Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
Post Reply
User avatar
spanick
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:35 am
Location: California

Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by spanick »

I recently saw Herra Ratatoskr's "West Saxon" thread and was really impressed with his work. It reminded me of an OE derivative I had worked on a long time ago which I called "High Middle English" so I decided to revisit it. Long story short, it wasn't well developed and no longer what I found interesting so I decided to rework it and have come up with this. I originally wanted to put this language somewhere near the Faroe Islands, since I really love Faroese and it's given me some great ideas for changes, but I landed with Heligoland to put it closer to Germany and Frisia since I'm more familiar with these languages and they are definitely the main source of inspiration in terms of retaining English's "germanic" character (which I can only assume is the greatest inspiration for people making OE derivatives). So, sorry for another Germanic diachronic language.

At some point I will probably take anther step in changes so that Hálélannish is less of a dialect of ME and a more distinctive language but for now I want to flesh this out more.

INTRODUCTION
Hálélannish is a dialect of Middle English spoken on the island of Heligoland located north of modern day Germany. During the Anglo-Saxon era, merchants from England set up a small trading colony on the island to avoid paying taxes to the mainland powers. As time went on, the English population gradually outgrew and absorbed the local Frisian population. After the Norman Invasion in 1066, contact with England because much more scarce and the local dialect became more distinct. Due to this isolation, Hálélannish gradually became more influenced by the dominant languages in the area, namely Frisian, Danish, and Low German rather than Norman French as in England thereby retaining a much stronger Germanic character through the years.

SOUNDS
First off, there are about 15 broad sound changes that I've codified. Many of them (particularly in regards to vowels) are not drastically different than what really happened from OE to ME because again, this is more like a ME dialect than a new language (at least at this stage). There are probably more changes to come because they're more specific (there will also be some irregular changes, leveling, etc.) and I've yet to consider them but the following are the broadest strokes which suffice for most changes.

1. OE monophthongs continue over unchanged except for changes made below.
2. OE æ, ǣ, ā > /a ɛː ɔː/
3. OE diphthongs ie, eo, ea, īe, ēo, ēa > /e, ø, a, eː, øː, ɛː/
4. See table below for diphthongization of vowels preceding velars.
5. Anterior sibilants (/θ s/) are voiced except for in geminates and /sC/.
6. s > ʃ / __C
7. Degemination.
8. Close vowels lower to close mid vowels before /l r/.
9. w > Ø | [+rd] _
10. w > v
11. /x/ > /h/ / #__
12. v, n, r, l > [-voi] | h _
13. h > Ø / #_C
14. mb, nd, ng > m:, n:, ŋ: | _ #
15. Obstruents devoice word finally.
*Rules 1-4 occur concurrently rather than in a particular order but they must occur before rules 5-15.

VOWEL CHANGES TO DIPHTHONGS BEFORE VELARS
_ġ _gV _g# _w _h
i í iu igh
ī Í íu ígh
y ui ygh
ȳ úi ýgh
e ei eu egh
ē éi éu égh
æ ai au agh
ǣ æi æu ægh
a au au au agh
ā á ágh á ágh
u ugh ugh
ū úgh úgh
o á ogh á ogh
ō á ógh á ógh
ea agh au agh
ēa ægh æu ægh
eo œgh eu œgh
ēo øgh éu øgh
*I've chosen to give this table in the orthography rather than IPA just because I thought it would be easier. The original OE vowels are in the far left column and their environments are across the top row. The resulting vowels and diphthongs are written in Halelannish orthography. Note that <gh> is not silent as in Modern English but is nonetheless part of the grapheme for the diphthong.

