Djanardak

Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
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Esjokka
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Djanardak

Post by Esjokka »

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Last edited by Esjokka on Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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HerljosScheindorf
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Re: Djanardak

Post by HerljosScheindorf »

It sounds pleasant to hear.

In mine, Xerossu, OSV language, it's :
Article 1. All human beings are born and remain equal in dignity and rights.
[Einaki] [ūhwa] - [tze eki] [ragnæt] [het] [aßufa] [heptk] [le] [basǩwāruk] [yabit]
[One-this] [truth/knowledge] - [equal] [power/possible actions] [and] [can own respect] [permanently tied together] [plural] [human] [birth as verb]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1d3CWXRm74F
Last edited by HerljosScheindorf on Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Scheindorf Herljos of the Ereissu-Nifh Keshtri from Nǩakarak

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Frislander
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Re: Djanardak

Post by Frislander »

Esjokka wrote:The orthography is modeled on Central European languages such as Hungarian but is very simple and logical. Instead of using the umlaut, I took the Vietnamese hooks.
Please don't use "logical" in this context. For example, the choice you made to use the hooks and not the diaereses, for instance, is essentially arbitrary: no logic involved at all. Also, could we actually see the system? What do said Vietnamese hooks represent for instance?
Esjokka wrote:The phonology was designed to be familiar to speakers of all languages. There are no crazy phonemes, but rather phonemes that many languages share.
Again that's fine, but could we please see the phonology?

By the way, when you say "phonemes that many languages share" do you mean from a worldwide perspective or from a Eurasian perspective?
Esjokka wrote:The syntax and morphology is inspired by agglutinative SOV languages such as Japanese, Turkish, and Mongolian. Consequently, words can get long.
OK, but when do we get to see how this actually works?
Esjokka wrote:Sample Texts
UDHR Article 1
Tutta ensỏrlesiq vor ja anly ỏrdelekti ja sjulaktyne engirim. Azym bunúnamdy ja temberỏdủlam esmandok, ja sjékkilde ruvadynne tjettirdiestum toloknar vadarym.

Audio recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwRRXY0wTBo

Tower of Babel
1. Esora tutta arathura jom heligi ja jamasj anysy lekirden.
2. Kene gol rastyze vajagyrdan, azym Sjinarda arattyne gersjeni zủvủrden ja sjolykka tjatyrdan.
3. Azym tjettirdies qulurdan, “sỏdỏrtủ vesenej ja azymy tuttjyl havaznaj.” Ja azym sỏdỏrtủnủ esjtendihan ja tíri asmandyhan lekirden.
4. Ynta azym qulurdan, “Ven, demdihan kuvasyn ja tjonu ester ustorkeli slamarak prazyn pesnej, ja demirdihan sajmanyn vesenej; sanoja dem tutta arathurada ủrủdủtrasa lủende.”
5. Djak rabba tjo ravalda vile peserden kuvasy ja prazy lerener sudaġardan.
6. Rabba qulurdan, “gol jomlok gytyrym ja azym jom helik lekirim, ja onlok haġot tjonu azym ekirek hatlym gytyrym; esora nendje tjo azym ekner otmasjym azymdyhan vijedỏlmek.”
7. “Venez, azymda heligi sudaġa ja mizbiliknej, hantjo azym tjettirde heligemi jaravnar vijelemesjek.”
8. Kesỏe rabba azymy tutta arathurada ủrủdủtrasa sjolykkadyze atta lủenủrden, ja azym kuvasta pesisji jaġardan.
9. Dekesỏe, tuda sajma Babelỏ gytyrdan, hỏz sjolykka rabba tutta arathurada heligi mizbiligirden. Sjolykkadyze azymy atta tutta arathurada ủrủdủtrasa lủenủrden.

Audio recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsNSsIDV6uw
I do like that look (though it does seem to bear a rather uncanny resemblance to Turkish), but could you do an interlinear gloss so that we can actually see what's going on?
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mèþru
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Re: Djanardak

Post by mèþru »

Welcome to the ZBB! Have some pickles and tea! (It's a board tradition for welcoming new members).
ImageImage
I agree with all of Frislander's criticism, and I also add this:
very simple
All languages can be claimed to be simple, but what feature seems simple could often be arbitrary. For example, many deride case markings as complications, but in order to do away with case markings, one must make complex syntactical systems. Complexity cannot be avoided.

In addition to wanting to see more of Djanardak, I'd also be interested in seeing Ghulghadian and other conlangs you made.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
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mèþru
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Re: Djanardak

Post by mèþru »

Now that I think about, unless if you are going for a Vietnamese feel, hooks are actually illogical: very few can recognise their meaning, as they are not used outside Vietnamese. The umlaut and hooks also have completely different functions: the umlaut's normal usage is to indicate a front rounded vowel phoneme by modifying a letter representing a back vowel. The hook above is used to indicate the "mid falling" tone of Vietnamese, which is realised differently depending on the dialect.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
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Frislander
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Re: Djanardak

Post by Frislander »

mèþru wrote:Welcome to the ZBB! Have some pickles and tea! (It's a board tradition for welcoming new members).
ImageImage
How impolite of me to forget the welcoming tea and gherkins! I apologise profusely!
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Esjokka
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Re: Djanardak

Post by Esjokka »

Hi all. Thanks for the criticism. I won't say that I wasn't a teensie bit offended, but your words are somewhat correct. I completely understand the use of the hook in Vietnamese to mark tone, as I am actually Vietnamese myself. Djanardak originally used ö and the ü which represent a front rounded vowel, but yes, I arbitrarily appropriated the hook from Vietnamese because I thought it looked nice and got tired of the diaeresis. Perhaps instead of using the word logical, I should have said the orthography is completely phonetic. I'll post the phonology soon.

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mèþru
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Re: Djanardak

Post by mèþru »

Thank you for accepting the criticism. I'm sorry that you find it a little offensive. One important thing you must keep in mind is that, even though they are represented by the same symbol, the diaeresis and umlaut are different things. The diaeresis is used to indicate two vowels in hiatus. When referring to the symbol in general, I use the term diaeresis, but I don't know whether this is the standard convention. Umlaut can also refer to a type of sound change:
Wikipedia wrote:In linguistics, umlaut (from German "sound alteration") is a sound change in which a vowel is pronounced more like a following vowel or semivowel. The term umlaut was originally coined in connection with the study of the Germanic languages in which the process occurred prominently in the history of many of them (see Germanic umlaut). While the common English plural is umlauts, the correct German plural is Umlaute.

Umlaut is a form of assimilation, the process by which one speech sound is altered to make it more like another adjacent sound. If a word has two vowels, one far back in the mouth and the other far forward, more effort is required to pronounce the word than if the vowels were closer together. Thus, one possible linguistic development is for these two vowels to be drawn closer together.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
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