Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
Spanish/Portuguese/Galician/Asturian/Aragonese azul, i.e. blue, all come from Arabic lāzuward ("lapis lazuli"), from Persian lâjvard, and asól is so obviously related that I cannot believe that you did not actually plan this.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
- Posts: 3197
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: One of the dark places of the world
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
...no need to be quite so aggressive about it, it's just etymology.Travis B. wrote:Spanish/Portuguese/Galician/Asturian/Aragonese azul, i.e. blue, all come from Arabic lāzuward ("lapis lazuli"), from Persian lâjvard, and asól is so obviously related that I cannot believe that you did not actually plan this.
Sorry guys, I don't know Arabic, and didn't know that that word specifically was part of the transition chain.
I did, however, say openly that it was a borrowing from Portuguese (or something similar, at least).
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
Sorry about the tone - I missed that you said that it was a Portuguese loan.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
- Posts: 3197
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: One of the dark places of the world
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
No problem; sorry if I snapped back at you.Travis B. wrote:Sorry about the tone - I missed that you said that it was a Portuguese loan.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
- Posts: 3197
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: One of the dark places of the world
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
Another vocabulary update: this time, just one word... (and actually, only in one part of speech at that):
ta
with nominative:
– to, with (with verbs of communication): talk ech ta ða meyden, “I talk with the girl”
– to (a country, region, conceptual space): ta Frankrikji, “to France”
– extending to (when paired with vra): lieg blǫsmen vra wąll ta wąll, “there are flowers from wall to wall”
– partaking in, to in order to partake in (an event): ta ða parti, “to the party”, “at the party”
– indicating a factitive indirect object: vell wi hem ta Presedent, “we elect him President”; dó she hem ta guma, “she takes him as her husband”.
with dative:
– as, in the function of: ta ði móði, “as your mother”
– for the purposes of (when modifying a noun or adjective, often with infinitive): yóð ta etha, “good to eat”, “good for eating”; yóð ta parta, “good for a party”
– to the advantage of (when modifying a noun or adjective): yóð ta advocata, “good for lawyers”
– in regards to, respecting, of (when modifiying a noun, particularly relating to a role): Presedent ta ða Øynduyaren, “President of the Wenthar Islands”; rinn ta fieða, “king of beasts”.
– of, particular to (when modifying a noun, typically relating to a human): advocat ta mi, “my lawyer”
– indicating relationships of exchange or proportion: tarb menn ta pangwenen ðenn, “my bull in exchange for your penguin”; viðr mill ta ða tima, “four miles per hour”
– for, with respect to (with verbs of payment, duty, etc.): thal ech ta ða bóka, “I pay for the books”
– to (a recipient, with a ditransitive verb): yøbh ech ða bóker ta ða meydna, “I give the books to the girl”
– for, for the benefit of (a recipient, with verbs of acquisition): cap ech ða bóker ta ða meydna, “I buy the books for the girl”
– by, for (a deadline): ta Dursday, “by Thursday”
– in, at (a constituent part of an area, place or thing): ta hiya ða saeler, “at/in the back of the room”; ta arma ða männ, “at/by the arm of the man”.
Germanic prepositions are complicated...
ta
with nominative:
– to, with (with verbs of communication): talk ech ta ða meyden, “I talk with the girl”
– to (a country, region, conceptual space): ta Frankrikji, “to France”
– extending to (when paired with vra): lieg blǫsmen vra wąll ta wąll, “there are flowers from wall to wall”
– partaking in, to in order to partake in (an event): ta ða parti, “to the party”, “at the party”
– indicating a factitive indirect object: vell wi hem ta Presedent, “we elect him President”; dó she hem ta guma, “she takes him as her husband”.
with dative:
– as, in the function of: ta ði móði, “as your mother”
– for the purposes of (when modifying a noun or adjective, often with infinitive): yóð ta etha, “good to eat”, “good for eating”; yóð ta parta, “good for a party”
– to the advantage of (when modifying a noun or adjective): yóð ta advocata, “good for lawyers”
– in regards to, respecting, of (when modifiying a noun, particularly relating to a role): Presedent ta ða Øynduyaren, “President of the Wenthar Islands”; rinn ta fieða, “king of beasts”.
