zompist bboard

So I've created a featural writing system (like Korean Hangul and the writing system Artifexian made up for OA) for my language Checkish, or Cekşi [tʃekʃi]. However, I do not know how I would adapt the writing system for cursive handwriting. How would it even work? The syllable blocks run from top to bottom and the lines run from the left to the right, so how would you do it?

Also, even though it's not what I'm specifically looking for, if you want to critique my writing system in this thread that's fine. Here are some photos of me holding the piece of paper I wrote everything on up to my webcam (I'm on Linux and it didn't come with Cheese Webcam Booth so I had to use XSane and it was a pain in the butt). Have fun.




Yes, I used Google Drive.

Do you have a larger image?

Why would you need to have a cursive style anyway? And if your script really is like Hangul or something, maybe you could use something along the lines of this.

Can you please post the links to the image files on Google? These images you posted are too tiny for me. I have never heard of the concept. The main concern is that each individual component has to be separably legible within the block, or else it has basically transformed into a syllabary. Otherwise, I don't see the problem is.

Vijay wrote:Why would you need to have a cursive style anyway?

When writing on paper, parchment, papyrus, etc., a cursive style usually helps people write faster (unless if they are me, as I find print to be faster when writing in the Latin alphabet .)

When creating an orthography, you need to think of what strokes are allowed. To make a cursive form, turn non-curves into curves, and you are done. Many or most cursives connect between characters with a finishing curve, but this is not required. Syriac and Arabic scripts, which are both cursive in default form, have different forms of letters depending on what position they have (Arabic distinguishes between initial, medial, final and isolated forms, while Syriac distinguishes between normal, final connected and final unconnected forms.) Ligatures can introduce further complications. I suggest you avoid making any unless if there are diphthongs and consonant clusters within a syllable, in which case those elements can become ligatures. Also, you can decide to merge several non-cursive strokes into a single curve, speeding writing even more (keep in mind how this might affect legibility on a case by case basis for each block element and stroke.) Until I can actually see the samples, I cannot give any advice specific to your script.

After a short period of looking things up on Google and Wikipedia, I found the following in Korean:
The Gungche (궁체 or 宮體) style of Hangul is based on traditional calligraphy but isn't really a cursive script. Many people adopt their own personal styles for writing the script, some of which are cursive(ish).

No script "needs" a cursive style, but all scripts do have a variety of "cursive" scripts, because writing in print is annoying, slow, and pointless--characters can be interprable even if there is a startling level of difference between the "official" variant of the letter and the one that is used in practice. This is, further, because people do not actually read individual characters, they read words, and if the general shape of the word is preserved there is no difficulty reading it even if some letters or substructures (I use the term substructures to recognize the habits of casual writing in systems where the idea of a letter is not quite coherent or does not exhaust the graphic symbols that appear) are severely different, elided, or even absent.

thetha wrote:all scripts

Extremely geometric scripts, like Canadian syllabics, sometimes lack cursives. Germanic runes, which were curved in wood and stone, are impossible to write in cursive due to the difficulty of making those marks in said materials.

thetha wrote:This is, further, because people do not actually read individual characters, they read words, and if the general shape of the word is preserved there is no difficulty reading it even if some letters or substructures (I use the term substructures to recognize the habits of casual writing in systems where the idea of a letter is not quite coherent or does not exhaust the graphic symbols that appear) are severely different, elided, or even absent.

I disagree, because if a cursive style of a phonographic system eliminates the contrast for individual substructures and relies on knowing word shapes for legibility, the cursive is essentially logographic. People do read individual characters when encountering new words, so a phonographic system in cursive needs to retain those distinctions for that purpose.

Well.

Let me try to do this.

1) No, I do not have bigger pictures. I took them with a webcam and a piece of software designed for use with scanners.
2) I never said I needed one, but someone on the bus asked me if I had a cursive version of the script and I froze up.
3) Here's a link. Here's another link.
That takes care of that then.

Please give some samples of written words or a sentence in the script. If it's hard to scan you can do it in ms paint or something.

Suggestions:
When writing individual consonants, the overall direction is to start at the top right and work your way to the bottom left. This is reversed for /k ʔ ɡ/ and aspiration. Your script has a lot of right angles, which can be written as large curves, while the acute angles can be written as lines followed by curves. /l/ is already good as it its. As for the other sounds in the row, as well as in sounds of the alveolar group, the end of the line might be somewhat hard to write as a single stroke distinguishable from other characters. Such an end could be elaborated as a final upwards swash after finishing the rest of the character. /j/ is written with an almost straight curve to distinguish it from /s/. Dotting and arcs can be added after writing like tittles and t-crosses in English. Aspiration is a downwards swash that starts lower down the letter than the other swash (a "line swash" or "curve swash") and generally doesn't extend as far from the letter. The vowels are more difficult. You might want to redraw /a e u/ as open shapes, but you can keep /i o/ as they are. The curve of the first onset element is the start of the vowel. If there is more than one coda consonant, the top one's curve connects to the bottom's base. When there are adjacent lined elements or a line swash consonant followed by a lined consonant in the onset characters, draw a single, long line for both of them. When there is a large curve consonant followed by a line, draw a single line and draw your large curve at the end of the line. After a line swash or curve swash, either a tiny curve brings it back to line level or you start a curve from it, allowing you to write the top similarly to the other situations. The first character to be finished is the first sound of the onset. Then you go to the second (if any), the vowel, top coda character and bottom coda character (if any).