CONSONANTS[/
Bilabial Interdental Alveolar Alveopalatal Velar Glottal
Stops p b t d k g
Fricatives f v θ ð s z ʃ x h
Nasals m n ŋ
Lateral l
Approximate ɹ
Affricates ʧ ʤ

VOWELS

SHORT VOWELS
Front Central Back
Close i y u
Close Mid e ø ə o
Open a

LONG VOWELS
Front Back
Close iː yː uː
Close Mid eː øː oː
Open Mid ɛː ɔː

DIPHTHONGS
a ɛ ɛː ʊ ʊː ɔ ɔː i iː
i ai ɛi ɛːi ʊi ʊːi ɔi ɔːi
u au ɛu ɛːu ɔu ɔːu iu iːu



ORTHOGRAPHY

Consonants
<p b t d g k f v ð h m n r l j h> are generally always pronounced by their IPA equivalents (<b d g> are devoiced word finally, <r> is /ɹ/)
<mm nn ll rr> are /m: n: l: and ɹ:/
<ng> is /ŋg/ medially and /ŋ:/ word finally
<kj gj> are /ʧ ʤ/
<s> is mostly /z/ except: /s/ word finally; /ʃ/ before consonants
<sk> is /ʃ/
<ss> is /s/
<gh> is /x/
<hv hn hl hr> are /f n̊ l̥̥ r̊/
<x> is /ks/
<v> is /u/ after and between vowels (part of the digraph for diphthings)
<þ> is /θ/

Vowels
<a> usually /a/; /au/ before <gh>
<au ai> /au ai/ <av ay> are variants used word finally and when followed by a vowel
<á> usually /aː/; /ɔu/ before <gh>
<æ> usually /ɛː/; /ɛːi/ before <gh>
<æu æi> /ɛːu ɛːi/; <æv æy> are variants used word finally and when followed by a vowel
<e> usually /e/; /ɛi/ before <gh>; /ə/ in unstressed inflectional affixes
<eu ei> /ɛu ɛi/ <ev ey> are variants used word finally and when followed by a vowel
<é> usually /eː/; /ɛːi/before <gh>
<éu éi> /ɛːu ɛːi/; <év éy> are variants used word finally and when followed by a vowel
<i> /i/
<iu> /iu/ <iv is a variant used word finally and when followed by a vowel
<í> /iː/
<íu> /iːu/ <ív> is a variant used word finally and when followed by a vowel
<o> usually /o/; /u/ before <gh>
<ó> usually /oː/; /uː/ before <gh>
<œ> usually /ø/; /ɔi/ before <gh>
<œ́, ø> usually /øː/; /ɔːi/ before <gh>
<u> /u/
<ui> /ui/ <uy> is a variant used word finally and when followed by a vowel
<ú> /uː/
<úi> /uːi> <úy> is a variant used word finally and when followed by a vowel
<y> usually /y/; /ʊi/ before <gh>
<ý> usualy /yː/; /ʊːi/ before <gh>

NOUNS

OE inflectional endings have been severely reduced, much like in other varieties of ME. While all three genders (Masculine, Feminine, Neuter) are still distinguished this is largely done with the help of articles and adjectives. The carious declensions of OE have largely reduced to three main declensions plus an irregular group:

MÚÞ Declension: historical A-Stems and Masculine I-Stem
Singular Plural Singular Plural
Nom. -(e) -es múþ múðes
Acc. -(e) -es múþ múðes
Gen. -es -e múðes múðe
Dat. -e -um múðe múðum
*some nouns in this class end in <-er> such as <finger> show syncopation with the <-es> endings Ex: <fingres>

VUND Declension: historical O-Stem, Feminine I-Stem, and U-Stems
Singular Plural Singular Plural
Nom. -(e) -e vund vunde
Acc. -(e) -e vund vunde
Gen. -e -e vunde vunde
Dat. -e -um vunde vundum

ÆYE Declesion: the historical "weak" or N-stems. R-Stems have also shifted to this declesnion (losing their umlaut in the singular dative).
Singular Plural Singular Plural
Nom. -(e) -en æye æin
Acc. -en -en æin æin
Gen. -en -en æin æin
Dat. -en -ene æin æine
*There is a regular syncopation of <-en> to <-n> after vowels, <r> and <l>

FÓT Declension: composed of the FOOT declsion and ND-Stems
Singular Plural Singular Plural
Nom. --- --- fót fét
Acc. --- --- fót fét
Gen. --- -e fét fóte
Dat. --- -um fét fótum
*Unlike in other varieties of ME, there is no leveling of the i-umlaut to the the plural, as in OE, the i-umlaut applies to Sg. Gen/Dat and Pl. Nom/Acc.