– of, particular to (when modifying a noun, typically relating to a human): advocat ta mi, “my lawyer”
– indicating relationships of exchange or proportion: tarb menn ta pangwenen ðenn, “my bull in exchange for your penguin”; viðr mill ta ða tima, “four miles per hour”
– for, with respect to (with verbs of payment, duty, etc.): thal ech ta ða bóka, “I pay for the books”
– to (a recipient, with a ditransitive verb): yøbh ech ða bóker ta ða meydna, “I give the books to the girl”
– for, for the benefit of (a recipient, with verbs of acquisition): cap ech ða bóker ta ða meydna, “I buy the books for the girl”
– by, for (a deadline): ta Dursday, “by Thursday”
– in, at (a constituent part of an area, place or thing): ta hiya ða saeler, “at/in the back of the room”; ta arma ða männ, “at/by the arm of the man”.
Germanic prepositions are complicated...
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
- Posts: 3197
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: One of the dark places of the world
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
Some fauna:
The Wenthars, thanks to their isolation, boast very few land animals. These include:
– har. Hare. Hares are widespread across the islands. Shot, trapped or dog-caught hare was once one of the most common meats on the islands; it remains a favourite, though it has become a luxury with the advent of cheaper imported meats.
– muss. Mouse.
– rątt. Black rat. Black rats have been driven from most urban areas, but they remain widespread on some smaller islands, and in the few surviving forested areas.
– hanofr. Brown rat. Common in urban areas and throughout some islands.
– iggel. Hedgehog.
– huw. Dog. The islands are home to three native breeds: the Wenthar Sheepdog (a spitz-derived medium-sized herder, companion and rat-catcher, not dissimilar from the Icelandic Sheepdog); the Wenthar Water Dog (a larger animal specialising in retrieving prey from water, swimming with nets and lines, and rescuing drowning fishermen); and the Wenthar Setter (a later-introduced red and white hunting dog similar in appearance to the English Setter). Although these three remain the most common companion animals, small numbers of imported breeds are also found.
Notable sea creatures include:
– vish. Fish.
– fal. Whale.
– meęrfen. Dolphin.
– sálck. Seal.
– oti. Otter (found both in rivers and at sea).
– crąbba. Crab.
– aąl. Eel.
Meanwhile, the islands are home to a great many birds. Terms include:
– fowl. Bird.
– kjyken. Chicken.
– ąnod. Duck.
– gás. Goose.
– skuva. Skua.
– gárfowl. Great auk – a species that during the 19th century was reduced exclusively to breeding in the Wenthars, though later reintroductions have ended the islands’ monopoly on the birds. The national bird of the islands.
– vátenn. Shearwater.
– loom. Diver.
– yanot. Gannet.
– vila. Gull.
– stormswąla. Storm petrel.
– smyrel. Merlin.
– vishąra. Osprey.
– lárch. Lark.
– hrąvn. Raven.
– crao. Crow.
– dybling. Wenthish magpie – an endemic species with light blue wings, related to the Iberian magpie.
– fitdybling. Magpie.
The Wenthars, thanks to their isolation, boast very few land animals. These include:
– har. Hare. Hares are widespread across the islands. Shot, trapped or dog-caught hare was once one of the most common meats on the islands; it remains a favourite, though it has become a luxury with the advent of cheaper imported meats.
– muss. Mouse.
– rątt. Black rat. Black rats have been driven from most urban areas, but they remain widespread on some smaller islands, and in the few surviving forested areas.
– hanofr. Brown rat. Common in urban areas and throughout some islands.
– iggel. Hedgehog.
– huw. Dog. The islands are home to three native breeds: the Wenthar Sheepdog (a spitz-derived medium-sized herder, companion and rat-catcher, not dissimilar from the Icelandic Sheepdog); the Wenthar Water Dog (a larger animal specialising in retrieving prey from water, swimming with nets and lines, and rescuing drowning fishermen); and the Wenthar Setter (a later-introduced red and white hunting dog similar in appearance to the English Setter). Although these three remain the most common companion animals, small numbers of imported breeds are also found.
Notable sea creatures include:
– vish. Fish.
– fal. Whale.
– meęrfen. Dolphin.
