I need some help understanding kinship terminology.

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StrangerCoug
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I need some help understanding kinship terminology.

Post by StrangerCoug »

I have a conculture that's both matrilineal and matrilocal (in fact, it conflates the two concepts) and uses the Crow kinship system. I can wrap my head around the chart as presented; the main source of confusion I have comes from trying to extend it.

Here are my two major questions:
  1. I have different words for a brother's children and a sister's children. Tentatively, ego's children are called by the same terms as the children of the same-sex sibling. Is this a reasonable setup?
  2. The article says ego's father's matrilineage is differentiated only by sex. What about ego's father's patrilineage? Would it also be lumped together?
In addition, are there any other resources I can use that talks about the Crow kinship system further that can help me clear up terminology?
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Re: I need some help understanding kinship terminology.

Post by Frislander »

StrangerCoug wrote:I have a conculture that's both matrilineal and matrilocal (in fact, it conflates the two concepts) and uses the Crow kinship system. I can wrap my head around the chart as presented; the main source of confusion I have comes from trying to extend it.

Here are my two major questions:
  1. I have different words for a brother's children and a sister's children. Tentatively, ego's children are called by the same terms as the children of the same-sex sibling. Is this a reasonable setup?
  2. The article says ego's father's matrilineage is differentiated only by sex. What about ego's father's patrilineage? Would it also be lumped together?
In addition, are there any other resources I can use that talks about the Crow kinship system further that can help me clear up terminology?
I don't know about the first one: it seems reasonable, but unfortunately most discussions of kinship systems don't consider generations beyond the ego's and their parents. EDIT: there is a precedent: here are the Akan kin terms.

As for the second one, I'd think not. The reason for the lumping is partly because any inheriting is done through the mother's line: therefore the father's matrilineage is lumped because for the purposes of inheritance they don't matter: you're not going to inherit anything from them. In this sense you might as well not be related to them. The patrilineage will not be so lumped because of the siblings of the same gender getting the same reference terms.
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Re: I need some help understanding kinship terminology.

Post by StrangerCoug »

Frislander wrote:EDIT: there is a precedent: here are the Akan kin terms.
That helps. Thanks.
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Re: I need some help understanding kinship terminology.

Post by StrangerCoug »

OK, here's what I have. The conculture is called the Baxaino, and they speak Old Baxaidžes for right now. The abbreviations are taken from here and supplemented as follows:
  1. My system needs to differentiate between a male and a female ego; I use Em and Ef here respectively at the expense of introducing case sensitivity.
  2. The asterisk should be interpreted as a Kleene star: the preceding character can appear any number of times from zero to infinity.
Image
I'm still thinking of words for husband and wife. Conservative Baxaino thought is supposed to align with our Western ideas and condemn sex with anyone other than your actual spouse adulterous. A clan leader MAY, depending on time and place, allow a man to have sex with his wife's sister—there isn't supposed to be any hard and fast rule about this other than the leaders' opinions about morality. Sex and marriage within the clan is considered incestuous and illegal (you always belong to your mother's clan).

As the Baxaino are organized into clans, not families, the nuclear family as our Western culture understands it is generally not recognized, but there's a way to differentiate between lineal and collateral relatives if it's necessary: For a lineal relative, prefix the kinship word given with /paj/; for a collateral relative, prefix it instead with /ɣɛb/. (I'm considering giving them literal meanings of "birth" and "side" respectively). What we think of as our mother, then, is specifically our /pajθiŋɡa/ pajthingga, and her sister is our /ɣɛbθinga/ ghèbthingga.

What do you think?

Edited to add: I just realized that the words for "father" and "uncle" both end in ko. Maybe treat dzako and ghòtko as compounds and assign individual meanings to dza, ghòt, and ko? (Sorry, their language and culture are still being worked on.
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Re: I need some help understanding kinship terminology.

