zompist bboard

THIS IS AN ARCHIVE ONLY - see Ephemera
It is currently Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:20 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:00 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Image

So this is for a language family I'm developing and the script that is used to write it. I saw something somewhere asking why conlangers didn't use logograms more often. I'm trying to go with it. Help would be appreciated and I apologize for the quality of the drawings as I'm currently using a trackpad.

Basics

What you see at the start of the post is what the language speakers call(ed) themselves—in Common Caber, Caber "the people"—written in Caber logograms. You see the glyph for cabe "person" followed by a collective marker -r. I'm thinking that most of the descriptions of the glyphs, at least in the early stages, will be in Common Caber; I haven't worked out all the sound changes for the daughter languages yet.

The script is currently written top-to-bottom, left to right, though the idea of doing a modified Mayan-style thing with blocks of characters that are read before going to the next block is a possibility, but I'm not sure if I want to do that.

Pronouns

Image

See these symbols above? You're probably going to get a lot of mileage out of them. These are the singular personal pronouns—first, second, and third. To make them plural you simply repeat the glyph (this is how most plurals are marked, actually). These shapes were originally a representation of two people talking and pointing at whatever the referent of the pronoun was (speaker, listener, or somebody else).

An important note that the pronouns help demonstrate—the "default" orientation of something is on the right of the glyph, facing left.

Sound complements

Sometimes the same base symbol is reused for many different concepts. For example, the base glyph of a square is used for words such as śeư "six" and rubes "ball, sphere, circle" (yes, it uses a square; the design of the script is very angular).

Image

What happens in these cases is that you get a composition of two glyphs, the second of which is a sound complement that tells you what sound the word begins with if it's not the "primary" concept of the glyph. For example, śeư "six" is a composition of the square glyph and the glyph for śocơ (a type of four-legged animal):

Image

A special case: Marking the genitive phrase

The genitive particle fe has a special glyph that extends around the connected NPs. An example is in the phrase "my foot" ("the foot of me"):

Image

Connectives

Image

The connectives, bưf "and", bưcuś "but, except", and śemuc "or" (there is no difference between inclusive and exclusive or). The symbol for bưf comes from two people together; bưcuś, from someone putting up a hand to stop something (note the direction the person in the symbol is facing, which is different from usual); the symbol for śemuc was originally someone looking at two objects, but these were points and reduced to a line.

The first glyph also means "with"; the same word is used for both. Some regions have another reading for the second glyph, ec "NEGATIVE", though ec typically has its own symbol.

Negatives

Image

The symbol ec "NEGATIVE" gets a lot of mileage and is often used as a shorthand for other words dealing with negatives (nothing, no one). I actually basically took the Egyptian hieroglyphic solution for the negative and adapted it for use here.

Numbers

Image

From left to right, top to bottom: mưgưi "zero", bưćơ "one", bơći "two", ǵeśac "three", račboć "four", ơ "five", śeư "six".

Samples

Image

Left to right, top to bottom: seśo "hand", bosa "water", ćơ "fire", čư "tree", ru "give", ruơa "pole", ča "wind", eseć "hear", bưbư "see", and ota "take".

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:51 pm 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:50 pm
Posts: 214
Location: (x, y, z, t)
Quite excellent. Really like the histories and all the little details.

When multiple glyphs are combined, as with the sound complements, are they always arranged half and half vertically or are there other arrangements?

Neat use of space with the wrapping glyph for the genitive. Might you also do that for adpositions like "inside"?

Is that negative glyph a depiction of someone shrugging? Not familiar with hieroglyphics but that's what it looks like at a glance.

Do those numerals mean that the counting system is base six? (my personal fave)

Of the samples, my favorite glyph is probably "wind"; I like how you've captured a sense of fluidity within the rather angular structure.

"Give" and "take" are good illustrations of directionality; I would imagine we'd see similar pairs for "come" and "go" and such?

Bit curious for more details on "pole", "hear", and "see", they're a bit more opaque to me than the others.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:17 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Sevly wrote:
Quite excellent. Really like the histories and all the little details.

