zompist bboard

THIS IS AN ARCHIVE ONLY - see Ephemera
It is currently Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:01 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:07 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
IMPORTANT: The following post is unaltered from its original posting. It no longer reflects Vlachian. I've kept it as is for reference.

Hello,

I'm experimenting a bit with an Hellenic project, and playing around a bit with the vocalic system. But I'm unsure how plausible it is and want to ask for feedback. Note that the starting point is closer to Modern Greek than to Ancient Greek.

Vowel system at starting point:

i
e



a
u
o



Here is the process:
1) Lengthening of primarily stressed (tonic) and secondarily stressed (propretonic, some posttonic positions) vowels
2) Vowel breaking of longs vowels, except V:C#

i > ī > ie
e > ē > ea



a > ā
u > ū > uo
o > ō > oa


3) Reduction of short and long vowels (details TBD)
4) Stressed diphthongs reduced to nucleus

ie > i
ea > e



ā > a
uo > u
oa > o


5) Stress shifts to diphthongs

οὐρανός /u.ra.'nos/ > /u:.ra.'no:s/ > /uo.ra.'no:s/ > /uor.'nos/ > /'uor.nos/ υορνος
περιγράφω /pe.ri.'Gra.fo/ > /pe:.ri.'Gra:fo/ > /pea.ri.'Gra:.fo/ > /pear.'Grafʷ/ > /'pear.Grafʷ/ πεαργραφω
ωκεανός /o.ke,a.'nos/ > /o.ke:.a.'nos/ > /o.kea.a.'nos/ > /o.kea.'nos/ > /o.'kea.nos/ οκεανος
θαλασσών /Ta.la.'son/ > /Ta:.la.'so:n/ > /Tal.'son/ > /Tal.'son/ θαλσον

Problems to resolve:
-Paradigm pressure where grammatical morphemes are effected
-Levelling of stems?

_________________


Last edited by tiramisu on Mon May 23, 2016 9:23 am, edited 7 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:32 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
πάτρυ μυ στυς υορν, αιαξ τα οαμα συ, [come] τα βαξία συ, γενι τα θίειμα συ, τυ στυς υορν κε στυς ιη.
['pat.ru mu stus worn ajaS ta 'oa.ma su . . . ta va.'Si.a su Geni ta 'Tiej.ma su tu stus worn ɕe stus ji]
Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς· ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομά σου· ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου· γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου,· ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς
Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:05 pm 
Smeric
Smeric

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Posts: 2316
Location: Bonn, Germany
The cases of /ie/, /uo/ I know are mostly from /e(:)/, /o(:)/. The only cases I know that have /i/, /u/ as the starting point involve breaking, e.g. before rhotics or phayngeals, etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:16 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
I guess I was trying to follow what happens with the mid vowels, where the nucleus retains the original vowel quality, but lowers in height after the nucleus. So you think it would be better if only ē and ō diphthongize?

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:56 am 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:55 am
Posts: 184
Location: Red Sox
I'm going to jump in cause this is pretty cool. The overall loss of syllables reminds me of Modern accents of Northern Greeks sort of where /i/ and /u/ will plop off at the end of words and for some in unstressed syllables and there's a bunch of /e/ -> [i] and /o/ -> [u]. Stress, IIRC, plays a big role in this. I like the direction this is going off the bat.

Some notes on this:

Gúmmíkjúklingurinn wrote:
πάτρυ μυ στυς υορν, αιαξ τα οαμα συ, [come] τα βαξία συ, γενι τα θίειμα συ, τυ στυς υορν κε στυς ιη.
['pat.ru mu stus worn ajaS ta 'oa.ma su . . . ta va.'Si.a su Geni ta 'Tiej.ma su tu stus worn ɕe stus ji]
Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς· ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομά σου· ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου· γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου,· ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς
Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven


<υ> for /u/ strikes me as very ungreek. That letter has been front for a long time, and <ου> as /u/ seems to have been the back one or /o:/ in most places for a long time. I don't know the history all that well, but from a Modern Greek perspective, it isn't pleasing to my eyes. I could bite into it more for a non-Greek language though.

πάτρυ μυ ... οαμα συ ... I think it would be cool if you drew this out a bit more. Those possessive markers often mess with stress a bit, and I think it would be cool to see here.

