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zompist bboard • View topic - Concultures' attitude towards sex

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:58 am 
Sumerul
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I recently came across about the Romans' attitude towards sex, which I found an interesting read as it differs quite a bit from current cultures. So I thought that would make a nice starting point for those with concultures to discuss their conculture's attitude and practices.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:00 pm 
Avisaru
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The ʔuuleo, a Western people in the Akana setting, aren't particularly... enlightened, when it comes to gender relations in general, though their culture isn't quite so nightmarish as that of the They believe that men possess a sort of immaterial substance called ʔụk, roughly translatable as "strength" or "power", which grants them qualities not possessed by women or most animals. These qualities are believed to include not only physical strength, but also agression, ambition, and the ability to be both leaders and warriors.

When it comes to sex, this belief governs which partner is expected to take on the "aggressive" role as opposed to the "passive" role. Prototypically , the male, brimming with ʔụk, is on top, while the woman, who lacks ʔụk, is on the bottom. When it comes to sex between men, the man on top is seen as demonstrating that he possesses more ʔụk than the man on bottom. This isn't necessarily a source of embarrassment for the "weaker" partner; if a high-status man or a war leader tops a lower-status man, that conforms to the expectations of their relative social roles. If, however, a leader were found to be allowing other men to top him, it would call his ability to lead into question. Similarly, pederastic relationships between males are considered acceptable (though they aren't such an institution as they were in, say, classical Greece), since a young boy isn't considered to have any ʔụk until he receives it from his ancestors during a formal rite of passage.

Women having sex on top, however, is a more complex issue in the eyes of the ʔuuleo. A woman who exhibits the qualities associated with possessing ʔụk, for instance one who commits murder, tries to order other people around, or has sex on top, is believed to be under the influence of one of the seemhŋ. Seemhŋ are believed to be the souls of men who died of disease or starvation, or whose bodies were allowed to be eaten (usually by animals) after they died. They retain the ʔụk that they possessed in life, but lack any of the benevolent qualities of the men they once were, and thus they go around causing trouble, which includes sharing their ʔụk with women in order to create social chaos.

That being said, the ʔuuleo view of women with masculine traits is more ambivalent then one might assume. An unmarried young woman or a widow who is believed to have consorted with a seemhŋ is considered unmarriageable and potentially dangerous, but depending on the circumstances may actually be allowed to more or less take on the role of a low-status man, including an expectation to take part in armed conflicts with other groups. Such women, though rare, are regarded as visible proof of supernatural intervention in the world, and are often much feared by their enemies. On the other hand, they are usually shown no mercy in battle.

Married women who take on a masculine role in sex, however, are treated much more harshly. For a wife to consort with a seemhŋ is considered a terrible betrayal of her husband, and women who are believed to have done so are most often cast out of the community, where they are likely to die in the wilderness.

In either case, a man topped by a woman is likely to become the laughing stock of his village, and will be unlikely to ever find a wife or rise above the lowest tiers of social status.

It's also worth noting that people possessing ʔụk are believed to be able to cause harm to others by simply thinking ill of them or looking upon them with jealousy. "Masculine" women are particularly likely to be blamed for unexpected misfortunes that befall those around them, and to be punished accordingly.

As for sex between women, lesbian encounters aren't generally considered "real" sex in ʔuuleo culture. Female friends taking comfort with one another is considered perfectly innocent and ordinary, though women who seem particularly interested in that sort of thing are naturally still expected to get married and bear children for their husband.

Speaking of which, sex outside of marriage is very much frowned upon among the ʔuuleo, and is seen as a valid justification for violence among men. An unmarried woman's male relatives are expected to protect her, both from physical harm and from inappropriate sexual advances, and for one's daughter or sister to be deflowered before she's married is considered cause for shame. Because women aren't thought to be capable of resisting such advances, the blame falls squarely on the male partner. Depending on the circumstances, such as the age of the female partner, the relationship between the two households, and the relative status of the individuals involved, the man may be allowed to marry the woman and thereby escape punishment. Otherwise, the woman's relatives are considered justified in retaliating against the man, often by killing or maiming him. Once a woman has been married, her husband takes on the role of protector, and is fully expected to try and kill anyone who has sex with his wife.

The main exception to all of this is if the woman was found to have taken on the "masculine" role in the encounter, in which case the consequences for the male partner are usually purely social rather than violent.