:-D Thank you!

Sevly wrote:
When multiple glyphs are combined, as with the sound complements, are they always arranged half and half vertically or are there other arrangements?

Currently it's only half-and-half vertically. I may make horizontal compositions for more sort of abstract symbols.

Sevly wrote:
Neat use of space with the wrapping glyph for the genitive. Might you also do that for adpositions like "inside"?

I hadn't thought of that, but that's a wonderful idea. I wasn't sure how to handle those.

Sevly wrote:
Is that negative glyph a depiction of someone shrugging? Not familiar with hieroglyphics but that's what it looks like at a glance.

Yes, the idea is from the Egyptian hieroglyph (which is just a pair of arms).

Sevly wrote:
Do those numerals mean that the counting system is base six? (my personal fave)

Yes!

Sevly wrote:
Of the samples, my favorite glyph is probably "wind"; I like how you've captured a sense of fluidity within the rather angular structure.

:-D

Sevly wrote:
"Give" and "take" are good illustrations of directionality; I would imagine we'd see similar pairs for "come" and "go" and such?

Another thing that I hadn't thought of, but makes a lot of sense.

Sevly wrote:
Bit curious for more details on "pole", "hear", and "see", they're a bit more opaque to me than the others.

The symbol for ruơa "pole" is someone holding a pole (otherwise it'd be just a line). The symbol for eseć "hear" was originally a drawing of someone holding a hand up to their ear which was simplified a bit. The symbol for bưbư "see" is someone holding their hand above their face, like they were blocking out the sun or something.

More Examples

Image

Top row: "kick", čengac "smell", ơgoc "leg", nici "spine", nuơc "road"
Second row: rưsaco "break, split", ćưiu "fall", ćưa "QUESTION", hưr "speak, say", besrơ "mountain"
Third row: ba "DEFINITE", cać "think", "boat", caơ "bean", śuśo "drop"
Fourth row: ǧatfum "walk", ǧubśư "place, area", cưgrưni "knot", [several words] "RELATIVE", huśơ "vine"
Bottom row: mačư "throw, toss", ćưcơ "ramp, inclined plane", ưbacư "screw", reśu "twist; weave", mesơ "bed, mattress"

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:09 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
More Glyphs

Image

First row: mačư "hammer, (tool)", ćucơh "chain", to "comb", čo "teach", goč "learn"
Second row: atobmơ "willow tree", cưfe "shield", usić "bow", cơhahe "arrow", tơhư "dig"
Third row: du "crop(s)", "bone", ưmư "paint, write", ? "hatchet, axe", ? "paintbrush"
Fourth row: ? "measure", ? "welcome", ? "call to, address", hoc "knife, dagger", [verb endings] "PAST"

Mačư "hammer, (tool)" is a result of semantic drift; originally it meant "tool" in general but eventually came to specifically to refer to a hammer. The "tool" sense is behind its inclusion in such symbols as the one for "paintbrush". Conceptual complements generally appear to the right of a glyph, as demonstrated with "paintbrush", and often have no bearing on actual pronunciation, instead acting as sort of a hint as to the semantic aspect of a concept.

The past-tense marker is a stylized sunset. I think the idea behind it was that it implied "yesterday" and so indicated the past.

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:08 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Image

First row: otgoć "hit, fight with", cohiǧ "trade", ćơću "thundercloud", repću "speak, say", "(do) work"
Second row: ośćiǧ "defend", cưg "well", tưoro "yoke", sơdri "bounce", hươb "type of insect"

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:01 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Image

First row: sơsưs "baby, infant", pe "cane, walking stick", pơg "arm", rưǵo "rule", sućumi "knee"
Second row: baǵo "elbow", śobe "wrist", sưgư "heel (of foot)", rohco "coil of rope", ǵunud "stone, block"
Third row: ǵơuć "again", ǵơ "trip", guo "wipe", ưčo "eye", idhơs "sun"
Fourth row: ǵeću "chase", sưcćơ "play (string instrument)", hiem "play (wind instrument)", ohi "beat (drum)", ućur "road"

