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zompist bboard • View topic - Μλός Βλάχεαν Vlachian Language: Greeklang (NP: Our Father)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:07 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
IMPORTANT: The following post is unaltered from its original posting. It no longer reflects Vlachian. I've kept it as is for reference.

Hello,

I'm experimenting a bit with an Hellenic project, and playing around a bit with the vocalic system. But I'm unsure how plausible it is and want to ask for feedback. Note that the starting point is closer to Modern Greek than to Ancient Greek.

Vowel system at starting point:



Here is the process:
1) Lengthening of primarily stressed (tonic) and secondarily stressed (propretonic, some posttonic positions) vowels
2) Vowel breaking of longs vowels, except V:C#


3) Reduction of short and long vowels (details TBD)
4) Stressed diphthongs reduced to nucleus


5) Stress shifts to diphthongs

οὐρανός /u.ra.'nos/ > /u:.ra.'no:s/ > /uo.ra.'no:s/ > /uor.'nos/ > /'uor.nos/ υορνος
περιγράφω /pe.ri.'Gra.fo/ > /pe:.ri.'Gra:fo/ > /pea.ri.'Gra:.fo/ > /pear.'Grafʷ/ > /'pear.Grafʷ/ πεαργραφω
ωκεανός /o.ke,a.'nos/ > /o.ke:.a.'nos/ > /o.kea.a.'nos/ > /o.kea.'nos/ > /o.'kea.nos/ οκεανος
θαλασσών /Ta.la.'son/ > /Ta:.la.'so:n/ > /Tal.'son/ > /Tal.'son/ θαλσον

Problems to resolve:
-Paradigm pressure where grammatical morphemes are effected
-Levelling of stems?


Last edited by tiramisu on Mon May 23, 2016 9:23 am, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:32 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
πάτρυ μυ στυς υορν, αιαξ τα οαμα συ, [come] τα βαξία συ, γενι τα θίειμα συ, τυ στυς υορν κε στυς ιη.
['pat.ru mu stus worn ajaS ta 'oa.ma su . . . ta va.'Si.a su Geni ta 'Tiej.ma su tu stus worn ɕe stus ji]
Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς· ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομά σου· ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου· γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου,· ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς
Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:05 pm 
Smeric
Smeric

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Posts: 2316
Location: Bonn, Germany
The cases of /ie/, /uo/ I know are mostly from /e(:)/, /o(:)/. The only cases I know that have /i/, /u/ as the starting point involve breaking, e.g. before rhotics or phayngeals, etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:16 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
I guess I was trying to follow what happens with the mid vowels, where the nucleus retains the original vowel quality, but lowers in height after the nucleus. So you think it would be better if only ē and ō diphthongize?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:56 am 
Lebom
Lebom
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Location: Red Sox

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:25 am 
Smeric
Smeric

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
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Location: Bonn, Germany


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:13 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326


Last edited by tiramisu on Sat May 14, 2016 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:50 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Posts: 3581
Location: Milwaukee, US

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 6:29 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326


Last edited by tiramisu on Sun May 22, 2016 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:41 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:06 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326


Last edited by tiramisu on Sun May 22, 2016 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:15 am 
Lebom
Lebom
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:55 am
Posts: 184
Location: Red Sox
Following up from the stress stuff I said before, Wikipedia does a solid summary for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties ... l_features

I think you could also have fun with the dark /l/ trend as well, since it would be a fun way to reintroduce either /w/ or /u/. It would also be really wacky to see a Greek lang with <λλ> for one of those two.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 11:15 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
Thanks, Burke!

Today I worked out the verbal system, pronouns, and started work on syntax. Here's hoping I'll recall all the diachronics of the verbal system when I write up a post on the diachronics... which will probably be a while from now.

Scratch Post

Sentence dump:
μι ση'άγεοπ [mi 'ʃaγəop] 'i love you'
μιε αφτό άγεοπ/μι φτ'άγεοπ [mif 'taγəop] 'I'm loving it'
τυαβς φτ'άγαπακ ['ftaγapak] 'twabs is not loving it'
[ftu γra'fondas eɳ dʲo 'jinoa.skok] 'I don't know how to write it'


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 9:32 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 8:48 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
TC: Our Father

Πιεζμ πατσέαρας
Ο νεβές τεν ίσε
Σφατ συ υάνμα διν
Συ βασίη έρχεδινα
Νίετσικ νεβές τεν κε ηι στο
Πιεζμ επηύσι ετμέακ μάς δίδε
Κε πιεζμ οφίημας μας σίνχορε
Νίεστικ πιεζμ οφιλέτις σίνχορονη
Κε πίερασμυς ις μας άηενη
Αλά κάπ εοπ μας αδιάζε

[piεzm pa'tsεaras]


[nε'vεs tεn 'iʃε]


[sfat su 'wanma ðin]


[su va'ʃi 'jεrxεðina]


['niεtsiç nε'vεs tεn çε ji stɔ]


[piεz mεp'juʃɪ εt'mεak mas 'ðiðε]


[çε piεz mo'fijmas mas 'ʃiŋxorε]


['niεstiç piεz mofi'λεtiʃ 'ʃiŋxoroɳ]


[çε 'pierasmus iʃ mas 'ajεɳ]


[a'la kap əop mas aði'aʒε]


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:27 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
Dump:

Auld Lang Syne



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:22 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:13 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Ohio


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:53 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
That's actually a great idea. I'll think on it a little, and decide what to do, but I believe I'm tempted to do as much. My problem with υ of course is that if it did not represent /u/, then it would basically only appear in the combo ου, because all other instances of υ are now written ι. But υ for /u/ would be kind of weird, and I think the Vlachians would have been familiar with the ligature ȣ, which is very common in iconography. But ȣ solves the problem of oυ in that it's a single grapheme. Thank you!


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