Modern Greek

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ObsequiousNewt
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Modern Greek

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

In 514 BC, Harmodius and Aristogeiton, commonly called the "Tyrannicides", attempted to assassinate the tyrants Hippias and Hipparchus. They only succeeded on the latter count, and Hippias stayed in power for another four years, until his increasingly cruel rule (and unnerving association with Persia) drove the Alcmaeonidae to take action to try to remove him. They bribed the Delphic Oracle to tell the Spartans to aid them in overthrowing Hippias' regime, and it worked. The Spartans marched to Athens, overthrew Hippias (allowing the Alcmaeonidae to take power and exile Hippias and the other remaining Pisistratids. Hippias later went on to join Xerxes and in fact guide him through his conquest of Greece.) An interesting consequence, however, was that, as the Spartans marched, they passed by Plataea, and the Plataeans asked them for aid in defending themselves against the aggressions of Thebes, which had been trying for years to conquer its neighboring cities and unify Boeotia. The Spartan king Cleomenes said no—such an alliance would be impossible to actualize due to the distance between Sparta and Plataea—but recommended that they seek help from Athens instead. They did this, and Athens accepted, and as a consequence Thebes and Athens became enemies. In the second Persian invasion of Greece, Athens rallied the various states of Greece to band together and repel the Persians—and Potidaea joined them, but Thebes refused, and instead fought on the Persian side. Following the war Thebes was punished for this action, by being removed from leadership of the Boeotian League. Athens, meanwhile, became the center of Greek literature, philosophy, and the arts. Following the conquest of Greece by Alexander the Great, its dialect (Attic) became the basis for Koinê Greek, which would later evolve into what we know today as Modern Greek.

In 514 BC, Harmodius and Aristogeiton, commonlie called the "Turannicides", attempted to assassinate the turants Hippias and Hipparchus. Theȝ succeeded on both counts. Immediatelie the Alcmaeonidae took advantage of this opportunitie to take back control of Athans. Theȝ exiled the remaining Pisistratids (Pisistratus son of Hippias in fact joined Xerxes and guided him through his later conquest of Greece.) Unrelatedlie, in 507 the citie of Plataea allied itself with Theibes to form the basis of what would later be called the Boeotian League, which was later strengthened bie the addition of Theispis as a defensive measure against a Thettalian invasion. When the Persians invaded in 480, theȝ were met at Thermopulae with a contingent of Boeotian and Peloponnesian troops, who, while not victorious, were able to hold off the main flank of the Persian armie for long enough for the Corneia to end and the main bodie of the Spartan armie to set out in assistance. Soon afterwards the Allied navie, led bie the Athanians, met and destroȝed or routed a large portion of the Persian fleet at the Battle of Chalcis. Following this decisive victorie the Persian armie was met and defeated bie a combined Boeotian and Spartan force at the Battle of Chaeronea. The following period marked Thebes as the center of Greek literature, philosophie, and the arts. Following the conquest of Greece bie Alexander the Great, its dialect (Boeotian) became the basis for Koenâ Greek, which would later evolve into what we know todaȝ as Modern Greek.

The native name, however, is Ϝεͱο̨τισς, or Weȝötiss.

(Information on the language will follow.)


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

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mèþru
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Re: Modern Greek

Post by mèþru »

Interesting! If Plataea allied with (or more probably, was conquered or threatened by) Thebes, the Boeotian League would not need Aegina to fight with the Athenians. This war was the basis of the Athenian fleet, but s smaller fleet might have been built anyway as Athenian citizens learn about Persian designs on Greece. Thebes, being far in land, could not fight for control of the Greek islands like Athens could. Unless if the Delian league, based on Athenian naval power, is formed and the Peloponnesian war fought, the lands of Greece would be locked in constant proxy war until the Macedonian invasion. That invasion, unlike the real life equivalent, could possibly unite the Greek city-states and kingdoms against Macedonia. Another alternative is that Thebes tries to make an empire of satellite states on land similarly to Athens' Delian League. A massive mainland Greek war between Thebes and Athens would ravage the land and the Macedonians could easily conquer the remains. Peloponnesia would be untouched. Several leagues would form to protect the area from Macedonia, but the Macedonians would turn the Leagues against each other to divide and conquer the rest of Greece.
To adopt a scenario where Athenian does not became the prestige dialect of Greece, I would suggest the last scenario. Athens could be utterly destroyed by the Theban army. Sparta, however, is most going to be the most powerful and least damaged area in the aftermath of the Macedonian conquests. I would make a dialect of Spartan with heavy Theban and minor Athenian influences the basis of Koinê Greek.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
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mèþru
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Re: Modern Greek