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:43 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Prepositions

Image

So prepositions typically border the NP they govern. The dot represents some glyph or series thereof. From top to bottom:

ćupo "to the side of"
ucśơ "over, above"
ưćan "under, below"
gouh "around, surrounding"
copa "inside"

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:24 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Image

First row: ip "man", soćur "woman", ćơr "give birth", ǵơn "die"
Second row: "rain", rigǵi "snow", nưcin "sand", ruǵuc "task"
Third row: śore "ear", "rob, steal", ǵon "murder", cươc "spear"
Fourth row: rośi "quiver (arrows)", "smash, break", me "go, leave", ci "arrive, get somewhere"

The glyph for ǵơn "die" is a dead body resting on a bier or a pyre or something. Nưcin "sand" is supposed to represent some small dunes. The glyph for ruǵuc "task" is the glyph for "ponder" with a sound complement. "rob, steal" is the thief standing over the dude he mugged.

(Ip "man" is a bit of an Easter egg.)

The semantics of me "go" and ci "get somewhere" are a bit different from how they work in English—instead of referring to the hearer's reference, the verbs instead refer to the speaker's reference. (I got this from Farr, Cynthia J. M. (1976), "I Don't Know Whether I'm Coming or Going: A Study of Some Usages of 'Come' and 'Go' in Korafe". Kivung 9(2):126 – 155.)

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:57 pm 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:50 pm
Posts: 214
Location: (x, y, z, t)
Really liking these so far! Love those prepositions :=)

Do you have any sort of general rules or conventions that you would note in terms of the style? It has this sort of sparse triangular aesthetic.

Along those lines my first reaction to du "crop(s)" is that I might expect it to be more stylized; it seems more dense than the average. Similar feeling with rigǵi "snow" and the tail end of cơhahe "arrow". Just a YMMV comment though.

Favorites so far are sơdri "bounce", where you can just see the pen tracing the arc of a ball, "welcome", which is like a warm hug, and, of course, ča "wind", which is still just awesome.

Keep 'em coming!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:16 am 
Niš
Niš

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:35 pm
Posts: 2
I'm pretty sure ruǵuc doesn't mean "task", but rather "missile launcher"

_________________
Theme, †Tematitu, Senouba (nl, en)[de, jp]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:52 am 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:48 am
Posts: 2144
Location: Britannia
It obviously means "telescope"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:06 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Sevly wrote:
Really liking these so far! Love those prepositions :=)
:-D

Sevly wrote:
Do you have any sort of general rules or conventions that you would note in terms of the style? It has this sort of sparse triangular aesthetic.
Yes, I'm going for more angular than smooth here. The triangular aesthetic came from the stylized people, I think.

Sevly wrote:
Along those lines my first reaction to du "crop(s)" is that I might expect it to be more stylized; it seems more dense than the average. Similar feeling with rigǵi "snow" and the tail end of cơhahe "arrow". Just a YMMV comment though.
I can see where you're coming from on that. I don't mind complex glyphs as long as I think they can fit in with the overall aesthetic, if that makes sense. (Since you mentioned it, cơhahe "arrow" might end up getting some reduction.) There's probably going to be more dense glyphs coming as I try to figure out ways to represent other concepts (or loanwords).

Sevly wrote:
Favorites so far are sơdri "bounce", where you can just see the pen tracing the arc of a ball, "welcome", which is like a warm hug, and, of course, ča "wind", which is still just awesome.
:-D

EratoNysiad wrote:
I'm pretty sure ruǵuc doesn't mean "task", but rather "missile launcher"
KathTheDragon wrote:
It obviously means "telescope"
LOL!

On the CBB, shimobaatar wrote:
Would it be possible to see some example sentences/phrases using the prepositions?

Image
Ba ip copa ba ćơ mačư ba ǵunud.
DEF man into DEF fire throw DEF stone
"The man throws the stone into the fire."