στυς ιη: did this noun change gender or has this Grecolang lost gender? Maybe I'm missing something for the articles. Also, I think the tendency would be more strongly to γης. That iotified gamma, whatever you want to call it, has serious intrusion power in Greek. It will pop up in neuter plurals that have -ι as the ending. I've heard people pull it up in κλαίει even, and similar verbs.

_________________
Formerly a vegetable


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:25 am 
Smeric
Smeric

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Posts: 2316
Location: Bonn, Germany
Gúmmíkjúklingurinn wrote:
I guess I was trying to follow what happens with the mid vowels, where the nucleus retains the original vowel quality, but lowers in height after the nucleus. So you think it would be better if only ē and ō diphthongize?

As I said, for /i:/ and /u:/ I could imagine some conditioned diphthongisation to /ie/ /uo/, but I don't know any examples for an unconditioned development in that direction (that may just show my limited knowledge). Or, of course, you could use the bog-standard unconditioned diphthongisations towards /ei/, /ai/, rsp. /ou/, /au/.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:13 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
My apologies for not keeping up. This was a Spring Break project of mine while Anthologica is down, and I simply haven't had time to work on it since Spring Break has ended. I'll be working on it more after the semester ends.

Burke wrote:
I'm going to jump in cause this is pretty cool. The overall loss of syllables reminds me of Modern accents of Northern Greeks sort of where /i/ and /u/ will plop off at the end of words and for some in unstressed syllables and there's a bunch of /e/ -> [i] and /o/ -> [u]. Stress, IIRC, plays a big role in this. I like the direction this is going off the bat.

Great! Playing with stress was one of my top priorities, so I'm glad it's having an effect.

Quote:
Some notes on this:

Gúmmíkjúklingurinn wrote:
πάτρυ μυ στυς υορν, αιαξ τα οαμα συ, [come] τα βαξία συ, γενι τα θίειμα συ, τυ στυς υορν κε στυς ιη.
['pat.ru mu stus worn ajaS ta 'oa.ma su . . . ta va.'Si.a su Geni ta 'Tiej.ma su tu stus worn ɕe stus ji]
Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς· ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομά σου· ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου· γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου,· ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς
Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven


<υ> for /u/ strikes me as very ungreek. That letter has been front for a long time, and <ου> as /u/ seems to have been the back one or /o:/ in most places for a long time. I don't know the history all that well, but from a Modern Greek perspective, it isn't pleasing to my eyes. I could bite into it more for a non-Greek language though.


Of course. I originally had <ου> everywhere for /u/, but it seemed rather cumbersome given the frequency of /u/ in this conlang relative to Greek. The justification I had in mind was due to a loss of literacy in Classical Greek, wherein less educated speakers would use υ and ι and η interchangeably for all instances of /i/. Eventually, the phoneme is simply spelled <ι> in almost every case, with <η> used for /i/ in cases of /ji/. Well, then this leaves υ only in diphthongs, and the frequent phoneme /u/ spelled as <ου>. It seems to me only natural that they would condense the spelling to <υ>.

Quote:
πάτρυ μυ ... οαμα συ ... I think it would be cool if you drew this out a bit more. Those possessive markers often mess with stress a bit, and I think it would be cool to see here.

στυς ιη: did this noun change gender or has this Grecolang lost gender?

Yes, gender has been lost! After finals, I'll find my notes and write a post about this process. It was something I grappled with slightly, because, from what I remember, I was originally left with gender showing up only infrequently, but in the cases where it did show up, it wasn't easy to get rid of. I believe I just decided that the gendered forms would fall out of disuse through displacement.

Thanks! I really appreciate your input.

_________________


Last edited by tiramisu on Sat May 14, 2016 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:50 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Posts: 3581
Location: Milwaukee, US
Gúmmíkjúklingurinn wrote:
Quote:
<υ> for /u/ strikes me as very ungreek. That letter has been front for a long time, and <ου> as /u/ seems to have been the back one or /o:/ in most places for a long time. I don't know the history all that well, but from a Modern Greek perspective, it isn't pleasing to my eyes. I could bite into it more for a non-Greek language though.


