Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

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Salmoneus
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Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

If anyone's interested, I've been working on a Germanic language, Øynduyska, and am now gradually uploading a description to my blog. The intention isn't for it to be a thoroughly-developed language, but to at least be a solidly if briefly described one.

So far, you can read a brief introduction, the first part of the phonology/orthography, and the second part of the phonology/orthography. More, of couse, to follow.

All feedback gratefully received!
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

And, perhaps of greater interest, there are now nouns.
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by spanick »

So far, I really like what I see! Always nice to see a Germlang. After reading your intro, I think you accomplish what you meant to. It does remind me a lot of OE....especially the nominal system, with a Norse-like orthography. Not so much a descendant to OE but more like a sister or correlate language.

The orthography is utterly baffling (and that is meant as a compliment). I've always felt it was quite fitting for Germlangs to have orthographies which are more natural, difficult, and etymological. I only skimmed the phonology and orthography so I must admit that I didn't give it much study but I like the system. It feels like a mixture of Dutch and Faroese... my only question is what is up with <bh>? Where does that come from etymologically? Personally, I don't like the aesthetic of <bh> or <dh> so maybe I'm overreacting. Also, if you explained it in your phonology sections, I apologize. Again, I only skimmed it.

This really makes me want to revisit Halelannish. Great work!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

Pronouns, articles, demonstratives, adjectives now up.

Spanick: thank you! Glad it pleases so far. <bh> is because many instance of /v/ come from earlier /b/. <v> itself wasn't used because of the location at the periphery of Europe - <v> and <w> weren't introduced until much later, and when <v> was introduced it was primarily to disambiguate f/v. Since there was hardly ever a confusion medially (where non-geminate /f/ is rare) or finally (where <f> was always /f/), <v> was primarily used only initially.
It helps that there were some Irish monks around early on...
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by hwhatting »

(Just for keping track - my comments are at Sal's blog).

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by alice »

That's really cool, Sal. The orthography is - well - challenging, but it gives the language character. Speaking as a creator of several Germlangs, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with the verbs.

One thing, though. At the start of the section on vowels is this:
three salient environments – open, closed, pre-geminate, and unstressed.
I make it four...
Zompist's Markov generator wrote:it was labelled" orange marmalade," but that is unutterably hideous.

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

alice wrote:That's really cool, Sal. The orthography is - well - challenging, but it gives the language character.
Challenging as in ugly, or challenging as in confusing?
One thing, though. At the start of the section on vowels is this:
three salient environments – open, closed, pre-geminate, and unstressed.
I make it four...
[/quote]
Thanks!
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by alice »

[quote="Salmoneus"]Challenging as in ugly, or challenging as in confusing?[quote]

Confusing. It's not easy having to flip back and forward to another age to work out how to pronounce something, especially when there are so many rules. Maybe you could provide a phonemic transcription alongside each word?
Zompist's Markov generator wrote:it was labelled" orange marmalade," but that is unutterably hideous.

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by KathTheDragon »

I agree with that sentiment. While it's totally awesome to have a realisticly obtuse orthography, a proper phonemic romanisation is, IMO, absolutely necessary.

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

I didn't want to bog everything down with phonemic transcriptions that probably wouldn't really interest anyone. Besides, I thought the orthography was mostly pretty intuitive... apparently not!
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Ars Lande »

A typo I caught in passing in the nouns section:
Some common, formal or poetic nouns show predictable verb changes in the genitives:

I don't mind the orthography myself - it's more realistic anyway. And besides, it's easier than English or Swedish in that respect! a
Having the occasional transcription in IPA is fine.

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

Thanks.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

The first part of what may be a rather long discussion of verbs is now up. This installment discusses verbal morphology in both strong and weak verbs.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

Discussing the use of the aorist and preterite tenses. Also, the compound past and the double past.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by alice »

We're really getting to the juicy bits now. The phonemic transcriptions are very handy.
Zompist's Markov generator wrote:it was labelled" orange marmalade," but that is unutterably hideous.

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

And now, progressives.
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by spanick »

As the posts keep coming in, I'm starting to pick up the orthography fairly well. I really like what I'm seeing. It seems very natural. It would be interesting to know why/how these various nuanced tense/aspects developed.

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by cunningham »

Very Ænglisc, almost Faroesey. Nice.

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

Thank you.


Spanick: broadly, these constructions began as colloquial or restricted expressions, following patterns common throughout Germanic languages. They came to replace the plain tenses in many circumstances (and positional auxiliaries came to replace the copula in non-essential situations) but because this is a relatively recent development they have not yet been levelled into simpler and more universal constructions, and their use is asymmetrical (some constructions have just 'stand', some have 'stand' and 'lie', and some have all three of 'stand', 'lie' and 'sit'), probably reflecting different periods of grammaticalisation.
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

Almost at the end of the verbs now...

(...and then we'll do a bit of syntax)

But for now: Predication!
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

Two updates for you...

First, the last content on verbs per se: passives, impersonals, and subjunctives

Second, a pair of handy summary verbal tables for the periphrastic forms: see? handy!
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Salmoneus »

Some syntax. Basic word order, adverbs, object fronting, and separable verbs.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by spanick »

i just realize that on the page for pronouns, you haven't actually made a table and listed the pronouns. Is that located somewhere else?

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Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language

Post by Echobeats »

So I haven't posted since, apparently, 2012, but I wanted to come back on and say how much I'm enjoying Øynduyska. I've been trying to get the beginnings of a Norse-descended conlang sorted out in my head for some time so it's good to see a Germanic conlang by someone who really knows their stuff.

(Hi everyone btw. Sorry I haven't been around much. I have three kids now.)
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