Image
Cơap ćupo ba cưg otgoć ba ip.
3SG.M next.to DEF well fight.with DEF man
"He fights with the man next to the well" (that is, the location of the fighting is next to the well)

A note on third-person pronouns

The default third-person pronoun is cơap, used for males. The female pronoun is osćo; if this pronoun is intended, the symbol for "woman" immediately follows the pronoun glyph.

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:39 am 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 3:42 pm
Posts: 231
Location: The Lost Land of Suburbia (a.k.a. Harrogate, UK)
I like these, too. What technology do your people use to write it, though? I imagine the angularity comes from something like a stylus on a clay tablet.

_________________
Mohai


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:20 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Ketumak wrote:
I like these, too. What technology do your people use to write it, though? I imagine the angularity comes from something like a stylus on a clay tablet.
Thank you! I actually haven't given that much thought.

Trying something different because my photo editor didn't seem to save the original file:

Image

First row: ćiǧću "because", ǧư "shop, bazaar", pơr "goal, objective", ơćo "fit"
Second row: ćutmem "shirt", gum "pennant, flag", ćeg "jar, vase", ơcưac "palm of the hand"
Third row: edat "finger", enec "follow (logically)", edren "complain", bitan "story, fable"
Fourth row: marǧin "stay, remain", ǧani "put on (clothing)", toćit "beneficial", mep "stand"

The glyph for ǧư "shop, bazaar" was originally a representation of a guy in a tent selling something; pơr "goal, objective" is someone walking towards a flag. The gestures of marǧin "stay, remain" and mep "stand" are supposed to indicate that the person has made up his mind that he's staying put.

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:45 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
The Seven Kill Stele in Caber logograms:

Image

Translation from Wikipedia:
Zhang Xianzhong supposedly wrote:
Heaven brings forth innumerable things to nurture man.
Man has nothing good with which to recompense Heaven.
Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill.

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:08 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Okay, time for more glyphs (including some composite glyphs). I know it's somewhat blurry.

Image

First row: ǧưi "put, set, place", rin "kill", bo "hold", bit "heart", śomar "believe"
Second row: mib "soup", caro "table", iści "mix", emar "kiln, fire pit", miś "(plant) stem"
Third row: tama "give back, give in return", cob "helmet", igo "fly", har "nurture, raise", ưnǧu "snare, trap"
Fourth row: sưnǧu "difficult", robe "hit with the head, headbutt", rośe "glide", rơn "sternum, chest", tocar "rock, buffet"
Fifth row: ǧoso "Caber concept of heaven", čoso "thing", gưćcu "set up", gat "have", rưi "number"

The glyphs for bo "hold" and śomar "believe" are examples of semantic compounds—"hand-put" and "heart-put", respectively, the latter of which was stolen from PIE—as is tama "give back", being the glyph for "give" with a directional arrow added.

All of the words beginning with r are examples of phonetic compounds (even rin "kill", which is a simplified combination of the glyph "murder" and the r-radical), as sưnǧu "difficult" (though with the s-radical).

Also, have a glyph for the preposition bưfec "without":
Image

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:32 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Let's quickly throw out some ideas for a daughter language here.

ɨ → ə / P_
ts dz k g → tɕ dʑ ts dz / _{ɛ,i}
a → ə / _(C)(C){ɔ,ɛ}
{ɔ,ə,ɛ} → a / _ɾ
ɨ → i
VNV → ṼṼ
VN → Ṽ / _C
ɾ → Ø
z → ɾ / V_V
V → Ø / VC_# if both vowels are the same
V → Ø / V_ if both vowels are the same

Ǧoso do śe har caber ru bưfec rưi čosod. [d͜zɔsɔ dɔ ɕɛ xaɾ kabɛɾ ɾu bɨfɛk ɾɨi t͜sɔsɔd] → [d͜zɔs dɔ ɕɛ xa kəba u bəfɛk i t͜sɔsɔd]
Caber gat ec ưǧo not śe bưf śe do ǧoso tama. [kabɛɾ gat ɛk ɨd͜zɔ nɔt ɕɛ bɨf ɕɛ dɔ d͜zɔsɔ tama] → [kəba gat ɛk id͜zɔ nɔt ɕɛ bəf ɕɛ dɔ d͜zɔs tã]
Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. [ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin] → [in in in in in in in]

