a habit of flying around). They could also weave animal hair (or if they're rich, other people's hair) into their own hair. The actual weave would be fairly short but would end in some kind of fastener to attach other clothing. So the fastener could stay in for a few months while still allowing the actual clothing to be taken off, changed, etc., and these fasteners could be made discreet or flashy, depending on culture, fashion, or whatever else.

What do you guys think about jewelry in such a species? Probably nothing too dangly, right? What are some super-light materials that naturally occur? Do you think those would end up more valuable than precious metals?

[sam]

If they don't have tails, then their clothes could form part of their tails. Different tail structures provide different advantages and disadvantages in flight with trade-offs.

This is a really cool idea. It could even develop past mere function into really cool imitations of birds' or mythical creatures' tails.

[Curlyjimsam]

So why not have them wear them-shaped clothing?

Assuming a low amount of technology, clothing shaped for a specific person would be pretty expensive.

In low-technology societies isn't clothing generally home-made? In which case it would generally be made to fit the specific individual it's aimed for.

[Torco]

I think the question is what would them-shaped clothing even be.

maybe this ?

i get the problem: if you have wings going up from your thigs to your arms where do you hang clothing, especially in such a way that doesn't interfere with your flapping around. you could, I suppose, wear a sort of pants that clasp at the thighs and hang from the shoulders? that way they can be all open on the sides?

then again, such a thing wouldn't be much use: would guys with this kind of anatomy even develop the habit of clothing anyway? we're weird, we're basically big savanna monkeys that migrated towards colder climates and [for a lot of us, though not all] lost their pigmentation, which makes us even worse at keeping warm; black people at least absorb more of the sun's heat through their skin, and a lot of our shape is about radiating excess heat more than absorbing heat we might lack: big ears, lanky frames, sweating, sparse hair that does little more than augment our total surface, especially in the areas where most blood is passing near the surface of the skin, ie the groin, the pits and the air, so we've become the kind of creature that needs to be all isolated from the cold and wind through clothing, but not all sentients would evolve thusly: even we humans, with our sensitive hairless thin skin and our easy-to-hurt sensitive bits hanging in front of us [as opposed to below us like normal quadrupeds] go around basically pretty much naked when the climate allows it [see the nice fellow at the start of this post], though we do cover up some and adorn our bodies with beads and paint and whatever, but if you're a bird, at no point in your evolution can you afford to become as terrible at withstanding cold as we did: you need to keep your feathers or thick hide or fat layer or whatever you use to keep warm around to survive up there in the air, especially if you fly for long periods of time: therefore, it seems quite likely your sentients wouldn't really need to solve this problem: they might still, however, adorn themselves, and wear hats. plenty birds have funky feathers on their heads, maybe they adorn their rooster crests with piercings?

[Salmoneus]

Clothing is not driven by the need for warmth. It would seem to be more related to status displays.

Note:
a) active people who seek shelter at night and don't run around in blizzards can survive without clothing quite a long way poleward. Here, for instance, is a man dressed as a Maori warrior: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapa_haka ... ancing.jpg. Celtic men in Britain were only a little more protected from the weather. In terms of the regions where civilisation developed, there was no requirement for clothing whatsoever, at least outside of extreme circumstances.

b) by contrast, here are some traditional costumes from Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suea_pat# ... gkhane.jpg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wedd ... 706%29.jpg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_cost ... embang.jpg. These are all hot places.

c) all but one 'civilisation' ever discovered has made extensive daily use of clothing, regardless of climate, and even the one exception (the Huastecs, iirc) did use clothing for ceremonial purposes, and did use personal adornments.


Of course, this doesn't mean a non-human species couldn't forego clothing - quite the contrary. Just that it's not that helpful to think of clothing as a response to cold.

[GreenBowTie]

op i'm having a hard time picturing their wings, do you have a reference picture?

[sam]

op i'm having a hard time picturing their wings, do you have a reference picture?

I think he means something like this? The wings anyway. Pardon the cheesy image, it's what I could find in a quick google search. Pedant, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Pedant]

Actually, you're not far off. The aer wings were definitely intended to be pterosaur-like, down to the extra finger extending the wing. The jaw's supposed to be a bit more bat-like, and they don't have tails as far as I know, but generally speaking it works well. I'll try and put up a picture myself at some point.
Sorry about the delay, I've been offline for a while.

[GreenBowTie]

I meant more along the lines of where they attach to their bodies

[sam]

Right, that's why I went with the one with the silly dragon head. I think those wings attach about where he's picturing