Of course. I originally had <ου> everywhere for /u/, but it seemed rather cumbersome given the frequency of /u/ in this conlang relative to Greek. The justification I had in mind was due to a loss of literacy in Classical Greek, wherein less educated speakers would use υ and ι and η interchangeably for all instances of /i/. Eventually, the phoneme is simply spelled <ι> in almost every case, with <η> used for /i/ in cases of /ji/. Well, then this leaves υ only in diphthongs, and the frequent phoneme /u/ spelled as <ου>. It seems to me only natural that they would condense the spelling to <ου>.


This makes me think of what happened with /u/ in Cyrillic.

_________________
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 6:29 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
The assumed mother language that I am working off of is Byzantine Greek around the time of the Battle of Manzikert, which is the starting point of the alt history world in which the language is placed. The alt history isn't important for me; its purpose is simply to provide direction when needed. It is still unclear to me who the victor of Manzikert will be, but I intend for the Seljuk invasion of Anatolia to be turned back.

Historical Background

In the turmoil in Anatolia, meanwhile, some Greek speakers flee and eventually settle near the northern frontiers of the western half of the Byzantine empire, in or near the theme of Paristrion. The relative security of the area at the time, combined with the ease of settling and the lower cost of living, was appealing. Unfortunately, the large scale migration of Greeks in the area culminated in new upheaval and ultimately the Battle of Levounion. They enjoyed close relations with the Cumans thereafter.

The Bulgarian revolt marked the beginning of the population being cut off and becoming a distinct community from the Greeks in the Byzantine empire. This particular population of Greeks was tolerated in the new Bulgarian empire for having enjoyed close relations with the Cumans for several generations, while retaining strained relations with the Byzantine empire. Likely they were involved in the revolt.

It was during this period that they would often become confused with the Romanian people. Both groups seemed to refer to themselves as Romans, and both had the term Wallachian commonly applied to them as an exonym. Today, the Romanians have become known according to the Roman xenonym, and the community at hand has become known according to the Wallachian xenonym. In English, the xenonym is typically rendered Vlachian to distinguish them both from the Vlach people, and from residents of Wallachia. Likewise, the language is today known as Μλός Βλάχεαν, the Vlachian Language. The term Ρόαμεαν, "Romanian," seems to have always been considered derogatory to the Vlachians, who have variously applied it to either the Romanians or the Greeks.

Mother Tongue
By the point of departure, Byzantine Greek had already adapted to something perhaps closer to Modern Greek than to Classical Greek. This seems especially true in phonology:
    ι η υ ει οι υι had merged
    αι had merged with ε
    ο ω had merged
    ου had become /u/
    υ as the second element of a diphthong had become spirantized
    voiced plosives had become spirantized
    aspirated plosives had become spirantized and remained unvoiced
    temporal augment disappears

Some important grammatical developments had happened as well:
    dative has mostly disappeared, leaving only nominative, accusative, and a genitive
    noun declension paradigms begin to merge
    infinitives are in the process of disappearing
    participles begin functioning as gerunds
    perfect active tense becomes fused with the aorist
    tensing disappears in all moods except the indicative

Language Contact
Vlachian has suffered much language contact. Slavic, Ponto-Caspian and Romanian have served as lexifiers.

Vlachian seems to have an areal feature of vowel breaking that it shares with Romanian. The directionality of this feature has not been established. It is more advanced in Vlachian, but that Romanian has lexified Vlachian and not vice versa would suggest that the feature began in Romanian.

_________________


Last edited by tiramisu on Sun May 22, 2016 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:41 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
That thing happened to me where I wrote up a huge long post and then accidentally lost it as I was trying to post it. So here is an abbreviated version of what I wrote up this afternoon. I think it touches all the main points, though.

Note: You will notice inconsistencies between this post and the two OPs. I am aware of this, but have chosen to keep the OPs as is for now, for various reasons.


History of Noun Declension
A number of changes had already been underway in Greek. The dative had become obsolete, and phonological changes, such as loss of vowel length, led to merging declension paradigms. First and second declensions had largely, though not entirely, boiled down to the following forms in the singular:
Code:
   Singular Nouns
       M     F     N
Nom   -ος   -α   -ον
Acc   -ον   -αν   -ον
Gen   -ου   -ας   -ου

Not all nouns fit neatly into the gendered paradigms. However, it seemed that the association of the paradigms with gender had been enregistered among Greek speakers as:
Code:
   Singular Nouns
       M    F   N
Nom   -ς   Ø   -ν
Acc   -ν   -ν  -ν
Gen   Ø*   -ς   Ø

* While the morpheme was –ου, it was likely still pronounced similarly or identically to ο in this environment, such that the speakers interpreted it identically with ο.

