[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 379: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 379: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4752: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4754: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4755: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4756: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
zompist bboard • View topic - dhoklang scratchthread (NP: Ephemerum Algonquianum)

zompist bboard

THIS IS AN ARCHIVE ONLY - see Ephemera
It is currently Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:40 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:45 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm
Posts: 859
Location: The Eastern Establishment
Turns out my old Algonquian-language scratchpad got pruned, and I was going to work on Nahtak again at some point. So, here's another thread.

Rebooted Kansan Algonquian list of sound changes, not very well organized, but good enough to get something resembling a clearer picture:

- Vowels are lengthened before *hC, shortened before *ʔC (and *xC). *h and *ʔ (and *x, which was probably *ʔ anyways) then drop before a consonant. *nC and *θC become hC; *š and *r become /s/ before another consonant (always *p or *k). Additionally, a short open second syllable (not followed by a true cluster, that is; semivowels don't count) is lengthened in words of more than two syllables.

- Vowel quantity is replaced with a six-vowel quality system after the aforementioned length changes. *ī becomes /i/; *ē and *ĭ become /e/; *ĕ becomes /æ/ (written ɛ because Menominee); *ō becomes /u/, and *ŏ becomes /o/. *ā fronts to /æ/ if not in an originally closed syllable; otherwise it, and *ă, become /a/.

- Postconsontantal semivowels contract with following vowels much of the time: *wa, *wā > o; *wē, *wi, *wī > u; *yē, *yi, *yī > i; *ya > ɛ, *yā > e.

- *t and *h become /ʔ/; *k is reflected as /h/ if not before an original *i, *ī, *y, where it becomes č. To close the gap, *θ becomes /t/. This means that Kansan Algonquian has no velars. Original *r is reflected as /n/.

- Final vowels are lost in words of more than two syllables, with loss of a preceding semivowel; in words of two syllables a final /ʔ/ is appended.

Some reflexes:

enéni 'person' < *irenyiwa
êhu 'woman' < *iθkwēwa
mâhoʔ 'bear' < *maθkwa
púsoʔ 'bobcat' < *pōswa
húniʔ 'snow' < *kōnyi
îhi 'blue jay' < *tīntīwa
ôhun 'his liver' < *oθkoni (and other possessed forms nɛ̂hun, hɛ̂hun, mɛ̂hun complete the paradigm)
hɛ́hɛce 'crow' < *kākākiwa
atém 'dog' < *aθemwa
pɛpún 'winter' < *pepōnwi
âhuh 'snake' < *aθkōka
músoʔ 'elk' < *mōswa
ɛ́mu 'bee' < *āmōwa
mínaʔ 'berry' < *mīna
ɛ́hem 'snowshoe' < ākema

More to come. In the dialect period, the first heavy syllable of a word gets a stress-accent; later, when clusters begin to collapse, heavy syllables got a glottal accent <ê> if they were followed by a cluster, but a non-glottal accent <é> if they weren't. In the case of no heavy syllables, stress falls on the second syllable; words with two light syllables stress, but do not lengthen, the second syllable; the rule actually says that words with two light syllables must have a glide beginning at least one of them. List of vocab updated.


Last edited by dhok on Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:24 am, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:27 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Posts: 838
Location: The North
That reminds me, I'm gonna look at my algolang again and play around a bit with the sound changes because I'm not happy with the results so far (you're right, removing all glides is a bit ridiculous).

Otherwise good work I think. Liking the no-velars thing and the six-vowel as well as the tonal stuff (perhaps I should try that? do you know how I might go about doing that?)

_________________


First known on here as Karero


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:50 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm
Posts: 859
Location: The Eastern Establishment
So, like every other Algonquian language, Kansalg divides nouns into animate and inanimate; all nouns may be singular or plural, and animate nouns may be proximate or obviative. Like Fox, but unlike pretty much everywhere else, obviative animate nouns maintain a number distinction.

In the rough draft (that got eaten), I presented a lot of inflection paradigms; both because I'm lazy and because the underlying system is basically the same for all nouns, I'm going to cut down a bit on the tables. The basic endings are:



'V' is the ending vowel. In the PA period, this was always *a- -*ari for animate obviative singulars and inanimate plurals, -*aki for animate proximate plurals, and -*ahi for animate obviative plurals. Two and a half millennia of vowel shifts and contraction with preceding semivowels mean that a number of different vowels may appear, but the principle remains that once you know the vowel and the gender, you can generate the whole paradigm.

In PA nouns with more than two syllables, the (proximate) singular will end in a consonant, which will be your stem. The link vowel may be:

[*]a, in words where the PA stem ended in a plain consonant or cluster. Examples include êsohem 'door' (PA *iškwāntēmi), with plural êsoheman.
[*]ɛ, in words where the stem ended in a consonant followed by *y. Examples include âsen 'stone' (PA *aʔsenya), with proximate plural âsenɛc.
[*]o, in words where the stem ended in a consonant followed by *w. Examples include atém 'dog' (PA *aθemwa), with proximate plural atémoc.

Additionally, there are some nouns whose stem ended in an intervocalic semivowel; this does not appear in the base form, but is restored when an ending is added. So Kansalg enéni 'person', from PA *irenyiwa, has a proximate plural enéniwac.