EDIT: I should clarify that only heterosexual sex outside of marriage is generally considered a taboo among the ʔuuleo. As I mentioned, the ʔuuleo wouldn't usually consider anything two women can do alone together to even be sex, and men are generally allowed to fool around with each other regardless of their marital status. Part of the reasoning behind this is that same-sex intercourse doesn't run the risk of producing illegitimate offspring, but it also has to do with the fact that "normal" women aren't really considered to have any agency when it comes to sex, being the "passive" partner. Thus, when a woman has sex with anyone other than her husband, it's basically viewed as rape. An unfortunate corollary of that is that nothing a husband does to his wife is considered rape, though if a husband kills or seriously injures his wife, her male relatives may choose to retaliate.

It's also worth noting that a fair number of ʔuuleo women, particularly older ones with a good deal of life experience, regard some of these beliefs as rather silly. Generally, it behooves them not to state this opinion too loudly, particularly around a priest.


Last edited by CatDoom on Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:10 pm 
Avisaru
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Sexual mores in the Maja Empire are in many ways more open than in our societies, but in some ways not so much. It is probably also worth mentioning that the society I am talking about here is more technologically advanced than us.

So, the first thing to say is that sex, in modern Maja culture, is one of the Two Hands That Hold Up The World, which are basically the two primary preoccupations of Maja culture. The other one is fighting. The Maja recognize three parts of good relationships: friendship, sex, and romance. The ideal relationship has all three in equal measure. There are two versions of this kind of relationship: baraj and soderat. The primary difference between them is that the people in a baraj expect to - or already - have children, while those in a soderat do not. A related difference is that those in a baraj who currently have one or more children are legally required to stay together until their youngest child comes of age - unless, of course, some kind of problem like abuse comes up. Soderati can break up at any time. Unlike our concept of marriage, these relationships do not involve ceremonies marking their beginning and court cases marking their end (except, of course, as mentioned above re: abuse). Only baraji with children are required to register with the government. Soderati have no legal status. Any economic benefits that might come with marriage in our society are not tied to baraji and soderati. Such things are handled seperately, and can be claimed by anyone living together for an extended period of time, regardless of what variety of relationship they have.

The other varieties of good relationships have one or two of the parts, instead of all three. A yanloyuneg is a relationship with friendship and sex, what we might call 'friends with benefits'. This sort of relationship is more common among the Maja than it is with humans. A kazenscin is a purely sexual relationship. The partners come together to have sex, and that's about it. They don't usually last long, but when they end, it's usually on cordial terms. Then there is, of course, friendship, the Maja word for which is panoyuneg - yanloyuneg, above, is a portmanteau of yanlakai, 'sex', and panoyuneg. Lastly, there is the catyanar, 'half-love' - or more derogatorily, dorfusyanar, 'stupid-love'. Such a relationship has only romance and sex, but not friendship, and is not looked upon well. The idea is that without the firm bedrock of friendship, the passions of romance burn out quickly and explosively. Relationships that end turbulently are usually looked upon in hindsight as catyanari, though they may have been thought by the partners involved to be baraji, soderati, or yanloyunegi before the break-up. Notably, there is no relationship category for a friendly romance without sex. In the Maja conception, the idea is an absurdity - romance entails sex, though sex does not necessarily entail romance.

Another important concept in Maja sexuality is the nalar, which is a derogatory term we might roughly translate into English as 'whore'. While the term does cover actual prostitutes, it also covers other situations where sex is being traded for something. In Maja culture, trading sex for things is looked upon very badly - sex acts are for pleasure or procreation, not for making money or gaining social status. Notable examples of acts that will get you branded as a nalar are having sex with your boss to get a promotion (your boss will also be a nalar here) and performing sex acts for an audience, whether live or on video, whether or not you're getting paid. Both of these things are illegal in the Maja Empire - and yes, to specify, that means that live-action pornography is illegal. There is even a popular misconception that all forms of live-action porn are connected to child porn. The illustrated, animated, interactive, and written pornography industries, however, are perfectly legal and do quite well, as none of the people involved in the creation of such works are actually having sex with anybody to make them.