This theme spread into the third declension via the accusative form:
Code:
   Before              After
N   πατήρ       -ς→   πατέρας
A   πατέρα      -ν→   πατέραν
G   πατρός       Ø→   πατέρα

Likewise, the feminine paradigm was assigned to feminine nouns:
Code:
   Before              After
N   μητήρ        Ø→   μητέρα
A   μητέρα      -ν→   μητέραν
G   μητρός      -ς→   μητέρας

While the third declension as a distinct paradigm was collapsing in the singular, it was the third declension’s plural forms that were spreading. This process began centuries earlier, with a-stem nouns forming their plurals like consonant-stems. This may have been triggered through the phonological merger of αι with ε.

By this time period, these plural forms had been firmly established within the a-stem paradigm. Its spread in other paradigms was underway and ongoing. It did not, however, affect o-stem nouns, which to this day remain untouched in Modern Greek. The chart below indicates the incoming paradigm.
Code:
   Cons/a-stem   Other stems        o-stem
N   -ες               -ες              -οι
A   -ας               -ας              -ους
G   -ων               -ων              -ων
 

The plural forms no longer marked gender. Rather, the -ες, -ας, -ων forms were becoming the default forms, and o-stem forms were the untouched exceptions. This left significant overlap in gender.

This was the state of the language in the 11th century, when the would-be Vlachians settled in Paristrion.

At this time, another key feature was already underway. Final -ν had begun to disappear. It is difficult to measure how advanced the process had already progressed, but it was not long before the process was complete among the Vlachian dialect.

This had important consequences for the case system, which would now appear thus:
Code:
   Singular Nouns
       M   F   N
Nom   -ς   Ø   Ø
Acc   Ø    Ø   Ø
Gen   Ø   -ς   Ø
   Plural Nouns
     Other stems       o-stem
N   -ες              -οι
A   -ας              -ους
G   -ω/Ø              -ω/Ø

The only remaining marked forms in the singular declensions were the nominative masculine noun and the genitive feminine noun. These forms quickly fell out of use. The genitive, now indistinguishable in the singular and overwhelmingly unmarked across the board, soon collapsed as well.

The noun declension system was now quite simplified and no longer marked for gender:
Code:
      Default            o-stem
       Sg   Pl           Sg   Pl
Nom   -[ ]   -ες         -ο   -οι   
Obl   -[ ]   -ας         -ο   -ους

This system remained in place for a long period. Eventually, the nominative became relegated solely for vocative functions.

Later phonological developments further eroded the remnants of the singular declension. Final open unstressed vowels were reduced. In some cases, the reduction was reversed, and the final vowels remain in place up to the present. In most cases, however, the reduced vowel became devoiced, and subsequently disappeared, or left traces.

Examples:
  1. Apocope: σκάφον > σκάφο ['skafo] > ['ska:fo] > ['skafŏ] > ['skafŏ̥] > ['skaf] σκαφ (pl. σκάφυς) ‘ship, vessel’
  2. Apocope: θάλασσαν > θάλασσα ['θalasa] > ['θa:lasa] > ['θa.lă.să] > ['θal.să] > ['θaj.să] > ['θajs] θαις (pl. θάισες) 'sea'
  3. Labialization: οὐρανόν > οὐρανo ['urano] > ['uo.ra.no] > ['wo.ră.nŏ] > ['wornŏ̥] > [wornʷ] > [worm] υορμ (pl. ρανύς) ‘sky’
  4. Labialization: λόγον > λόγο ['logo] > ['loa.Go] > ['loa.Gŏ] > ['loa.Gŏ̥] > [loaGʷ] > [loaw] > [lowa] λόυα (pl. λόαγυς) ‘word, speech, saying’
  5. Back mutation (α): βάρβαρον > βάρβαρο ['βarβaro] > ['βa:rβaro] > ['var.va.rŏ] > ['var.va.rŏ̥] > ['var.varʷ] > ['var.vəor] βάρβεορ (pl. βάρβαρυς) ‘barbaric, uncivilized, barbarian’
  6. Back mutation (ε): ἄπλετον > άπλετο ['apleto] > ['a:pleto] > ['ap.le.tŏ] > ['ap.λe.tŏ] > ['ap.λetʷ] > ['ap.λeut] άπλευτ (pl. άπλετυς) 'limitless, boundless, undefined'
  7. Back mutation (ι): σκεπτικόν > σκεπτικο [skeptiko] > ['skeap.ti.ko] > ['ʃçeap.tsʲi.kŏ] > ['ʃeap.tsikʷ] > ['ʃeap.tsʏk] σέαπτσυικ (pl. σέαπτσικυς) 'contemplative, thoughtful'
  8. Blocked devoicing*: ἡμέρα > μέρα ['mera] > ['mea.ra] > ['mea.ră] > ['mea.ra] μέαρα (pl. μέαρες) ‘day’
  9. Palatalization: συγγνώμηv > συγγνώμη [siN.'no.mi] > [sim.'noa.mi] > ['sim.noa.mĭ] > ['sim.noa.mĭ̥] > ['sim.nomʲ] > ['sim.noɲ] σίμνονὴ ‘sorry’
* Liquids and plosives cannot cross syllable boundaries to end a diphthongized syllable, thus the final syllable is fortified rather than devoiced.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:06 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
Scratch Post
(i.e.: To be emended, edited, cleaned up, etc.)