ARTICLES

Definite
OE <se> and <seo> have leveled to match the remainder of the articles.
Masculine Feminine Neuter Plural
Nom. ðé ðø ðat ðá
Acc. ðon ðá ðat ðá
Gen. ðas ðær ðas ðáre
Dat. ðæm ðær ðæm ðæm

Indefinite
The indefinite article <án> is declined much like a strong adjective.
Masculine Feminine Neuter
Nom. án áne án
Acc. ánen áne án
Gen. ánes áner ánes
Dat. ánum áner ánum

ADJECTIVES

Strong adjectives precede nouns which do not have articles or demonstrative/possessive pronouns.
Masculine Feminine Neuter
Adj. Singular Plural Singular Plural Singular Plural
Nom. -- -e -e -e -- -e
Acc. -en -e -e -e -- -e
Gen. -es -er -er -er -es -er
Dat. -um -um -er -um -um -um

Weak adjectives following articles and possessive/demonstrative pronouns.
Masculine Feminine Neuter Plural
Nom. -e -e -e -en
Acc. -en -en -e -en
Gen. -en -en -en -er
Dat. -en -en -en -um

PRONOUNS
For now, I'm only going to list personal pronouns. I'll get to the others later.

1st Singular Plural
Nom. ikj vé
Acc. mé ús
Gen. mín ór
Dat. mé ús
*There is significant variation of the Nom Sg., other variants include <igh, ik, í, egh, ey>

2nd Singular Plural
Nom. ðú jé
Acc. ðé év
Gen. ðín éver
Dat. ðé év

3rd Masculine Feminine Neuter Plural
Nom. hé hø hit hé
Acc. hine hé hit hé
Gen. his her his here
Dat. him her him him
*I'm still thinking about reworking the pronouns a bit and introducing some influence from German, but until then the direct descendants of OE will have to suffice.

VERBS

Present Indicative Personal Endings
These endings are not dramatically different from OE/ME. There is a strong preference for <-en> in the plural due to influence from German and leveling from the past tense, but <-e> and <-eþ> are also common in some villages.
Singular Plural
First -e -en
Second -(e)st -en
Third -(e)þ -en

*******
I'm going to end this post here because I'm pretty tired. After a break, I'll work on updating the pronouns and verbs sections as well as addressing word order and grammatical changes.

PS: I really hate that all the formatting I did was for naught :x Sorry that it's more difficult to read.
Last edited by spanick on Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
WeepingElf
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1630
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:00 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by WeepingElf »

Looks good so far. I like Germanic languages that retain their case systems.
...brought to you by the Weeping Elf
Tha cvastam émi cvastam santham amal phelsa. -- Friedrich Schiller
ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A

User avatar
mèþru
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Location: suburbs of Mrin
Contact:

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by mèþru »

One significant change that happened during the shift from OE to ME was the loss of cases. Why it happened is debated, but I like the idea that it was influenced by contact with Vikings who learned simplified versions of the northeast dialect of OE. If the colonists break away from England during the time of the Danelaw, that could justify the cases. If the area is influenced so heavily by Frisian, Dutch and Low German, it shouldn't have such sounds as /θ n̊ l̥̥ r̊/. Also, I would suspect that <v> would fade out of usage in diphthongs, with <u> taking its place. I feel like the diphthongs should be written more phonemically. North Frisian has alveolars with a palatal secondary articulation, which might also appear in this language.

Also, retaining case and other archaic features are not the only possible goals when making a germlang. Tonal English, for example, is a pretty interesting concept.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť

User avatar
spanick
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:35 am
Location: California