mèþru wrote:Suggestions:
When writing individual consonants, the overall direction is to start at the top right and work your way to the bottom left. This is reversed for /k ʔ ɡ/ and aspiration. Your script has a lot of right angles, which can be written as large curves, while the acute angles can be written as lines followed by curves. /l/ is already good as it its. As for the other sounds in the row, as well as in sounds of the alveolar group, the end of the line might be somewhat hard to write as a single stroke distinguishable from other characters. Such an end could be elaborated as a final upwards swash after finishing the rest of the character. /j/ is written with an almost straight curve to distinguish it from /s/. Dotting and arcs can be added after writing like tittles and t-crosses in English. Aspiration is a downwards swash that starts lower down the letter than the other swash (a "line swash" or "curve swash") and generally doesn't extend as far from the letter. The vowels are more difficult. You might want to redraw /a e u/ as open shapes, but you can keep /i o/ as they are. The curve of the first onset element is the start of the vowel. If there is more than one coda consonant, the top one's curve connects to the bottom's base. When there are adjacent lined elements or a line swash consonant followed by a lined consonant in the onset characters, draw a single, long line for both of them. When there is a large curve consonant followed by a line, draw a single line and draw your large curve at the end of the line. After a line swash or curve swash, either a tiny curve brings it back to line level or you start a curve from it, allowing you to write the top similarly to the other situations. The first character to be finished is the first sound of the onset. Then you go to the second (if any), the vowel, top coda character and bottom coda character (if any).

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll work on it!

clawgrip wrote:Please give some samples of written words or a sentence in the script. If it's hard to scan you can do it in ms paint or something.

I'm not exactly good at digital graphic editing software (plus, my only two options on Linux are GIMP and ASERPRITE (a sprite editing program)) so I'll try to scan it. That or just upload it to Google Drive from my Windows drive on my laptop and then move over to Linux to give y'all the link.

I'll do the second option. I'll be right back.

Here's some writing in the script (and therefore my conlang). The first sentence is basically the word for "Hey" or "Hello", the second sentence is me introducing myself (I had to switch around the [n] and the [s] in my last name to make it one syllable long) and the script, and the last sentence (on a separate line) is me saying my U.S. History teacher is awesome. Have fun with this link.

It is hard to see what's written with the poor image quality,

mèþru wrote:It is hard to see what's written with the poor image quality,

Sorry my friend. I'd try and take better quality images, however this webcam and my iPhone are my only two picture taking tools (and my iPhone only has 16 GB of storage (how is Apple getting away with that again?)).

Can you have a friend take a picture for you?

mèþru wrote:Can you have a friend take a picture for you?

Possibly. I will have to wait until tomorrow, however. It's getting late here.

mèþru wrote:Suggestions:
When writing individual consonants, the overall direction is to start at the top right and work your way to the bottom left. This is reversed for /k ʔ ɡ/ and aspiration. Your script has a lot of right angles, which can be written as large curves, while the acute angles can be written as lines followed by curves. /l/ is already good as it its. As for the other sounds in the row, as well as in sounds of the alveolar group, the end of the line might be somewhat hard to write as a single stroke distinguishable from other characters. Such an end could be elaborated as a final upwards swash after finishing the rest of the character. /j/ is written with an almost straight curve to distinguish it from /s/. Dotting and arcs can be added after writing like tittles and t-crosses in English. Aspiration is a downwards swash that starts lower down the letter than the other swash (a "line swash" or "curve swash") and generally doesn't extend as far from the letter. The vowels are more difficult. You might want to redraw /a e u/ as open shapes, but you can keep /i o/ as they are. The curve of the first onset element is the start of the vowel. If there is more than one coda consonant, the top one's curve connects to the bottom's base. When there are adjacent lined elements or a line swash consonant followed by a lined consonant in the onset characters, draw a single, long line for both of them. When there is a large curve consonant followed by a line, draw a single line and draw your large curve at the end of the line. After a line swash or curve swash, either a tiny curve brings it back to line level or you start a curve from it, allowing you to write the top similarly to the other situations. The first character to be finished is the first sound of the onset. Then you go to the second (if any), the vowel, top coda character and bottom coda character (if any).

I just realized I have no clue what an open shape is. I think it's a shape that doesn't have all the sides, but I'm not sure. Am I right?

It means a shape where not all lines or curves connect to form a closed area in two dimensions, and one in which not all lines/curves/faces are connect to form a closed volume in three dimensions.

mèþru wrote:It means a shape where not all lines or curves connect to form a closed area in two dimensions, and one in which not all lines/curves/faces are connect to form a closed volume in three dimensions.

Got it. Thank you!