Phonological Processes - Internal
Code:
Stage 1.
Lengthening of stressed vowels
Stage 2.
Breaking of long vowels into off-glides
Stage 3.
Shift of stress
   i. Stress shifts to the first heavy syllable:
      a. To a closed syllable (C)CVC(C)
      b. To a diphthong CVV
Stage 4.
Reduction of vowels in open syllables
   i. Reduction is blocked after a closed syllable and before another open syllable
Labialization of velars before dentals
   i. kt > pt; gn > mn; ks > ps
t, k, s, l > tsʲ, ç, ʃ, λ / _i, _e
l > r / .C_
Stage 5.
Syncope
   i. Of reduced vowels in the interior of a word
Devoicing
   i. Of final vowels
tsʲ > ts
ʃç > ʃ
Stage 6.
l > j / _., #_,
λ > j / _i
Reduction of off-glides to nucleus in environment of l,λ > j
Stage 7.
Apocope (of final /a/, /e/)   
Labialization (from fission of -o):
i. θ δ ν ξ κ γ > φ β μ ψ π υ
ii. The following consonants “absorb” the labialization: φ β μ ψ π
iii. In the rest of the cases, a front monophthong of the previous syllable will undergo back mutation:
      a. ι > υι /ʏ/
      b. ε > ευ /eu/
      c. α > εο /əo/
Palatalization (from fission of final /i/)
Reduction of unstressed diphthongs in closed syllables

_________________


Last edited by tiramisu on Sun May 22, 2016 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:15 am 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:55 am
Posts: 184
Location: Red Sox
Following up from the stress stuff I said before, Wikipedia does a solid summary for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties ... l_features

I think you could also have fun with the dark /l/ trend as well, since it would be a fun way to reintroduce either /w/ or /u/. It would also be really wacky to see a Greek lang with <λλ> for one of those two.

_________________
Formerly a vegetable


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 11:15 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
Thanks, Burke!

Today I worked out the verbal system, pronouns, and started work on syntax. Here's hoping I'll recall all the diachronics of the verbal system when I write up a post on the diachronics... which will probably be a while from now.

Scratch Post

Sentence dump:
μι ση'άγεοπ [mi 'ʃaγəop] 'i love you'
μιε αφτό άγεοπ/μι φτ'άγεοπ [mif 'taγəop] 'I'm loving it'
τυαβς φτ'άγαπακ ['ftaγapak] 'twabs is not loving it'
Φτυ
PRO.3N.GEN
γραφόνδας
write-GERUND
ένη
be.3MS
το
N.REL.PART
ηίνοασκοκ
know.PRES-1S-NEG
[ftu γra'fondas eɳ dʲo 'jinoa.skok] 'I don't know how to write it'

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 9:32 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
I apologize for formatting issues in this post. I'll work on it in the future to make it neater.

Verbal Paradigms

The following are the verb paradigms in Vlachian. "/" is used to reflect dialectal variants. ">" indicates before-and-after sandhi processes that affect form.
These come from a lot of interweaving paradigmatic and analogical pressures which gradually caused a broad series of levelling and analogy. Some day inshAllah I will write up a post on the diachronics before I forget them...

