[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4752: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4754: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4755: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4756: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
zompist bboard • View topic - Fenja orthography: An abugida with different inherent vowels

zompist bboard

THIS IS AN ARCHIVE ONLY - see Ephemera
It is currently Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:54 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:58 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:41 am
Posts: 437
Location: Davis, CA
I've had trouble coming up with glyphs I like, but I really wanted to talk about the design principle of the orthography of my Ansai language group, whose most prominent representative is Undreve. This orthography is named for Fenja, the prestige dialect of a dialect continuum from which the modern Ansai languages descend. It is distinguished by being more or less an abugida but having different inherent vowels for different groups of consonants based on their historical secondary articulation.

Fenja phonology

To start off, we need to understand the phonology of Fenja. In the period where the writing system's usage became (more or less) standardized, most consonants contrasted some subset of labialized (probably technically labiovelarized), palatalized, and velarized or neutral articulations. There is some uncertainty as to whether various "velarized" consonants actually had velar secondary articulation or simply lacked a secondary articulation (and obviously "velarized velars" aren't literally velarized), but for the purposes of the orthography and historical phonology of the descendant languages they will be marked as velarized.

Fenja's consonants are as follows:

/mˠ mʲ nˠ nʲ nʷ/
/pˠ bˠ pʲ bʲ tˠ dˠ tʲ dʲ tʷ dʷ kˠ ɡˠ kʲ ɡʲ kʷ ɡʷ/
/fˠ vˠ fʲ vʲ sˠ zˠ sʲ zʲ sʷ zʷ/
/lˠ lʲ rˠ/
/j w/

As you can see, this is an overlay of secondary articulations on this base inventory:

/m n/
/p b t d k ɡ/
/f v s z/
/l r/
/j w/

(This is more or less the inventory of Proto-Ansai. Fenja's inventory came about after numerous monophthongizations, glide deletions, and other vowel shifts made the secondary articulations phonemic.)

Labialization is only distinguished from velarization on non-labial obstruents and nasals.

Fenja's vowel system distinguishes far more qualities in long vowels than short:

/i a u/
/iː aː uː eː oː ʉː/

Fenja allows syllables of the form (C)V(C)(C). Long vowels can occur in open syllables or syllables ending in a single consonant, but not in syllables ending in two consonants. Coda clusters are restricted to a glide or liquid followed by an obstruent, a homorganic nasal followed by an obstruent (with the coronal nasals assimilated to velars), or a glide followed by a liquid or nasal.

On top of this, consonants in a cluster assimilate in secondary articulation to a following consonant, with /j/ treated as palatalized and /w/ treated as labialized when preceded by another consonant. (They aren't affected by following consonants.) Labialization is not distinguished from velarization before rounded vowels.

Glyphs

Every one of the consonants distinguished in Fenja has a glyph. These consonant glyphs have an inherent short vowel whose quality depends on their secondary articulation: Velarized consonants have an inherent /a/, palatalized consonants have /i/, and labialized consonants have /u/. There is also a "dummy" or "carrier" glyph with inherent vowel /a/, used for word-initial syllables with null onsets. (Provided the vowel isn't a close vowel; initial close vowels are written with the "logical" close vowel glyph, with initial /ʉː/ using the glyph for /j/. This doesn't cause ambiguity because Fenja did not allow word-initial sequences of glide plus close vowel.)

These glyphs will be represented as follows:

/mˠ mʲ nˠ nʲ nʷ/ <MA MI NA NI NU>
/pˠ bˠ pʲ bʲ tˠ dˠ tʲ dʲ tʷ dʷ kˠ ɡˠ kʲ ɡʲ kʷ ɡʷ/ <PA BA PI BI TA DA TI DI TU DU KA GA KI GI KU GU>
/fˠ vˠ fʲ vʲ sˠ zˠ sʲ zʲ sʷ zʷ/ <FA VA FI VI SA ZA SI ZI SU ZU>
/lˠ lʲ rˠ/ <LA LI RA>
/j w 0/ <YI WU HA>

The vowels, meanwhile, have the following set of six glyphs:

/iː aː uː eː oː ʉː/ <I A U E O Ü>

These vowel glyphs cannot be written independently and must have a consonant glyph to carry them.

As you can see, only long vowels are typically written. Since the majority of the time a short vowel following a consonant corresponds to that consonant's inherent vowel, and since the range of legal consonant clusters is not too large, there is not much information loss from having occasional other short vowels or the lack of a vowel not written.

A few example words:

/sʲiɡʲirˠdˠ/ <SI.GI.RA.DA>
/kʷoːzˠɡˠeːnˠ/ <KU.O.ZA.GA.E.NA>
/fʲirˠkʲinʷtʷʉːmʲ/ <FI.RA.KI.NU.TU.Ü.MI>
/vʲʉːlˠaː/ <VI.Ü.LA.A>

Non-palatalized consonants before a rounded vowel are customarily written using the glyphs for labialized consonants if applicable, although it is likely that their actual articulation was in between those of prototypical velarized and labialized consonants; descendants varyingly treat these sounds as labialized or velarized. Consonants that do not distinguish labialization, such as labial consonants and liquids, are written as velarized in this environment.

Next post will cover the development of the script in later Ansai languages, in particular Undreve.

_________________
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that

Formerly known as Primordial Soup

Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:18 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:02 pm
Posts: 779
Location: Brussels
Nice! I like it when people come up with orthographies that make 'historical' sense.

So, since you don't talk much about the sound changes from Proto-Ansai, I'd like to know what those example words would have looked like. Are they in any way similar to what the syllabary* spells out? And would there be much potential ambiguity due to the lack of marking of the 'fake' vowels?

___
*I called it a syllabary, but I guess it's kind of an abugida-syllabary hybrid

_________________
— o noth sidiritt Tormiott


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:47 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:41 am
Posts: 437
Location: Davis, CA

_________________
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that

Formerly known as Primordial Soup

Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:43 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:28 pm
Posts: 364


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:11 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:41 am
Posts: 437
Location: Davis, CA

_________________
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that

Formerly known as Primordial Soup

Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:46 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:28 pm
Posts: 364


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:42 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:41 am
Posts: 437
Location: Davis, CA

_________________
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that

Formerly known as Primordial Soup

Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:14 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:28 pm
Posts: 364


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group