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:57 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
ɾ → l
x → s / _K
{b,g} d → w l / _#
C[+ fricative] → [+ voiced] / V_V
ts dz tɕ dʑ → s z ɕ ʑ
b → v / V_V
a → ɔ / _{f,v,w,u}
a ɛ → ɔ a / _l
g → j
a → ɛ / _{j,i}
ɔ…"ɔ a…"a ɛ…"ɛ → u…"ɔ ɨ…"a i…"ɛ
u {ɨ,i} → w j / _V
u {ɨ,i} → w j / V_
lj → ʎ / {#,C}_V

Ǧoso do śe har caber ru bưfec rưi čosod. [d͜zɔsɔ dɔ ɕɛ xaɾ kabɛɾ ɾu bɨfɛk ɾɨi t͜sɔsɔd] → [zuzɔ dɔ ɕɛ xɔl kɨval lu bɨvɛk ʎi suzɔl]
Caber gat ec ưǧo not śe bưf śe do ǧoso tama. [kabɛɾ gat ɛk ɨd͜zɔ nɔt ɕɛ bɨf ɕɛ dɔ d͜zɔsɔ tama] → [kɨval jat ɛk ɨzɔ nɔt ɕɛ bɨf ɕɛ dɔ zuzɔ tɨma]
Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. [ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin] → [lin lin lin lin lin lin lin]

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:30 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
ɾ → l
x → s / _K
{b,g} d → w l / _#
C → [+ voiced] / V_V
{ts,tɕ} {dz,dʑ} → t d
Vm Vn → Ṽw Ṽɾ
u ɔ → ɨ ə / _C[+ alveolar]
V → Ø / {C,V}{w,l,V}_
k g → ɕ ʑ / E_
ə ɛ → ɨ i / _l

Ǧoso do śe har caber ru bưfec rưi čosod. [d͜zɔsɔ dɔ ɕɛ xaɾ kabɛɾ ɾu bɨfɛk ɾɨi t͜sɔsɔd] → [dəzɔ dɔ ɕɛ xal kavil lu bɨvɛɕ lɨ təzɨl]
Caber gat ec ưǧo not śe bưf śe do ǧoso tama. [kabɛɾ gat ɛk ɨd͜zɔ nɔt ɕɛ bɨf ɕɛ dɔ d͜zɔsɔ tama] → [kavil gat ɛɕ ɨdɔ nət ɕɛ bɨf ɕɛ dɔ dəzɔ tãw]
Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. [ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin] → [lĩɾ lĩɾ lĩɾ lĩɾ lĩɾ lĩɾ lĩɾ]

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:15 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
a → ɔ / _K
b → w / V_V
{ɨ,ə} → Ø / E_K
C → [+ voiced] / #_
{t͜s,t͜ɕ} {d͜z,d͜ʑ} → tɾ dɾ
m → b
VR → RV / _#
VCV → VC[+ voiced] / _#
n → Ø / ɾ_
V[+ high]V[+ high] → V[+ mid]C[+ glide]
Stress shifts to the first closed syllable, otherwise it remans on the final syllable

Ǧoso do śe har caber ru bưfec rưi čosod. [d͜zɔsɔ dɔ ɕɛ xaɾ kabɛɾ ɾu bɨfɛk ɾɨi t͜sɔsɔd] → [dɾɔz dɔ ʑɛ ɣɾa ˈgawɾɛ ɾu bɨˈfɛk ɾəj dɾɔˈsɔd]
Caber gat ec ưǧo not śe bưf śe do ǧoso tama. [kabɛɾ gat ɛk ɨd͜zɔ nɔt ɕɛ bɨf ɕɛ dɔ d͜zɔsɔ tama] → [ˈgawɾɛ gat ɛk ɨdz nɔt ʑɛ bɨf ʑɛ dɔ dɾɔz dab]
Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. [ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin] → [ɾi ɾi ɾi ɾi ɾi ɾi ɾi]