Class 1 and Class 2 verbs are characterized by stress on the ultimate syllable of the stem in the present, and penultimate in the past. Class 1 verbs are monosyllabic and require augment, and class 2 verbs have at least two syllables.

Class 3 verbs are characterized by stress in the penultimate syllable in the present, and the ultimate in the past. They have an underlying historical vowel ending the stem, which resulted in a shift in stress patterns.

Class 4 verbs are characterized by vowel breaking in the stem, independent from and older than the vowel breaking now characteristic of Vlachian.

Code:
Class 1
   Imperfective                        Perfective
   Sg              Pl              Sg                 Pl
   Present Tense
1   γράφ-ο      γράφ-ονη      γράφ-σ-ο > γράψο   γράφ-σ-ονη > γραψονη
2   γράφ-ις      γράφ-οτς      γράφ-σ-ις > γράψις   γράφ-σ-οτς > γραψοτς
3   γράφ-ι      γράφ-οςη      γράφ-σ-ι > γράψι   γράφ-σ-οςη > γραψοςη
   Past Tense
1   έγραφ-ο/έγρεοπ*   έγραφ-ονη      έγραφ-σ-ο > έγραψο   έγραφ-σ-ονη > έγραψονη
2   έγραφ-ις   έγραφ-οτς           έγραφ-σ-ες > έγραψες     έγραφ-σ-οτς > έγραψοτς
3   έγραφ-ι/έγραφη   έγραφ-οςη      έγραφ-σ-ι > έγραψι/έγραψη έγραφ-σ-οςη > έγραψοςη
1   γραφ-ίεσ-ο   γραφ-ίεσ-ονη
2   γραφ-ίεσ-ις   γραφ-ίεσ-οτς
3   γραφ-ίεσ-ι   γραφ-ίεσ-οςη
Impv   γράφ-ι/γράφη   γράφ-ετς      γραφ-σ-ι > γράψι   γράφ-σ-ετς > γράψετς
Gernd   γραφόνδας
Partc.   Αctive   γραφόνδας         Passive   γραφόαμενη
Perf. γραφόαμενη έχι
Pluprf. γραφόαμενη ίχε

Class 2
   Imperfective                        Perfective
   Sg             Pl               Sg                 Pl
   Present Tense
1   διδάσκ-ο   διδάσκ-ονη      διδάσκ-σ-ο > διδάξο   διδάσκ-σ-ονη > διδάξονη
2   διδάσκ-ις   διδάσκ-οτς      διδάσκ-σ-ις > διδάξις   διδάσκ-σ-οτς > διδάξοτς
3   διδάσκ-ι   διδάσκ-οςη      διδάσκ-σ-ι > διδάχι   διδάσκ-σ-οςη > διδάξοςη
   Past Tense
1   δίδασκ-ο   δίδασκ-ονη      δίδασκ-σ-ο > δίδαξο   δίδασκ-σ-ονη > δίδαξονη
2   δίδασκ-ες   δίδασκ-οτς      δίδασκ-σ-ες > δίδαξις   δίδασκ-σ-οτς > δίδαξοτς
3   δίδασκ-ι   δίδασκ-οςη      δίδασκ-σ-ε > δίδαξι   δίδασκ-σ-οςη > δίδαξοςη
   Future Tense
1   διδασκ-ίεσ-ο   διδασκ-ίεσ-ονη
2   διδασκ-ίεσ-ις   διδασκ-ίεσ-οτς
3   διδασκ-ίεσ-ι   διδασκ-ίεσ-οςη
Impv   διδάσκ-ι/διδάσκη διδάσκ-ετς      διδάσκ-σ-ε > διδάξι   διδάσκ-σ-ετς > διδάξετς
Gernd   διδασκόνδας
Partc.   Αctive   διδασκόνδας         Passive   διδασκόαμενη
Perf.   διδασκόαμενη έχι
Pluprf. διδασκόαμενη ίχε