Homosexuality, bisexuality, pansexuality, etc. are perfectly acceptable in Maja society. Nobody makes a fuss about them. Transgender people are usually fine, as long as they are transitioning to male or female. People who identify as anything other than those will get some trouble from the more conservative elements of Maja society. This actually comes from ancient inheritance traditions, which were bilateral. The last remnant of this system is the inheritance of surnames - sons get their father's surname, while daughters get their mother's. It is thus not much of a problem for, for example, an MTF person to change from their father's surname to their mother's. But the conservatives get in a conniption about nonbinary people, as there are no proper surnames for them, and if they get to have whatever surnames they want, then everyone can, and then lineage will be nigh-impossible to track and then society will fall apart, blah blah blah. The rest of society typically doesn't care about such nonsense, however. No, the ones who get the shortest stick in Maja society are asexuals. As stated earlier, sex is an incredibly important part of Maja culture. To most Maja, then, someone who isn't participating in it must have something wrong with them. As such, asexuals face a hell of a lot of discrimination, possibly even more than in our societies, depending on context. Most Maja don't even know asexuality is a thing - if you described it to them, they would probably find the notion absurd. Aromanticism, if not coupled with asexuality, would be considered OK, if a bit odd, and maybe even somewhat sad, as such a person would be considered to be incapable of forming a baraj or soderat.

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Adúljôžal ônal kol ví éža únah kex yaxlr gmlĥ hôga jô ônal kru ansu frú.
Ansu frú ônal savel zaš gmlĥ a vek Adúljôžal vé jaga čaþ kex.
Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:52 am 
Sumerul
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Here's the deal for Kotanians:

Before I delve into the specific types of and attitudes towards sex, some biological background is in order. Kotanians, like all primates and most mammals* and birds*, show very little sexual dimorphism. Also, what could be considered the male sex since conception involves penetration by the male, and what could be considered female since the offspring grows inside the female body, diachronically the male penis is a female ovipositor, and the female womb a male breeding pouch**. This entails that the male actually produces the larger gamete, and in limited quantity ("egg"), while the female produces the smaller gamete, in a larger quantity ("sperm"). Also, vertilisation is only possible when the female ejaculates, for which she needs an orgasm, which is not possible when she is involuntary penetrated (which also is as good as impossible biologically), so rape by force is not possible.

There are two types of sex, penetrative and non-penetrative. Non-pentrative sex entails stimulating the sexual organs, akin to kissing***, while penetrative sex also involves penetration by the male. Note that this is a concious act, and does not add extra stimulation or pleasure, meaning that impregnation is a concious act, not an accidental by-product of sex in general.

In Kotanian society****, people typically chose someone to live together with, or bond strongly with, sometime after reaching adulthood. This is what could be a called a romantic relationship. These usually last for life, but either by arangement or circumstances may not. Typically a Kotanian will bond with someone of the opposite sex, though same-sex bonding is not uncommon. A romantic relationship is typically also a sexual one, though not necessarily.

Since there is very little sexual dimorphism, the physical act of having sex is, like kissing, not different between members of the opposite sex and members of the same sex. There is still a notion of heterosexuality though, and of the various grades between exclusive heterosexuality and exclusive homosexuality. Where one places on this spectrum is seen as fluid and a matter of personal preference; in no way is a part of the spectrum frowned upon or stigmatized. Transsexuality does not exist in Kota. The lack of sexual dimorphism and lack of gendertypical roles in society renders the concept moot.

Romantic relationships do not necessarily align with the position on the homo/heterosexual scale. In fact, for romantic relationships there's also a similar scale. E.g. someone may be prone to chose a same-sex romantic partner, but places themselves towards the heterosexual end of the spectrum. In case the romantic partner does not match the prefered sex partner, other arangements may be made. One of these are triads, where e.g. two male romantic partners have a single female they have sex with (either together or separate). This partner may or may not be living with them, but is typically not considered a romantic partner (though they may be). Another solution may be to have single or multiple sexual relations outside the romantic relationship, for one or both romantic partners (e.g. the exclusively heterosexual partner may have sexual relations with their opposite sex bisexual partner, who also has homosexual sex outside the romantic relationship). In general, when romantic and sexual preference largely overlap, romantic partners are assumed to keep sex between them, though this is a general rule, not something enforced by law or society.

There is no taboo against non-penetrative sex in public. It is seen akin to kissing, i.e. it is acceptable in some circumstances, but not in others (sex in the park while relaxing is ok, sex during a board meeting is not). Children may immitate adults, but don't yet have fully developed genitalia, and therefore do not enjoy the act physically. On the onset of puberty, the genitals fully form, and sexual experimentation starts. During this period, it is common to have sex with many different partners, both of the opposite and same sex, and during this period both the romantic and sexual identity develops.