Post by mèþru »

Gytheion, a major Spartan port seems like a good candidate for the source of the dialect I mentioned earlier. As the Hellenic Empire centers on the Mediterranean, the dialect must be coastal. One issue with Theban is that that city was not coastal (it is today, but the city boundaries are much bigger).
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
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Re: Modern Greek

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

The scenario I presented is not without its problems, no. It's based on a simplified and handwaved version of history. In reality, the Greeks wouldn't have been able to hold Thermopylae for more than another day even with Boeotian aid, and it's doubtful that an allied force of less than basically all of Greece would have been able to stop the Persians on land, to say nothing of sea. If I really wanted to make Thebes as powerful as it should realistically be, I would have started way back with the Lelantine War.

But this way is more fun. All I need to do is help my friends the Turannicides kill one man.

(Besides, my goal isn't to get a dialect of something other than Attic—it's to get Boeotian specifically. Boeotian was a very interesting dialect with a very interesting vowel system, and it is what I used to create this conlang.)


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

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Re: Modern Greek

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Diachronics

Boeotian had many points of divergence from Attic. Here is a list:
More: show
  • No /aː/ > /ɛː/, no movable ν, no weak declension of i-stems, no /ti/ > /si/
  • contraction of /aːɔ(ː)/ > /aː/ (rather than /ɔː/), /ae/ > /eː/
  • backing of /ra/ > /rɔ/
  • lowering of /ri/ > /re/
  • raising of prevocalic /e/
  • resolution of *čč(ʰ) to /tː/ (rather than /s/)
  • assimilation of /zd/ > /dd/ (initial /d/)
  • retention of /w/
  • /g/ > /j/ after front vowels
  • /u/ > /ju/ after coronals
  • apocope of prepositions
  • nom. -ές/acc. -έ for pl. pronouns
  • 3rd. decl. dat. pl. -εσσι
  • nom. sg. -ᾱ beside -ᾱς
  • gen. sg. of masculine a-stems -ᾱο
  • gen. pl. of a-stems -ᾱ́ων (but article τᾶν)
  • inf. -μεν (both thematic and athematic)
  • 3pl. -νθ- instead of -ντ-
  • 3pl. -ᾰν instead of -σᾰν
  • imperative 3pl. -νθω, also ἔνθω [ὄντων]
  • part. of εἰμί is ἐών (not ὤν)
  • perf. act. part. -ων, -οντος
  • doubling of aor. -σ- after short vowel
  • occasional -ξ- in aorists of -ζω presents
  • ἐξ assim. to ἐς before cons., but ἐσς before vowels
  • patronymic adjective -ώνδᾱς
  • doubling in hypocoristics (nicknames), also hypocoristics in -ει
The most interesting feature of Boeotian is its vowel system. Attic Greek had mid vowels /e ɛː o ɔː/, inherited from PIE, and /eː oː/, arising from later lengthening of /e o/. Boeotian, uniquely, had /e eː ɔ ɔː/, an asymmetrical system that contributed to several of the above changes. Additionally, Attic Greek had /u/ > /y/, but Boeotian did not. However, Boeotian did resolve the diphthongs /aj/ and /ɔj/ to /ɛː/ and /œː/ respectively.