– sálck. Seal.
– oti. Otter (found both in rivers and at sea).
– crąbba. Crab.
– aąl. Eel.
Meanwhile, the islands are home to a great many birds. Terms include:
– fowl. Bird.
– kjyken. Chicken.
– ąnod. Duck.
– gás. Goose.
– skuva. Skua.
– gárfowl. Great auk – a species that during the 19th century was reduced exclusively to breeding in the Wenthars, though later reintroductions have ended the islands’ monopoly on the birds. The national bird of the islands.
– vátenn. Shearwater.
– loom. Diver.
– yanot. Gannet.
– vila. Gull.
– stormswąla. Storm petrel.
– smyrel. Merlin.
– vishąra. Osprey.
– lárch. Lark.
– hrąvn. Raven.
– crao. Crow.
– dybling. Wenthish magpie – an endemic species with light blue wings, related to the Iberian magpie.
– fitdybling. Magpie.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- Herra Ratatoskr
- Avisaru
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:26 pm
- Location: Missouri (loves company!)
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
I just read through this and I just got one thing to say: "damn!". I really like the look and feel of this language; it's satisfyingly Teutonic, while still having it's own distinct feel to it. It actually kind of reminds me of Lowan in that regard. Just wondering if you have any diachronic stuff on this written out anywhere; I can see some of the things that happened but it would be cool to see the whole journey from Proto-Germanic.
I also had to smile a bit at a couple of the developments you wrote about (the way the indefinite article works, the development of the first person dual, and the development of nominal animacy) that are similar to things I'm doing in West Saxon (and thought I was being clever with).
I also had to smile a bit at a couple of the developments you wrote about (the way the indefinite article works, the development of the first person dual, and the development of nominal animacy) that are similar to things I'm doing in West Saxon (and thought I was being clever with).
I am Ratatosk, Norse Squirrel of Strife!
There are 10 types of people in this world:
-Those who understand binary
-Those who don't
Mater tua circeta ibat et pater tuus sambucorum olficiebat!
There are 10 types of people in this world:
-Those who understand binary
-Those who don't
Mater tua circeta ibat et pater tuus sambucorum olficiebat!
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
- Posts: 3197
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: One of the dark places of the world
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
Thank you! Your own West Saxon has continually nudged me back in the direction of Germanic conlanging, so this is in large part all your fault...Herra Ratatoskr wrote:I just read through this and I just got one thing to say: "damn!". I really like the look and feel of this language; it's satisfyingly Teutonic, while still having it's own distinct feel to it. It actually kind of reminds me of Lowan in that regard.
Unfortunately, the diachronic stuff is at present just a massive, convoluted, loophole-blighted SCA sound change list, and there continue to be a few open issues that I go back and forth on. But you're right, a plain-English overview of the diachronics would be a good idea, and might help me rationalise and finalise the precise changes...Just wondering if you have any diachronic stuff on this written out anywhere; I can see some of the things that happened but it would be cool to see the whole journey from Proto-Germanic.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- Herra Ratatoskr
- Avisaru
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:26 pm
- Location: Missouri (loves company!)
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
Wow, I'm honored (I think )Salmoneus wrote: Thank you! Your own West Saxon has continually nudged me back in the direction of Germanic conlanging, so this is in large part all your fault...
I definitely hear you on that one. My main effort right now on West Saxon is writing up a comprehensive overview of all the sound changes that occur in all 10 of the dialects and sub-dialects in one master document. I've found that I keep wanting to go back and just tweak the sound changes some, which in turn triggers tweaks to the grammar, which resets my progress. I'm hoping that by having a list that I can declare as DONE(tm), I can resist that some.Salmoneus wrote: Unfortunately, the diachronic stuff is at present just a massive, convoluted, loophole-blighted SCA sound change list, and there continue to be a few open issues that I go back and forth on. But you're right, a plain-English overview of the diachronics would be a good idea, and might help me rationalize and finalize the precise changes...
I am Ratatosk, Norse Squirrel of Strife!
There are 10 types of people in this world:
-Those who understand binary
-Those who don't
Mater tua circeta ibat et pater tuus sambucorum olficiebat!