Class 3
   Imperfective                               Perfective
   Sg              Pl              Sg                  Pl
   Present Tense
1   άγαπ-ο/άγεοπ*   άγαπ-ονη      άγαπ-σ-ο > άγαψο   άγαπ-σ-ονη > άγαψονη
2   άγαπ-ας      άγαπ-οτς      άγαπ-σ-ας > άγαψας   άγαπ-σ-οτς > άγαψοτς
3   άγαπ-α/άγαπ   άγαπ-οςη      άγαπ-σ-α > άγαψα   άγαπ-σ-οςη > άγαψοςη
   Past Tense
1   αγάπ-ο      αγάπ-ονη      αγάπ-σ-ο > αγάψο   αγάπ-σ-ονη > αγάψονη
2   αγάπ-ας      αγάπ-οτς      αγάπ-σ-ας > αγάψας   αγάπ-σ-οτς > αγάψοτς
3   αγάπ-α      αγάπ-οςη      αγάπ-σ-α > αγάψα   αγάπ-σ-οςη > αγάψοςη
   Future Tense
1   αγαπ-ίεσ-ο   αγαπ-ίεσ-ονη
2   αγαπ-ίεσ-ις   αγαπ-ίεσ-οτς
3   αγαπ-ίεσ-ι   αγαπ-ίεσ-οςη
Impv   άγαπ-α/άγαπ   άγαπ-ατς      άγαπ-σ-ι > άγαψι/άγαψη   άγαπ-σ-ετς > άγαψετς
Gernd   αγαπόνδας
Partc.   Αctive   αγαπόνδας         Passive   αγαπόαμενη
Perf.   αγαπόαμενη έχι
Pluprf. αγαπόαμενη ίχε

Class 4 (Stem ending in -μ,-ν,-λ,-ρ have certain stem changes)
   Imperfective                          Perfective
   Sg              Pl              Sg                 Pl
   Present Tense
1   φαίν-ο      φαίν-ονη      φαίν-σ-ο       φαίν-σ-ονη
2   φαίν-ις      φαίν-οτς      φαίν-σ-ας       φαίν-σ-οτς
3   φαίν-ι      φαίν-οςη      φαίν-σ-α       φαίν-σ-οςη
   Past Tense
1   έφαν-ο/έφεον   έφαν-ονη      έφαν-σ-ο       έφαν-σ-ονη
2   έφαν-ις      έφαν-οτς      έφαν-σ-ας       έφαν-σ-οτς
3   έφαν-ι/έφανη   έφαν-οςη      έφαν-σ-α       έφαν-σ-οςη
   Future Tense
1   φαν-ίεσ-ο   φαν-ίεσ-ονη
2   φαν-ίεσ-ις   φαν-ίεσ-οτς
3   φαν-ίεσ-ι   φαν-ίεσ-οςη
Impv   φαίν-ι/φαίνη   φαίν-ετς      φάιν-σ-ε      φαίν-σ-ετς
Gernd   φενόνδας
Partc.   Αctive   φενόνδας         Passive   φενόαμενη
Perf.   φενόαμενη έχι
Pluprf. φενόαμενη ίχε

έχο (have)
   Sg           Pl         
   Present Tense
1   έχο      έχονη         
2   έχις      έχετς         
3   έχι      έχοςη         
   Past Tense
1   ίχο      ίχονη      
2   ίχις      ίχετς      
3   ίχι      ίχο      
   Future Tense
1   έξο      έξονη
2   έξις      έξετς
3   έξι      έξοςη

ίμε (be)
   Sg           Pl         
   Present Tense
1   ίμε      ίμεθ         
2   ίσε      ίτσε/ίτς         
3   ενη      ενη         
   Past Tense
1   ίμι/ίνη      ίμεθ      
2   ίσο/ύις      ίσατσε/ίσατση      
3   ίτο/ύιτ      ίτα      
   Future Tense
1   μ-ίεσ-ο      μ-ίεσ-ονη
2   σ-ίεσ-ις   σ-ίεσ-οτς
3   φτ-ίεσ-ι/ίεςη   φτ-ίεσ-οςη


* In Dialect B, some verbs undergo apocope and back mutation in some conjugations ending in -o

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 8:48 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
TC: Our Father

Πιεζμ πατσέαρας
Ο νεβές τεν ίσε
Σφατ συ υάνμα διν
Συ βασίη έρχεδινα
Νίετσικ νεβές τεν κε ηι στο
Πιεζμ επηύσι ετμέακ μάς δίδε
Κε πιεζμ οφίημας μας σίνχορε
Νίεστικ πιεζμ οφιλέτις σίνχορονη
Κε πίερασμυς ις μας άηενη
Αλά κάπ εοπ μας αδιάζε