With that in mind, here is a rough list of sound changes from classical Boeotian to Weyötiss:
  • /mb/, /nd/, /ŋg/ become /m:/, /n:/, /ŋ:/ (but short /m/, /n/, /ŋ/ before a consonant.)
  • /b/ > /w/.
  • /ɡ/ > /h/.
  • /ɔ/ is lengthened in open syllables.
  • /eu/ > /œy/.
  • Umlaut of /a/ > /ɛ/, /ɔ/ > /œ/, /u/ > /y/ before /i/ or /Cj/. /au/ > /œy/. Notably, however, there is no umlaut before intervocalic /j/.
  • /s/ assimilates to a following liquid /r l m n/.
  • Unstressed vowels are shortened in closed syllables.
  • Shift of stress to the last long vowel, or, failing that, the antepenultimate syllable—however, stress only falls on the ultima if it also has high tone.
  • /uː/ becomes /um/ before a vowel.
  • /st(ʰ)/ > /sː/
  • /Clj/ > /Cj/
  • /j/ is lost after a consonant.
  • Epenthesis of /ɔ/ between a consonant and a following liquid.
  • /s/ lowers the tone of the preceding mora, causing a split in tones that is especially notable in substantive inflection.
  • Syncope of many short, unstressed vowels.
  • /s/ is lost word-finally after a vowel.
  • /d/ > /s/ > /sʰ/ (chain shift).
  • Assimilation of stop clusters, usually to the second element: *kepʰalā́ > *kpʰalā́ > *ppʰalā; kʰtʰṓn > ttʰṓn; pterón > ptrón > ttrón.
  • Breaking of /iː/ /uː/ to /ai/ /au/. /ej/ is also lowered to /aj/.
  • Raising of long /eː/ > /iː/, counterfeeding the previous change.
  • Loss of contrastive length.
  • Loss of final unstressed /a/.
Phonology
This produces the following phoneme inventory:

Code: Select all

Μ /m/	Ν /n/	Γ /ŋ/
Π /p/	Τ /t/	Κ /k/
Φ /pʰ/	Θ /tʰ/	Ψ /kʰ/
Ϝ /w/	Σ /s/	Η /h/
Λ /l/	Ρ /r/	Ͱ /j/

Ι /i/	Υ̨ /y/	Υ /u/
Ε /e/
Α̨ /ɛ/	Ο̨ /œ/	Ο /ɔ/
	Α /a/
Note that Ͱ is not Claudian, but rather an old letter meant as a graphical compromise between Ε and Ι. Note also that Ψ represents /kʰ/ rather than /ps/. Digraphs for /ks/ and /ps/ do not exist. Dipthongs are ΑΙ /ai/, ΑΥ /au/, ΕΥ/ΑΥ̨ /œy/. The ogonek, which functions as an umlaut, is an approximation of a tail-like diacritic which developed from a reduced form of ε.

Even in classical times, the Boeotian alphabet lacked /z/, and therefore lacked Ζ. As a consequence of this, the letter was never borrowed into Latin, and thus was never used in English. Greek loans of course would never have had /z/, but rather /dː/, so we would use e.g. doölogical or baptidded. Native words would probably be spelled with ⟨s⟩, as mase, rase. A more interesting question is what other languages would do—perhaps German would replace it with ⟨ts⟩, etc. I leave this as an exercise for the reader.

A more interesting problem is, however, Y. The letter was borrowed into Latin because the sound it represented, /y/, was unknown there. But since Υ represents /u/ in classical Boeotian, there would have been no need to borrow the letter, and therefore it would not exist in English or other languages. Again, Greek loans would have had /u/, so rhuthm, hupothesis. English final -y would probably be spelled with -ie instead: happie, quicklie, mie. Consonantal Y, on the other hand, competed in Middle English with ȝ (yogh), and so it is likely that yogh would take the place thereof in Modern English: ȝes, plaȝ, ȝellow.

Note also that many Greek-derived words would also be different: damocrocie (democracy), mettoderm (mesoderm), diontology (deontology), voeconomie (economy), Artamis (Artemis).


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

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Re: Modern Greek

Post by KathTheDragon »

ObsequiousNewt wrote:Consonantal Y, on the other hand, competed in Middle English with ȝ (yogh), and so it is likely that yogh would take the place thereof in Modern English: ȝes, plaȝ, ȝellow.
A consequence is that thorn would be retained, since it was ousted by Y.

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Re: Modern Greek

Post by hwhatting »

So the idea is that, besides the different standard for Greek and Alphabet coventions, there would be no changes and butterflies? For example, we would just have a Theban Socrates and Platon, academy , etc.; Alexander, Hellenism, the Roman Empire, Christianity playing out exactly the same, just spelled in a different way?

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Re: Modern Greek

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Many important figures were not born, but rather moved, to Athens. Aristotle was born in Stagira, in Chalcidice. Plato and Socrates are harder, especially since Plato was born to a prestigious family. Of course, I don't know nearly enough about philosophy to even begin to speculate on what would happen if the situation were to change, so I am willing to invent a Theban Plato—call him Varaeo—and say that Socrates moved to Thebes.

Any other changes I similarly cannot predict, but I would be interested to hear your thoughts, if you have any.