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:04 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
I'm thinking of having the name of this people group translate to "Mute People", sort of like how the Slavic name for Germany derives from the word for "mute". This language is quite a bit different from Common Caber.

b → w
{wə,wɛ} {wɨ,wi} → ɔ u
x {m,n,s,ɾ} → Ø ʔ / _C
f s ɕ x → m n ɲ ŋ / #_
ɾ → n / {#,V}_
{s,ɾ} → h
Vʔ → V[+ falling tone] / {#,C}_
V → Ø / V_ʔ
VV → Vː → V[+ high tone]
VhV → V[+ rising tone]
{ts,tɕ} {dz,dʑ} → t d
ɕ → s

Ǧoso do śe har caber ru bưfec rưi čosod. [d͜zɔsɔ dɔ ɕɛ xaɾ kabɛɾ ɾu bɨfɛk ɾɨi t͜sɔsɔd] → [dɔ̌ dɔ̀ ɲɛ̀ ŋàn kán ùfɛ̀k nɨ́ tɔ̌d]
Caber gat ec ưǧo not śe bưf śe do ǧoso tama. [kabɛɾ gat ɛk ɨd͜zɔ nɔt ɕɛ bɨf ɕɛ dɔ d͜zɔsɔ tama] → [kán gàt ɛ̀k ɨ̀dɔ̀ nɔ̀t ɲɛ̀ ùf ɲɛ̀ dɔ̀ dɔ̌ tàmà]
Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. [ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin] → [nìn nìn nìn nìn nìn nìn nìn]

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Last edited by Pogostick Man on Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:08 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
This was all done without the use of a sound change applier, so hopefully I didn't mess it up too badly.