Group sex is not common, though in some cultures, there are rituals that involve many people at once and sex with multiple partners. The average city or town culture does not typically involve group sex though. That's not to say a group of friends couldn't indulge in casual sex when the situation so arises.

*Note that these are sister classes in Ilyan biology, having a single common ancestor.
**This goes for all birds and mammals; there is no amniotic egg on Ilya, birds also viviparous.
***I'm not sure whether Kotanians kiss, so references to kissing are references to *humans* kissing, in Western culture.
****Kota is a large land mass, on which 350M people live, having many different cultures. It is also a fairly homogenous, technically advanced society, so what I describe here holds for the large majority.

I'll get to Sajiwans when I have some more time.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:36 pm 
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:06 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:36 am 
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The Woorlom have vír pleasurable contact, which is everything from holding hands (lómvír) to penetrative sex (wumvvír), and the sskóhoiþ or sskíþ, which is a session of intercourse for the explicit purpose of creating a child.
Vír is really only regulated when it's wumvvír involving both men and women; it's not allowed when the woman is menstruating, or a week after, nor if she hasn't done the proper rituals at temple (which include the consumption of contraceptives or abortifacients). Because of these taboos, it's generally not done outside of a sskíþ, since women don't like the hassle and men don't want to risk an accusation of rape.

A sskíþ is the end result of a courting session that might've lasted months or years; it is usually done many times. The popular version is of the two entering the man's clan home decorated in red and white, while the rest of the family is away; they make their way to a bedroom, where the man proceeds to stimulate himself to near climax, and then woman joins him, until he finally passes on the creative essence borrowed from his mother. The woman is serious during these first moments of contact, not seeking any pleasure until the second or third round. Finally, they leave the house together; the woman is congratulated by other women, and the man by other men; superstition holds that the longer a pair has to try to conceive, the harder one must celebrate with them.
It's not uncommon for all that to be a total mood-killer, so many sskíþ consist of the two talking for a half hour, having already had sex, or planning to do it later.

While the Woorlom don't have any words for it, heterosexuality, asexuality, etc, they consider homosexuality to be the default.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:41 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:31 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:13 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:31 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:05 am 
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http://www.frathwiki.com/Moonshine_Ethn ... and_Family

In a nutshell: women are taller than men, and dominate men completely in all areas of society. After a hard day's work, the men go to bed with women and get dominated even more. Male homosexuality is common, but it is almost a mirror of heterosexuality, and male homosexual relationships that do not have a distinct "top / bottom" (harč / pap) setup are stigmatized even by other homosexuals. These "homosexuals" are often attracted to women, however, and can even be married to a man and a woman at the same time. But they cannot be married to both each other and to the same woman: "triangle" marriage is illegal.


Not my primary conculture, but probably my most uniform conculture. And the female domination trait is the most "alien" characteristic to Earthans of all of my other concultures anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:10 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:21 pm 
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:17 pm 
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What kind of technology do the Là have, for context?

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Adúljôžal ônal kol ví éža únah kex yaxlr gmlĥ hôga jô ônal kru ansu frú.
Ansu frú ônal savel zaš gmlĥ a vek Adúljôžal vé jaga čaþ kex.
Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:03 pm 
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:35 am 
Sumerul
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A few questions:
- Are the Là human? Or humanoid? Where do they live?
- "our AD1600" - what part of our world? Europe?

And on the specifics of Là conception theory:
- How do Là women get an orgasm? It seems that Kulàrandrang's school of thought is compatible with auto-stimulation, but the other school is not?


JAL


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:19 pm 
Sanno
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:31 pm 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:12 pm 
Sanno
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I'm not sure what the problem is. If it's that women can get pregnant without orgasm, I've addressed that. If it's that women can have orgasms without getting pregnant, I've addressed that too.
(Besides, it's not as though Masters and Johnson are conducting rigourous observations among the Là, making sure that people in the control group don't touch their clitoris...)

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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:39 am 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:14 pm 
Sanno
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:21 am 
Avisaru
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I'm reminded of an anecdote from an anthropology class I took years ago. There is evidently a group of people in (if I recall correctly) Melanesia, who believe that conception is impossible unless the would-be mother wades out into the surf in order to receive some vital ingredient from the ocean (or some sort of being therein; like I said, it was years ago that I heard the story and I can't recall the details).

As I recall, these people acknowledged that sex was important to conception, but the really crucial part was getting the sea involved.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:47 am 
Smeric
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