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

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Re: Modern Greek

Post by hwhatting »

Well, the point is, of course, that changes build on each other, so when we arrive at the modern world, it might not be recognisable to us. But that seems not to be what you're aiming for. So we'd have to look at what changes would be inevitable and whether it's possible to keep the main develpments. Unfortunately, I don't have the ime for that right now...

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Re: Modern Greek

Post by mèþru »

From what I understand, Socrates was involved to some extent in Athenian politics and felt some sense of loyalty to the people of Athens. I doubt that he would move. However, that does not prevent a Theban from hearing of his ideas and applying them in Thebes.
About butterflies, the only way to avoid them is to take a chapter from Ill Bethisad - if something is extremely unlikely but still justifiable and suits your goals, than to hell with reason and historical accuracy. Romance speaking Welsh colonists flying their airship squadrons in a war against the Florida-Caribbean empire sounds too awesome for things like reality. It is, after all, not a history book. It is a story, and you decide how that works. If historical accuracy is important, then the whole premise is stupid. If it isn't, then do whatever you want. If maintaining the pretense of being historically accurate while flatly contradicting it is what you want (which is basically what all alternate historians, even the "hard" ones do), then what you need is what Ill Bethisad calls "points of convergence." These are PODs within the main POD that make the world more like ours - a divergence from diverging.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
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Re: Modern Greek

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Inflection

Weyötiss retains the cases and numbers of Classical Boeotian, with the exception of the vocative, but no longer marks the distinction on the noun. Only the article, and adjectives which were originally oxytone, decline. Additionally, due to the tone split and subsequent loss of final /s/, many cases are simply marked with a difference in tone. None of the diacritics I was going to use display properly, so I'm just going to use tone letters:

Code: Select all

            Masc                 Fem                  Neut
       S     D     P        S     D     P        S     D     P
Nom   -ο1   -ο4   -ο̨3      -α4   -α4   -α̨3      -ον3  -ο4   -α3
Gen   -ο2   -ο̨ν2  -ον2     -α5   -α̨ν2  -αν2     -ο2   -ο̨ν2  -ον2
Dat   -ο̨2   -ο̨ν2  -ο̨5      -α̨2   -α̨ν2  -α̨5      -ο̨2   -ο̨ν2  -ο̨5
Acc   -ον3  -ο4   -ο       -αν4  -α4   -α       -ον3  -ο4   -α3
The article differs slightly, in that the nominative singular is not το1, τα4, τον3, but rather ο, α, το3 (and thus the neuter accusative singular is also το3).

Adjectives which were not originally oxytone only mark gender: κυπς (kups), κυφ (kupʰ), κυφον (kupʰon) 'nimble'. Most such adjectives are compounds: ϝο̨κονομς (wökonoms), ϝο̨κονομ (wökonom), ϝο̨κονομον (wökonomon) 'house-managing'.

Verbal inflection has changed significantly. The old imperfect, pluperfect, passive, subjunctive, and participle have all been lost. The basic verbal paradigm for a strong verb [and by extension most verbs] is shown below:
Strong

Code: Select all

             1S       2S       3S       Dual       1P         2P        3P
Pres   Ind   λαιπο    λαιπς    λαιπι    λαιπτον    λαιμμιν    λαιπτ     λαιπο̨νθ
       Opt   λαιπο̨μ   λαιπο̨ς   λαιπο̨    λαιπο̨τον   λαιπο̨μιν   λαιπο̨τ    λαιπο̨ιν
       Imp            λαιπ     λαιπτο   λαιπτον               λαιπτ     λαιπονθο
Fut    Ind   λαιπσο   λαιπς    λαιπσι   λαιπστον   λαιπσμιν   λαιπστ    λαιπσο̨νθ
       Opt   λαιπσο̨μ  λαιπσο̨ς  λαιπσο̨   λαιπσο̨τον  λαιπσο̨μιν  λαιπσο̨τ   λαιπσο̨ιν
       Imp            λαιπς    λαιπστο  λαιπστον              λαιπστ    λαιπσονθο
Aor    Ind   ελιπ     ελιπς    ελιπ     ελιπτον    ελιμμιν    ελιπτ     ελιπον
       Opt   λιπα̨μ    λιπα̨ς    λιπα̨     λιπα̨τον    λιπα̨μιν    λιπα̨τ     λιπα̨ιν
       Imp            λιπ      λιπτο    λιπτον                λιπτ      λιπανθο
Perf   Ind   λελο̨π    λελο̨πς   λελο̨π    λελο̨πτον   λελο̨μμιν   λελο̨πτ    λελο̨πον
       Opt   λελο̨πο̨μ  λελο̨πο̨ς  λελο̨πο̨   λελο̨πο̨τον  λελο̨πο̨μιν  λελο̨πο̨τ   λελο̨πο̨ιν
       Imp            λελο̨π    λελο̨πτο  λελο̨πτον              λελο̨πτ    λελο̨πονθο
Vowel-stem verbs use most of the same endings, but form the tenses differently:
Vowel-stem