[piεzm pa'tsεaras]
Πιεζμ
POSS.PRO.1.PL
πατσέαρα-ς
father-VOC


[nε'vεs tεn 'iʃε]
Ο
REL.PRO
νεβές
heaven
τ-εν
DEF.ART-in
ίσε
be.2.SG


[sfat su 'wanma ðin]
Σφατ
holy
συ
POSS.PRO.2.SG
υάνμα
name
διν
JUS


[su va'ʃi 'jεrxεðina]
Συ
POSS.PRO.2.SG
βασίη
kingdom
έρχ-(ε)διν-α
come.PRES-JUSS-3.SG


['niεtsiç nε'vεs tεn çε ji stɔ]
Νίετσικ
so
νεβές
heaven
τ-εν
DEF.ART-in
κε
CONJ
ηι
earth
στο
on.DEF


[piεz mεp'juʃɪ εt'mεak mas 'ðiðε]
Πιεζμ
POSS.PRO.1.PL
επη-ύσι
epi-substance
ετμέακ
bread
μάς
ACC.PRO.1.PL
δίδ-ε
give.PRES-IMPV.SG


[çε piεz mo'fijmas mas 'ʃiŋxorε]
Κε
CONJ
πιεζμ
POSS.PRO.1.PL
οφίημα-ς
debt-PL
μας
ACC.PRO.1.PL
σίνχορ-ε
pardon.PRES-IMPV.SG


['niεstiç piεz mofi'λεtiʃ 'ʃiŋxoroɳ]
Νίεστικ
so
πιεζμ
POSS.PRO.1.PL
οφιλέτις
debtor
σίνχορ-ονη
pardon.PRES-1.PL


[çε 'pierasmus iʃ mas 'ajεɳ]
Κε
CONJ
πίερασμ-υς
trial-PL
ις
to.INDEF
μας
ACC.PRO.1.PL
άγ-ε-νη
lead.PRES-IMPV.SG-NEG.IMPV


[a'la kap əop mas aði'aʒε]
Αλά
CONJ
κάπ
evil
εοπ
from
μας
ACC.PRO.1.PL
αδι-άζ-ε
empty-FACT.PRES-IMPV.SG

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:27 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
Dump:

Auld Lang Syne

Ξέχνεδινονη μνοστύς παλεύς
κε φτυς μνινονέβονηοκ?
Ξέχνεδινονη μνοστύς παλεύς
κε μέαρες τυ χάρα

Κε μέαρες τυ χάρα, μυ κάρδιε
κε μέαρες τυ χάρα
Ποτίερη τυ χόαριςη πινίεσονη
Κε μέαρες τυ χάρα

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:22 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:13 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Ohio
Gúmmíkjúklingurinn wrote:

Of course. I originally had <ου> everywhere for /u/, but it seemed rather cumbersome given the frequency of /u/ in this conlang relative to Greek. The justification I had in mind was due to a loss of literacy in Classical Greek, wherein less educated speakers would use υ and ι and η interchangeably for all instances of /i/. Eventually, the phoneme is simply spelled <ι> in almost every case, with <η> used for /i/ in cases of /ji/. Well, then this leaves υ only in diphthongs, and the frequent phoneme /u/ spelled as <ου>. It seems to me only natural that they would condense the spelling to <υ>.



If you wanted to reduce the frequency of <ου> - and I assume those who spoke.wrote the language would want to, also, considering the extra time needed to write two letters - maybe instead of representing /u/ with the fairly unintuitive (in the context of Greek) <υ>, you could use the digraph <ȣ> (capital <Ȣ>) for /u/, making it a regular part of the alphabet. Though I know you've made your choice already - I just wanted to put the idea out there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:53 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 326
That's actually a great idea. I'll think on it a little, and decide what to do, but I believe I'm tempted to do as much. My problem with υ of course is that if it did not represent /u/, then it would basically only appear in the combo ου, because all other instances of υ are now written ι. But υ for /u/ would be kind of weird, and I think the Vlachians would have been familiar with the ligature ȣ, which is very common in iconography. But ȣ solves the problem of oυ in that it's a single grapheme. Thank you!

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group