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by spanick »

mèþru wrote:If the area is influenced so heavily by Frisian, Dutch and Low German, it shouldn't have such sounds as /θ n̊ l̥̥ r̊/.
Agreed, I'm planning on having the voiceless sonorants regularlize back to voiced. When it comes to the interdental fricatives...I'm less sure. Although it is supposed to be influenced by those languages, those fricatives have a particularly English feel to me, which I would (at this point) like to retain. But the next phase of changes will likely see /ð θ/ > /d/.
mèþru wrote:Also, I would suspect that <v> would fade out of usage in diphthongs, with <u> taking its place.
Yes, I'm already finding problems with this convention (which I liked because it seemed rather Nordic). For instance, I have forgotten that there are cases where a consonantal /v/ is necessary between vowels.
mèþru wrote:I feel like the diphthongs should be written more phonemically.
Call it an idiosyncrasy...but I like orthographies which are slightly non-phonemic and more etymological. At this point, I have no reason as to why they would keep such an orthography before the advent of the dictionary/printing press...but I still like it haha
mèþru wrote:North Frisian has alveolars with a palatal secondary articulation, which might also appear in this language.
Thanks! I'll keep that in mind.

User avatar
mèþru
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Location: suburbs of Mrin
Contact:

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by mèþru »

/ð/ exists in North Frisian, but /θ/ doesn't. If you want to retain one of them, I'd suggest using /θ/⟶/ð/⟶/d/.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť

User avatar
spanick
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:35 am
Location: California

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by spanick »

Oh it does? Honestly, I don't know much about North Frisian, much more familiar with Saterland and West Frisian so I assumed it didn't have interdental fricatives. I appreciate the help!

User avatar
mèþru
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Location: suburbs of Mrin
Contact:

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by mèþru »

I don't know any of the Frisian languages at all. Googling and Wikipedia will get you very far, and there are many members and threads that can show you resources to use.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť

User avatar
spanick
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:35 am
Location: California

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by spanick »

Yeah, i have been. Wikipedia doesn't have much on North Frisian. Omniglot says that /ð/ is specific to the Sylt dialect.

Anyway, I have a couple sample texts that are relevant to Heligoland/Frisian.

Grén is ðat lann /gɹeːn is ðat lanː/
Ræd is ðé kant /ɹɛːt is ðeː kant/
Hvít is ðat sann /fiːt is ðat sanː/
Đá sinn ðá farbe of Hálolann /ðɔːs sinː ðɔː farbə of hɔːlolanː/

"Green is the land
Red is the cliff
White is the sand
These are the colors of Heligoland"

Buter, bræd, ann grén kjése is gód Englisk ann gód Frísk.
/buteɹ bɹɛːt anː gɹeːn ʧeːzə is goːt eŋgliʃ anː goːt fɹiːʃ/
"Butter, bread, and green cheese is good English and good Fries"
Last edited by spanick on Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Nortaneous
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 4544
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
Location: the Imperial Corridor

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by Nortaneous »

oh cool, another anglic conlang

cf. Butter, briaede, on grwyne çyse is good Inglisch on good Vreas. / Buter, brjæð, on grúin kjýs is góð Inglisk on góð Frísk.

more pembrish:
Grwyne bith at loand /grwɨːn bið ət loə̯nd/
Reed bith at clif /reːð bið ət klif/
Fite bith at soand /fiːt bið ət soə̯nd/
Thaes sind tha diaeghes ou Heligoloand /ðæz zind ðə dʒæːxəs ɔu̯ hɛligɔloə̯nd/

where does 'kant' come from?
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

User avatar
spanick
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:35 am
Location: California

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by spanick »

Nortaneous wrote:oh cool, another anglic conlang

cf. Butter, briaede, on grwyne çyse is good Inglisch on good Vreas. / Buter, brjæð, on grúin kjýs is góð Inglisk on góð Frísk.

more pembrish:
Grwyne bith at loand /grwɨːn bið ət loə̯nd/
Reed bith at clif /reːð bið ət klif/
Fite bith at soand /fiːt bið ət soə̯nd/
Thaes sind tha diaeghes ou Heligoloand /ðæz zind ðə dʒæːxəs ɔu̯ hɛligɔloə̯nd/

where does 'kant' come from?

I like it! The Welsh influence suites it well and gives it a good sound. What's the etymology of <at>?

"Kant" is a borrowing from Frisian and Low German. It means "edge, border, coast". It's present in the original rhyme and was kept and borrowed to keep the general rhyme scheme of the original. Native <klif> is retained and <kant> is chiefly poetic.