Code: Select all

             1S        2S        3S        Dual        1P          2P         3P
Pres   Ind   πα̨σευο    πα̨σευς    πα̨σευι    πα̨σευτον    πα̨σευμιν    πα̨σευτ     πα̨σευο̨νθ
       Opt   πα̨σευο̨μ   πα̨σευο̨ς   πα̨σευο̨    πα̨σευο̨τον   πα̨σευο̨μιν   πα̨σευο̨τ    πα̨σευο̨ιν
       Imp             πα̨σευ     πα̨σευτο   πα̨σευτον                πα̨σευτ     πα̨σευονθο
Fut    Ind   πα̨σευσηο  πα̨σευς    πα̨σευσηι  πα̨σευστον   πα̨σευσημιν  πα̨σευστ    πα̨σευσηο̨νθ
       Opt   πα̨σευσηο̨μ πα̨σευσηο̨ς πα̨σευσηο̨  πα̨σευσηο̨τον πα̨σευσηο̨μιν πα̨σευσηο̨τ  πα̨σευσηο̨ιν
       Imp             πα̨σευς    πα̨σευστο  πα̨σευστον               πα̨σευστ    πα̨σευσηονθο
Aor    Ind   επα̨σευς   επα̨σευς   επα̨σευσ   επα̨σευστον  επα̨σευσημιν επα̨σευστ   επα̨σευσηον
       Opt   πα̨σευσηα̨μ πα̨σευσηα̨ς πα̨σευσηα̨  πα̨σευσηα̨τον πα̨σευσηα̨μιν πα̨σευσηα̨τ  πα̨σευσηα̨ιν
       Imp             πα̨σευς    πα̨σευστο  πα̨σευστον               πα̨σευστ    πα̨σευσηανθο
Perf   Ind   πεπα̨σευκ  πεπα̨σευκς πεπα̨σευκ  πεπα̨σευκτον πεπα̨σευκμιν πεπα̨σευκτ  πεπα̨σευκον
       Opt   πεπα̨σευο̨μ πεπα̨σευο̨ς πεπα̨σευο̨  πεπα̨σευο̨τον πεπα̨σευο̨μιν πεπα̨σευο̨τ  πεπα̨σευο̨ιν
       Imp             πεπα̨σευ   πεπα̨σευτο πεπα̨σευτον              πεπα̨σευτ   πεπα̨σευονθο
Weak verbs conjugate as strong verbs, but do not ablaut: καυπτο, καυπσο, εκαυπς, κεκαυφ 'stoop'; φυλακτο, φυλακσο, εφυλακς, πεφυλακ 'watch, guard'. The perfect uses the bare stem; the future and aorist add -σ-; the present adds -τ-.

Vowel verbs add -ση- in the future and aorist, and -κ- in the perfect indicative.

α-Contract verbs are a special class of vowel verbs that inflect slightly differently in the present:

Code: Select all

Pres   Ind   ταιμο    ταιμς    ταιμα̨    ταιμετον   ταιμομιν   ταιμετ    ταιμο̨νθ
       Opt   ταιμο̨μ   ταιμο̨ς   ταιμο̨    ταιμο̨τον   ταιμο̨μιν   ταιμο̨τ    ταιμο̨ιν
       Imp            ταιμε    ταιμετο  ταιμετον              ταιμετ    ταιμονθο
The other tenses are ταιμασηο, εταιμας, τεταιμακ.
ι-contract verbs conjugate like strong or weak verbs, as the ι of the other tenses becomes umlaut in the present: σο̨ρο, σορισηο, εσορις, σεσορικ 'offer'.
The infinitive of any tense is formed by adding -μιν. The infintive of α-contract verbs is formed by adding -εμιν.