cabe "person" > kəbɛ : kɔvɛ : kabɛ : gawrɛ : ká
caber "people (collective)" > kəbar : kɔval : kabil : gawli : kán
rubes "ball, sphere, circle" > rubɛs : luvɛs : lubɛs : luwɛs : núh
fe "of" > fɛ : fɛ : fɛ : fɛ : mɛ̀
bưf "and" > bəf : bəf : bəf : bɨf : wɨ̀f
bưcuś "but, except" > bəkuɕ : bəkuɕ : bɨgɨɕ : bɨkɨɕ : wɨ̀kɨ̀s
ec "NEGATIVE" > ɛk : ɛk : ɛɕ : ɛk : ɛ̀k
śemuc "or" > ɕɛ̃ũk : ɕɛmuk : ɕɛ̃wk : ʑɛbuk : ɲɛ̀mùk
mưgưi "zero" > mədzi : mɨjɨj : mɨgɨi : mɨgəj : mɨ̀gɨ́
bưćơ "one" > bətɕə : bɨɕə : bɨtə : bɨdrə : wɨ̀tə̀
bơći "two" > bətɕi : bəɕi : bəti : bətri : wə̀tì
ǵeśac "three" > dʑɛɕak : ʑɛʑak : dɛʑak : drɛɕak : dɛ̀sàk
račboć "four" > rətsbotɕ : lasbɔɕ : latbət : latrbot : nàtwɔ̀t
ơ "five" > ə : ə : ə : ə : ə̀
śeư "six" > ɕɛi : ɕɛj : ɕɛɨ : ʑɛj : ɲɛ́
seśo "hand" > sɛɕɔ : sɛʑɔ : sɛʑɔ : zɛʑ : nɛ̀sɔ̀
bosa "water" > bɔsa : bɔza : bəza : bɔz : wɔ̌
ćơ "fire" > tɕə : ɕə : tə : trə : tə̀
čư "tree" > tsi : sɨ : tɨ : trɨ : tɨ̀
ru "give" > ru : lu : lu : ru : nù
ruơa "pole" > ruəa : lwəa : luə : ruəa : núà
ča "wind" > tsa : sa : ta : tra : tà
eseć "hear" > ɛsɛtɕ : izɛɕ : ɛzɛt : ɛzɛt : ɛ̌t
bưbư "see" > bəbə : bɨvɨ : bɨbɨ : bɨw : wɨ̀wɨ̀
ota "take" > ɔta : ɔta : əda : ɔd : ɔ̀tà
"kick" > də : də : də : də : də̀
čengac "smell" > tɕɛ̃gak : sɛngak : tĩlgak : trɛngak : tɛ̂gàk
ơgoc "leg" > əgɔk : əgɔk : əgɔk : əgɔk : ə̀gɔ̀k
nici "spine" > nitsi : niki : niʑi : niʑ : nìkì
nuơc "road" > nuək : nwək : nuək : nuək : núk
rưsaco "break, split" > risəkɔ : lɨzakɔ : lɨzagɔ : lɨsag : nɨ̌kɔ̀
ćưiu "fall" > tɕiu : ɕjiw : tɨiu : tɨju : tɨ́ù
ćưa "QUESTION" > tɕia : ɕja : tɨa : tɨa :
hưr "speak, say" > xir : xil : xɨl : xɨr : ŋɨ̀n
besrơ "mountain" > bɛsra : bɛslə : bɛslə : bɛsrə : wɛ̂hə̀
ba "DEFINITE" > ba : ba : ba : ba : wà
cać "think" > katɕ : kaɕ : kat : kat : kàt
"boat" > nə : nə : nə : nə : nə̀
caơ "bean" > kaə : kaə : kaə : kaə : ká
śuśo "drop" > ɕuɕɔ : ɕuʑɔ : ɕɨʑɔ : ɕuʑ : ɲùsɔ̀
ǧatfum "walk" > dzatfum : zatfum : datfũw : tratfub : tàtfùm
ǧubśư "place, area" > dzubɕi : zubɕɨ : dubʑɨ : trubɕu : tùwsɨ̀
cưgrưni "knot" > kigɾĩ : kɨglɨni : kɨgli : kɨgrɨn : kɨ̀ghɨ̀nì
huśơ "vine" > xuɕə : xuʑə : xɨʑə : xuʑ : xùsə̀
mačư "throw, toss" > matsi : masi : maz : màtɨ̀
ćưcơ "ramp, inclined plane" > tɕikə : ɕɨkə : tɨgə : trɨg : tɨ̀kə̀
ưbacư "screw" > ibaki : ɨvakɨ : ɨbagɨ : ɨwag : ɨ̀wàkɨ̀
reśu "twist; weave" > rɛɕu : lɛʑu : lɛʑu : rɛʑ : nɛ̀sù
mesơ "bed, mattress" > mɛsə : mɛzə : mɛzə : mɛz : mě

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:04 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Apologies for the angle on this; I was at a restaurant, writing on the back of the disposable place setting, and I didn't want my shadow to cover the glyphs:

Image

Top row: śimo "friend", calau "grip", garưp "claw", mưś "impale"
Bottom row: omesơ "stick", co "cattle, cow", ača "snail", śimobatar "friendship"

Also, two I just thought up but have no glyphs for: maś "pit", ćưcư "red".

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:33 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
A new daughterlang based on Mexico City Spanish of the late 1800s (based largely on Marden, Charles Carroll (1896), "The Phonology of the Spanish Dialect of Mexico City". PMLA 11(1):85 – 150, and on my own [limited] knowledge of Spanish).

(t)ɕ (d)ʑ → x ɣ
ə ɨ → ɛ i
ts dz → s z
p → f
b → Ø / #_
f → h / ! _{u,w}{ɛ,i}
b → Ø / _C ! _l
d → Ø / a_{ɔ,a}
d → Ø / _#
d → l / _m
d → g / _r
ɣ → j / _ɛ
ɣ → w
s → z / _C[+ voiced]
k g → s z / _E
ɛ → Ø / i_
u → Ø / _{ɔ,ɛ}
ɛ → i / _C"V
i → ɛ / _(C)"i
ɔ → w / _"V
ɔ ɛ → u i / _{l,ɾ}
s → Ø / _#{l,ɾ}
x → Ø / #_
h → Ø
n{j,i} → ɲ / _V
n → ŋ / _#
n → Ø / _{s,x}C
g → Ø / _{u,w}{ɔ,a}
K → Ø / ! w
{k,g} → j / {a,ɛ}_{t,d,ts,dz,s,z}
{k,g} → Ø / _{t,d,ts,dz,s,z}
g → Ø / _n
ɾ → Ø / _#
b d g → β ð ɣ / V_V
Two identical high vowels in a row drop one
High vowels next to a nonhigh vowel become glides
Two high vowels in a row turn the unstressed one into a glide