There are 10 types of people in this world:
-Those who understand binary
-Those who don't
Mater tua circeta ibat et pater tuus sambucorum olficiebat!
- Das Public Viewing
- Sanci
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:56 pm
- Location: Right Behind You
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
I know i'm a bit late to the party here, but I'd also be interested in this, especially in how *wulfaz gets to wǫlf /wʌlf/, or how the two "ä"s come to be. Your entire vowel system seems really interesting.Salmoneus wrote:Unfortunately, the diachronic stuff is at present just a massive, convoluted, loophole-blighted SCA sound change list, and there continue to be a few open issues that I go back and forth on. But you're right, a plain-English overview of the diachronics would be a good idea, and might help me rationalise and finalise the precise changes...Herra Ratatoskr wrote:Just wondering if you have any diachronic stuff on this written out anywhere; I can see some of the things that happened but it would be cool to see the whole journey from Proto-Germanic.
Also, if it's not too much a breach of etiquette to ask questions, is there any sandhi in the language (besides á/an I mean)? Does the postalveolar rule operate across word boundaries, or to vowels assimilate if a word ends in a vowel before a vowel-initial word, etc?
[meta comment]
- nebula wind phone
- Sanci
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:58 am
- Location: Austin, Texas, USA
- Contact:
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
Oh dang, I like this a lot!
I'd be curious to know what the (internal or external) story is with <bh> and <bhv>.
I'd be curious to know what the (internal or external) story is with <bh> and <bhv>.
"When I was about 16 it occurred to me that conlanging might be a sin, but I changed my mind when I realized Adam and Eve were doing it before the Fall." —Mercator
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
- Posts: 3197
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: One of the dark places of the world
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
Thank you! Not sure why this language particularly seems to draw oldbies out of the woodwork, but I'm grateful in any case!nebula wind phone wrote:Oh dang, I like this a lot!
I'd be curious to know what the (internal or external) story is with <bh> and <bhv>.
<bh> is just taken from Irish. Early on, /v/, /w/ and /u/ would all have been written <u>, and the Irish monks who tried to write it down borrowed <bh> from their own conventions (aided by the fact that in some words it alternated with /b/). <bhv>, I'm not yet sure on, but it's an idea for a geminate, which would have been derived from doubling up <bh> with, originally, <u>, later replaced by <v> in all consonantal scenarios.
DPV: thanks. I'm still working on diachronics (read: in the process of writing things up neatly, I started fiddling with them, which created problems, which required more fiddling, which required...). But on the narrow question of "wolf" - the /u/ is lowered to /o/ by the following /a/ very early on, as it is in most Germanic languages, and was then lowered further before the sonorant+stop cluster. The resulting low back vowel then derounded in most contexts.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- Nortaneous
- Sumerul
- Posts: 4544
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
- Location: the Imperial Corridor
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
When did the Irish monks show up? Would they have used <bh> (instead of b-overdot) then, or have marked lenition at all?Salmoneus wrote:<bh> is just taken from Irish. Early on, /v/, /w/ and /u/ would all have been written <u>, and the Irish monks who tried to write it down borrowed <bh> from their own conventions (aided by the fact that in some words it alternated with /b/).
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
- Posts: 3197
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: One of the dark places of the world
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
...bugger. No, they wouldn't have. H-digraphs in Old Irish were only for voiceless fricatives, not for voiced ones. They'd just have used <b>.Nortaneous wrote:When did the Irish monks show up? Would they have used <bh> (instead of b-overdot) then, or have marked lenition at all?Salmoneus wrote:<bh> is just taken from Irish. Early on, /v/, /w/ and /u/ would all have been written <u>, and the Irish monks who tried to write it down borrowed <bh> from their own conventions (aided by the fact that in some words it alternated with /b/).
I'll have to think about that again. Although given <ph> etc, <bh> isn't much of a stretch; I'm already planning on having <gh>, at least historically, so...
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- Nortaneous
- Sumerul
- Posts: 4544
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
- Location: the Imperial Corridor
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
It could be that <bh> was introduced as morphophonemic spelling (for words where /v/ alternates with /b/) during the period of standardization.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
- Posts: 3197
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: One of the dark places of the world
Re: Øynduyska - A Germanic Language
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!