[Next: Morphosyntax]


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

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Re: Modern Greek

Post by Arzena »

ObsequiousNewt wrote:Modern Greek
zbb wrote:Conlangery & Conworlds
I totally can believe that Modern Greek is a cleverly disguised conlang
A New Yorker wrote:Isn't it sort of a relief to talk about the English Premier League instead of the sad state of publishing?
Abi wrote:At this point it seems pretty apparent that PIE was simply an ancient esperanto gone awry.
Shtåså, Empotle7á, Neire Wippwo

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Re: Modern Greek

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Morphosyntax

Modern Weyötiss distinguishes roughly six TAMs. The former present has narrowed to a 'conative', which is used to imply attempt or intention:
Πφε
3PL.NOM
τε
2SG.ACC
παιθο̨ντ
persuade.PRES-3PL
ηα̨μεμιν
marry-PRES-INF
ϝηε!
3SG.ACC

They're trying to persuade you to marry her!

Ιογ
1SG.NOM
καθευσο.
fall.asleep.PRES-1SG

I'm going to try and take a nap.

The general present is formed using a paraphrasis of the irregular verb τιθμιν (from τίθεμεν, originally meaning to do) and a verbal noun. The form of the verbal noun varies—with strong verbs, it is usually the o-grade plus -α; with weak verbs, a derivative in -ς with umlaut (from -σις), and with contract verbs, either the noun from which the verb is derived, or sometimes an umlauted form (from -ία.)

Ϝηε
3SG.NOM
ηουσα
sleep
τθιτ.
do.3SG

He's sleeping.

However, this is mostly only used in independent clauses. The bare present is used in most dependent clauses (when it is not replaced by the predicate clause):

Τικ
if
τε
2SG.ACC
αυτ
this-N
αμμενισσι,
please.PRES-3SG
ιον
1SG.NOM
τον
M-ACC.SG
ηαμςτο
marriage-2SG
α̨τ
request
τθαιιν
do.OPT-1SG
τε
2SG.ACC
επ
on
εμε.
1SG.ACC

If it pleases you, I would ask for your hand in marriage.

It is also used for some impersonal verbs:

Υ̨μι.
rain-3SG

It's raining.

And for imperatives:

Θεος
God
,
σα̨νισς
lend
ταν
your-F-ACC.SG
ϝικψυ
strength
εμο̨
1SG.DAT
τθο
as
ιογ
1SG.NOM
εμο
my-M-ACC.PL
σαͱς
enemy
τθαιρο.
destroy.PRES-1SG

God, lend me your strength as I destroy my enemies.

The future is used to refer to future events which does not imply intention or effort:

Το
N-NOM.SG
ηα̨μ
blood
το
N-ACC.SG
κινον
that
αμαρ
day
ρευσι.
flow-FUT-3SG

Blood will flow on that day.

The aorist has become a gnomic aspect:

Ο
M-NOM.SG
ορανς
heaven
τα
N-ACC.PL
ανα̨ριθομον
un-numbered-N
ϝερρον
thing
εͱεν
give-AOR-3SG
ανθροποτροφον.
man-nurturing-N

Heaven brings forth innumerable things to nurture man.

But the periphrastic aorist has become a perfect:

Συννομαμο̨,
pardon-1SG.DAT
τα
F-PL.ACC
πανανα
banana
αυπο
not.yet
ινσηολα
in-shipping
εθον
do.AOR-3PL
πφε.
3PL.NOM

I'm sorry, the bananas haven't been shipped in yet.

The perfect, by contrast, has become a general preterite:

Το
N-NOM.SG
σενρον
tree
εμο̨
1SG.DAT
εϝεϝολ,
threaten.PERF-3SG
ιογ
1SG.NOM
ηαι
then
πεφλοͱ
set-on-fire.PERF-1SG
ϝηε.
3SG.ACC

The tree threatened me, so I set it on fire.