If I did this right, this is how the Seven Kill Stele should develop:

Common Caber:
Ǧoso do śe har caber ru bưfec rưi čosod. [dzɔsɔ dɔ ɕɛ xaɾ kabɛɾ ɾu bɨfɛk rɨi tsɔsɔd]
Caber gat ec ưǧo not śe bưf śe do ǧoso tama. [kabɛɾ gat ɛk ɨdzɔ nɔt ɕɛ bɨf ɕɛ dɔ dzɔsɔ tama]
Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. [ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin ɾin]

Central Caber:
Zoso do e a cabi ru iek rei soso. [zɔsɔ dɔ ɛ a caβi ɾu jɛk ɾɛj sɔsɔ]
Cabi gat ec izo not e i e do zoso tama. [kaβi gat ɛk izɔ nɔt ɛ i ɛ dɔ zɔsɔ tama]
Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. [ɾiŋ ɾiŋ ɾiŋ ɾiŋ ɾiŋ ɾiŋ ɾiŋ]

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caber Logograms
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:57 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio
Again, I did this without the use of a sound change applier, so hopefully my mistakes were minimal.

cabe "person" > cabe [kaβɛ]
caber "people (collective)" > cabi [kaβi]
rubes "ball, sphere, circle" > rubes [ɾuβɛs] (rube [ruβɛ] when the following word begins with /ɾ/)
fe "of" > e [ɛ]
bưf "and" > i [i]
bưcuś "but, except" > icuj [ikux]
ec "NEGATIVE" > ec [ɛk]
śemuc "or" > imuc [imuk]
mưgưi "zero" > mizei [mizɛj]
bưćơ "one" > ije [ixɛ]
bơći "two" > eji [ɛxi]
ǵeśac "three" > ijac [ixak]
račboć "four" > razboc [ɾazbɔk]
ơ "five" > e [ɛ]
śeư "six" > i [i]
seśo "hand" > sijo [sixɔ]
bosa "water" > osa [ɔsa]
ćơ "fire" > e [ɛ]
čư "tree" > si [si]
ru "give" > ru [ɾu]
ruơa "pole" > ruia [ɾuja]
ča "wind" > sa [sa]
eseć "hear" > isej [isɛx]
bưbư "see" > ibi [iβi]
ota "take" > ota [ɔta]
"kick" > de [dɛ]
čengac "smell" > singac [siŋgak]
ơgoc "leg" > igoc [iɣɔk]
nici "spine" > nesi [nɛsi]
nuơc "road" > nec [nɛk]
rưsaco "break, split" > risaco [risakɔ]
ćưiu "fall" > iu [ju]
ćưa "QUESTION" > ia [ja]
hưr "speak, say" > i [i]
besrơ "mountain" > ezre [ɛzɾɛ]
ba "DEFINITE" > a [a]
cać "think" > caj [kax]
"boat" > ne [nɛ]
caơ "bean" > cai [kaj]
śuśo "drop" > ujo [uxɔ]
ǧatfum "walk" > zatum [zatum]
ǧubśư "place, area" > zuji [zuxi]
cưgrưni "knot" > zigreni [zigɾɛni]
huśơ "vine" > uji [uxi]
mačư "throw, toss" > masi [masi]
ćưcơ "ramp, inclined plane" > ize [izɛ]
ưbacư "screw" > ibasi [iβasi]
reśu "twist; weave" > riju [ɾixu]
mesơ "bed, mattress" > mise [misɛ]

_________________
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group