Nouns whose PA etymons were only two syllables long are a touch more complicated. First, their base forms ends in -ʔ, which is removed when an ending is added. Additionally, their original *-a or *-i was not dropped- it's the vowel before the glottal stop- but in many cases this vowel changes in the non-base forms, either because the PA ending-vowel -*a- contracts with a preceding semivowel, or because it underwent second-syllable lengthening- sometimes both are responsible. Luckily, it's predictable from the gender and base form how a noun will inflect:

[*]Animate nouns will end in -aʔ, -ɛʔ or -oʔ, with -ɛʔ deriving from an original *-Cya, and -oʔ from *-Cwa. Their plural proximates, respectively, end in -ɛc, -ec, and -oc.
[*]Inanimate nouns end in -eʔ, -iʔ (from *-Cyi), or -uʔ (*-Cwi). Their respective plurals end in -ɛn, -en and -on.

There is one additional note to make: inanimate nouns whose plural stems end in -t- or -ʔ- mutate this to -s- and -c-, respectively, in the singular. This derives from the PA palatalization of *t and *θ to *č and *š before *i, *ī or *y. For example, the noun úseʔ 'canoe' has a plural útɛn; this is a direct continuation of PA *ōši, whose stem *ōθ- reappears in the plural *ōθari.

For completion, paradigms of the animate nouns âhuh 'snake', mús 'elk', and mâhoʔ 'bear' are presented.


And some inanimate nouns:



That should do for now, at least. Later today I'll endeavor to write a short description of the possessive paradigm.


Last edited by dhok on Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:19 am, edited 7 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:55 am 
Sanci
Sanci
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 58
What is it about algonquian languages that's just so lovable?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:58 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm
Posts: 859
Location: The Eastern Establishment
Onto the possessive paradigm for nouns. We'll start with dependent nouns, which are obligatorily possessed and mostly comprise family members and body parts. There are four possessive prefixes, which each have three allomorphs:

- A first-person singular or first-person plural exclusive possessor takes the prefix nɛ-. Before a vowel, this is reflected as nɛʔ-, except before some dependent nouns whose stems begin in i, where it's simply n-.

- A second-person singular, first-person inclusive, or second-person plural possessor takes the prefix hɛ-. Before a vowel, this is hɛʔ-, and before dependent i-stems, it's c-.

- A third-person possessor (proximate or obviative animate; inanimates can't possess things) takes o-, which is oʔ- before a vowel. Dependent i-stems, rather than taking a prefix for third-person possessors, instead undergo mutation of the i to u.

- An unknown possessor takes the prefix mɛ-, which is mɛʔ- before vowels and m- before dependent i-stems.

So, the stem -nɛ̂hc 'hand' gives the forms nɛnɛ̂hc 'my hand', hɛnɛ̂hc 'your hand', onɛ̂hc 'his hand', and mɛnɛ̂hc 'someone's hand; a hand', which are direct continuations of PA *neneθki, *keneθki, *oneθki, *meneθki.

Some dependent nouns have stems beginning in i-, and they take their own set of prefixes- except for the forms with third-person possessors, which don't take a prefix at all and instead mutate the i- to u-. So, -ípec 'tooth' gives nípec 'my tooth', cípec 'your tooth', úpec 'his tooth' and mípec 'someone's tooth; a tooth'. (The vowel mutation in the third person forms is due to contraction of historical *wī- to u-, so there was originally a prefix, but it's not synchronically obvious.)

Plural possessors must take pluralizing suffixes; these are referred to as the 'inner suffixes', since they appear before the 'outer suffixes' which mark obviation and number.

- First person plural possessors take -ɛnɛn. (Clusivity distinctions are marked in the prefix: first-person exclusive takes nɛ-/nɛʔ-/n-, inclusive hɛ-/hɛʔ-/-c).

-Second person and third person proximate plural possessors take -o, which becomes -ow- before a vowel.

- Analogy has complicated, rather than collapsed, the inflection for obviative possessors. Note, first, that an animate noun with a third-person proximate possessor must be obviated; if it has an obviative possessor, it takes a secondary obviative outer suffix. In animate nouns, that is, the obviation of the possessor is marked by the outer suffix, not the inner suffix or the prefix. (Plurality isn't marked for obviative possessors).

However, if the noun is inanimate, it has no marking of obviation in the outer suffixes (and ranks below all animate anyways); thus the inner suffix -ɛne(w)- marks the possessor as obviative.

Let's look at the possessive paradigm of an animate dependent noun, -mîs 'older sister', . <3'> means 'obviative possessor'; <X> means 'unknown possessor'. The underlined number marking on top refers to the number of the noun; the abbreviated marking in columns refers to the number of the possessor.



Inanimate nouns are a bit simpler, since they don't have their own obviation marking to deal with. We'll use nípec 'my tooth' as our guinea pig:



Most nouns that aren't obligatorily possessed must take the 'formative' -em, with contraction to a preceding semivowel if obligatory (I really need to work out a good way to write the underlying forms of morphemes...). So, nɛmâhum 'my bear'.

OTHER THINGS ABOUT NOUNS

Nouns freely form diminutives with -es-, which mutates to -us after stems that mutate -a to -o and to -is after stems that mutate it to -ɛ.Thus atémus 'puppy', êsepɛnes 'baby raccoon' (cf. êsepɛn 'raccoon'), âsenis 'pebble', húnis 'frost'.

There is a locative formed with -(ɛ)hc: wíciwamɛhc 'at home', âcihc 'on the ground'. With animates, it usually means something similar to the French chez: músohc 'where the elk roam'. Locatives create adverbs, and so have no plurals or obviatives (they can take possessors, though).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:28 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Posts: 838
Location: The North
I have several questions. 1, dhok, are you still there? 2, is this project still ongoing? And 3, does the lack of updates indicate that you've ditched the project or that you're just too busy are the moment?

_________________


First known on here as Karero


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group