The conjugation of τθιμ 'do' is as follows:

Code: Select all

Pres   Ind   τθιμ     τιτς     τθιτ     τιττον     τιθμιν     τιττ      τιθινθ
       Opt   τθαιιν   τθαις    τθαιε    τθαιτον    τθαιμιν    τθαιτ     τθαιιν
       Imp            τιθε     τιττο    τιττον                τιττ      τιθινθο
Aor    Ind   εθικ     εθικς    εθικ     εττον      εθμιν      εττε      εθον
       Opt   θαιιν    θαις     θαιε     θαιτον     θαιμιν     θαιτ      θαιιν
       Imp            θε       θετο     θετον                 θετ       θενθο
Last edited by ObsequiousNewt on Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

Lambuzhao
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Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: Modern Greek

Post by Lambuzhao »

I am taking it in, reading and re-reading.

On the whole, I have one word to say - ΚϒΔΟΣ !
The general present is formed using a paraphrasis of the irregular verb τιθμιν (from τίθεμεν, originally meaning to do) and a verbal noun. The form of the verbal noun varies—with strong verbs, it is usually the o-grade plus -α; with weak verbs, a derivative in -ς with umlaut (from -σις), and with contract verbs, either the noun from which the verb is derived, or sometimes an umlauted form (from -ία.)
I was not liking this part of your verbs, but then it hit me. This... this reminds me A LOT of what happened from Middle Egyptian :> Coptic, where the verb jari 'to make, to do' became the de facto conjugated coverb ЄІРЄ/ЄР/АРІ in Coptic, while the main verb is some kind of infinitival/nominal form in periphrasis (I think you meant that above, instead of paraphrasis). Interesting; it's like Ptolemaic Egypt somehow influenced this enclave of Boeotian Greeks (!). It would make some sense, since the Ionian sphere had some pretty far-flung colonies around the Aegean. I don't know if this was an influence on how you crafted your verb conjugation, but :-D

ΚϒΔΟΣ again for pushing a highly flexible and underrated basolect like Greek (Boeotian Dialect, no less) to new horizons in your corner of the glossopoetic palaestra.

Actually, here's another word i'd like to say (in Old Boeotian, no less) -

ΠΛΙΟΝ!
much<COMPAR>N.NOM
More!

:)

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ObsequiousNewt
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Re: Modern Greek

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Weyötiss has several notable grammatical features to be noted. At first glance, it appears to be SOV:

Α
ART.F-NOM.SG
εμο
my-M-NOM.SG
ττερ
father
πα̨τορ
native-F
λοττ
language
α
ART.F-NOM.SG
Α̨γλικα
English
σηα̨τ.
be.3SG
Ιογ
1SG.NOM
ηϝε
3SG.ACC
σηυνικ
understand-1SG
κα̨
and
ικ.
send

My father's native language is English. I can understand and speak it.

However, the object may be freely replaced with an adverb or adverbial phrase of higher valence:

Ο
ART.M-NOM.SG
Θεος
LORD
κατ
from
τα
ART.F-GEN.SG
ορψα
beginning
προκεκελευκ
order-PRET-3SG
ιν
INDEF-F-ACC
ηαͱ
earth
κκα̨
and.also
το
ART.M-ACC.PL
μακρο
large-M-ACC.PL
λαμπτο
fried-M-ACC.PL
κομπιρ.
potato

In the beginning, God ordered an Earth and large fries.

Note that the object does not precede the verb, but rather follows it, so the word order may more accurately be described as subject-focus-verb-remainder.

Having lost the passive, Weyötiss instead relies on topic-fronting to decrease valency:

Μο̨
1SG.DAT
σηυγγομα,
pardon
τα
ART.F-ACC.PL
πανανα
banana
αυπο
not-yet
ινσηολα
in-shipping
εθον
do.AOR-3PL
πφε.
3PL.NOM

I'm sorry, the bananas haven't been shipped in yet.

Note that ινσηολα is not treated like a noun, but rather is an inseparable element of the verb phrase ινσηολα εθον.

Omission of subject pronouns may be seen as antiquated, or (in the dialects of central Attica and Euboea) slang speech. Elision of πφε in the sentence above is not only common in said dialects, but is seen in Boeotian and Peloponnesian colloquial speech as well.

Impersonals, by contrast, never take a subject:

Ναιφι.
snow-PRES-3SG

It's snowing.

All questions are marked with the interrogative particle αρ, which stands first in the sentence:

Αρ
INT
τι
who
συνα̨
can-3SG
φαμιν
say-INF
ηοπαι
where-REL
ο
ART.M-NOM.SG
ηοσς
road
εϝαν;
go-GNOM-3SG

Who can say where the road goes?