User avatar
Nortaneous
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 4544
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
Location: the Imperial Corridor

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by Nortaneous »

spanick wrote:What's the etymology of <at>?
"that" with irregular reduction, same as in Dutch
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

Travis B.
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 3570
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Milwaukee, US

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by Travis B. »

Nortaneous wrote:
spanick wrote:What's the etymology of <at>?
"that" with irregular reduction, same as in Dutch
That is found in real-life English varieties as well, it should be noted,
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

User avatar
spanick
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:35 am
Location: California

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by spanick »

@Nort: Have you posted a thread on pembrish where I can learn more about the grammar and history?

*****

Janko messaged me about numbers so I'll post them here as well.

1 án
2 tvá
3 ðrø
4 føer
5 fíf
6 sex
7 sœvon
8 aght
9 níon
10 tén
11 enlevon
12 tvelf
13-19 are formed by adding <-tén> (note that 18 is <aghtén>)
The remaining powers of 10 (20, 30, 40, etc.) are formed by adding <-tí> with the notable changes being 20 <tvéntí>; 30 <ðrítí> instead of *ðrøtí; and 80 is <aghtí>.
Other numbers are formed as in OE and Modern German: 23 ðrø-ann-tvéntí
100 hunn
1000 ðúsenn

User avatar
spanick
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:35 am
Location: California

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by spanick »

Still working on the verbs section, until then here are a couple texts: The Our Father and the North Wind and the Sun

Ór Fader
Ór Fader hvá in hevone is
ehálod vœrþ ðín name.
Đín rikje kom,
Đín vele vœrþ
an œrðen alsvá in hevone.
Ór dailíkjen bræd jev ús tódaye.
Ann forjev ús óre gœltes,
alsvá vé forjeven órum gœltennum.
Ann ne læd ús in kostnunge
ak álés ús van yvle.
Amen.

Đé norðvinn ann ðø sune.
Đé norðvinn ann ðø sune knæteden hvelkj strenger vas, hvane án ferenn, hvá mid ánum varmen mentel ebevaved vas, ðár kom. Hé erísnen ðe ðé stregner ðone ðé óðer ekuðed skœlde, hvá néden kúðe ðé ferenn hisen mentel ofdón. Đé norðvinn bléu mid aler maght, ak svá máre hé bléu svá fæster ymbvævde ðé ferenn him mid hisum mentlum; lætmest ofyev ðé norðvinn ðat anjin. Nú ðø sune skán varm ann hraðe ofdyde ðé ferenn hisen mentel. For ðý móste ðé norðvinn andeten ðat ðø sune of him tvá strenger vas.
Last edited by spanick on Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Herra Ratatoskr
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:26 pm
Location: Missouri (loves company!)

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by Herra Ratatoskr »

I'm honored you liked my stuff (though it's stuck in the middle of revision hell at the moment), and I like the look of your work. When's your point of departure, history-wise for this, and when is this supposed to be spoken? Will it survive into modern times as a language?
I am Ratatosk, Norse Squirrel of Strife!

There are 10 types of people in this world:
-Those who understand binary
-Those who don't

Mater tua circeta ibat et pater tuus sambucorum olficiebat!

User avatar
spanick
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:35 am
Location: California

Re: Hálélannish (Old English derivative)

Post by spanick »

Thanks!

History-wise, I'm purposefully being vague because I don't know all the details myself but if pressed I would say in the late 900's with the main speakers speaking the "standard" West Saxon dialect, or something thereabouts with some influence from other parts of England (not to mention Frisian, Middle Low German, Middle Dutch, etc.) For about until the time of the Norman Invasion, there was enough contact with England to maintain the language with minimal changes, but with a notable accent. As I have the language now, I would say it corresponds to late OE and/or early ME. A Halelanner would probably be understood in England around 1100, especially by common folk, but with some difficulty (According to one source I read, one could speak a Dutch-Frisian hybrid and be understood in England as late as the 16th century!).

Right now, my only plans are to bring the language into the era of the Hanseatic League (so like 1200-1500), right before the "modern" era. These will probably make it look a lot more Frisian/Low German and less English in appearance. It certainly could survive into the modern age, as have the North Frisian dialects, especially because the population would probably never exceed 2,000 persons and Heligoland is fairly isolated.

Post Reply