Post by Zaarin »

Frislander wrote:
StrangerCoug wrote:I have a conculture that's both matrilineal and matrilocal (in fact, it conflates the two concepts) and uses the Crow kinship system. I can wrap my head around the chart as presented; the main source of confusion I have comes from trying to extend it.

Here are my two major questions:
  1. I have different words for a brother's children and a sister's children. Tentatively, ego's children are called by the same terms as the children of the same-sex sibling. Is this a reasonable setup?
  2. The article says ego's father's matrilineage is differentiated only by sex. What about ego's father's patrilineage? Would it also be lumped together?
In addition, are there any other resources I can use that talks about the Crow kinship system further that can help me clear up terminology?
I don't know about the first one: it seems reasonable, but unfortunately most discussions of kinship systems don't consider generations beyond the ego's and their parents. EDIT: there is a precedent: here are the Akan kin terms.

As for the second one, I'd think not. The reason for the lumping is partly because any inheriting is done through the mother's line: therefore the father's matrilineage is lumped because for the purposes of inheritance they don't matter: you're not going to inherit anything from them. In this sense you might as well not be related to them. The patrilineage will not be so lumped because of the siblings of the same gender getting the same reference terms.
To add to this, depending on social customs of course, there's a decently good chance that your father's patriline is your matriline, especially if moieties are involved.
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Re: I need some help understanding kinship terminology.

Post by vec »

Here's one related question that I haven't found satisfyingly answered.

Under Iroquois systems, are there special terms for "real father" and "real mother" or is the family arrangement such that that becomes irrelevant? How does ego's paternal uncle being considered your father work in practice? And does the way that works differ from how your maternal aunt's being considered your mother? Are these societies sex segregated? What is the concern about direct passing of genes/bloodlines?
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Re: I need some help understanding kinship terminology.

Post by StrangerCoug »

Zaarin wrote:To add to this, depending on social customs of course, there's a decently good chance that your father's patriline is your matriline, especially if moieties are involved.
I... THINK I see it if you marry your dat or tsap in this system, yes? Is that what you're talking about?
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Re: I need some help understanding kinship terminology.

Post by Zaarin »

vec wrote:Here's one related question that I haven't found satisfyingly answered.

Under Iroquois systems, are there special terms for "real father" and "real mother" or is the family arrangement such that that becomes irrelevant? How does ego's paternal uncle being considered your father work in practice? And does the way that works differ from how your maternal aunt's being considered your mother? Are these societies sex segregated? What is the concern about direct passing of genes/bloodlines?
From what I understand, one's relationship with one's true parents will be different, but the terminology is not. Also it's worth noting that in an Iroquoian or Crow system society, one's maternal uncle will usually fill the social role of "real father"--depending on the society, the real father may either not be in the picture or else be more of a "buddy" than the role one associates with "father." One's grandfather (who will be the same moiety, regardless of matriline) may also take on a father-like role.

Concerning sex segregation, among the Tlingit (Crow kinship) one is not allowed to speak to adults of the opposite sex in one's matriline or within one's moiety--but are allowed to speak to those of the opposite sex in one's patriline or of the opposite moiety. I've observed many societies that practice Crow or Iroquois kinship have moieties, which ensures that you "alternate generations" so to speak--but still the underlying principle of such cultures is to keep property "in the family."
StrangerCoug wrote:
Zaarin wrote:To add to this, depending on social customs of course, there's a decently good chance that your father's patriline is your matriline, especially if moieties are involved.
I... THINK I see it if you marry your dat or tsap in this system, yes? Is that what you're talking about?
Yes. Among the Tlingit, it's typical (at least among chiefly families) for two families to alternate generations in arranged marriages--so if a man from Raven clan A marries a woman from Eagle clan B, then their son of their son (a Raven) will marry again into Eagle clan B. Honestly, the Crow kinship system seriously makes my head hurt, even after reading a highly detailed study of how it works with the Tlingit. :(
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