Αρ
INT
τυ
2SG-NOM
επ
in
ταν
ART.F-ACC.SG
πο̨λςκι
city-this
ηονα
being-born
εθικς;
do.AOR-2SG

Were you born in this city?

Note however that questions using adverbs place the adverbs at the beginning of the sentence, before the subject:

Αρ
InT
τι
why
α
ART.F-NOM.SG
λα̨τιρ
driver-F
μα̨
not
παυ̨σς
stopping
τθιτ
do.PRES-3SG
τον
ART.M-ACC.SG
αυτοκαινιτς;
car

Why isn't the driver stopping the car?

The imperative acts like a normal sentence, but with the subject effectively dropped:
Αθο
good
ηισσηε
be.IMP.2SG
,
τα
thy.F-ACC.SG
αυτο
cow-2SG
πο̨ϝ
make-IMP.2SG
απεκ
out-of
μο
my-M-GEN.SG
ηοσς.
way

Please get your cow out of my way.

(Note that the article is effectively identical to the second person possessive, so the clitic -το, which marks the second person, is often added. In central Greece (and especially Attic) this usage has spread to the other personal clitics -μο and -ϝηο.)

However, in the Arcadian and Boeotian dialects, the imperative comes first, such that the above sentences would be translated as Αθο ηισσηε, πο̨ϝ τα αυτο απεκ μο ηοσς.

It is also possible to use subjects with the imperative, although this usage is somewhat antiquated:

Τον
thy.N-NOM.SG
ϝα̨σηιλιϝιον
kingdom
ερχ.
come-IMP.3SG

Thy kingdom come.

There are two ways to attach adjectives to nouns in Weyötiss. The former is simply placing the adjective between the noun and article, as above: ο σηοφο νερ the wise man. The second is placing the adjective after the noun, and repeating the article, and has the effect of shifting focus slightly onto the noun: ο νερ ο σηοφο the man who is wise. One must be careful not to omit the second article in this construction, as doing so causes the sentence to have an entirely different meaning (see "Predicate clauses" below.)

Genitives work in a similar manner: α το πα̨ς ματερ the child's mother, α ματερ α το πα̨ς the mother of the child. The latter construction is more common in colloquial Weyötiss, and the second (genitive-marking) article is often dropped, e.g. α ματερ α πα̨ς.

In both cases, an important thing to note is that the second construction is effectively treated as two noun phrases for the purpose of word order, so while Ιογ τον σηοφον νερ ϝεϝορακ. is a correct translation of "I saw the wise man", **Ιογ τον νερ τον σηοφον ϝεϝορακ. is incorrect and must be replaced with Ιογ τον νερ ϝεϝορακ τον σηοφον. Similarly, Ιογ ταν ματερ ϝεϝορακ ταν το πα̨ς.

PREDICATE CLAUSES

One of the most unique and pervasive features of Weyötiss is the <predicate clause>, or predicate clause. A predicate clause consists of an adjective placed after a noun, without an interposing article, and implies intent, purpose, or effect, and is thus often translated with the English infinitive of purpose. While it can be used with a simple adjective, it is most often used with an exocentric compound, a highly productive class of words retained from Ancient Greek. Take the following sentence:

Ιογ
1SG.NOM
τα
thy-F-GEN.SG
αϝανα̨κο̨χτο
not-wife-having-2SG
κατηελς
at-laughing
τθιμ
do-PRES-1SG
τυ
2SG.NOM
σηαιτοποπς.
food-cooking-M

I am laughing at your not having a wife, as a result you are the one cooking your own food.

The most direct translation of this sentence would be I am laughing at your not-wife-having (α-ϝανα̨κ-ο̨χ) , [such that] you [are] food-cooking. This is a slightly less than prototypical construction—the predicate clause is not an effect of the laughing, but rather of an embedded verbal noun.

The adjective in a predicate clause can also refer to a noun used elsewhere in the sentence:

Το̨
ART.M-NOM.PL
ανθροπς
man
αυ̨τ
nothing
εκψον
have.GNOM-3PL
το
ART.N-ACC.SG
επ
on
αθο̨
good-M-DAT.SG
οραναμο̨ϝον.
heaven-exchanging-N

Man has nothing good with which to recompense Heaven. (lit. "Men have nothing on good [to be] Heaven-recompensing.")

In the above sentence the predicate clause agrees with αυ̨τ "nothing".

This section should probably be expanded.


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

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