[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 379: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 379: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4752: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4754: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4755: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4756: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
zompist bboard :: View topic - Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (beta)
zompist bboard
http://www.incatena.org/

Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (beta)
http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44883
Page 1 of 2

Author:  tiramisu [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (beta)


Author:  tiramisu [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

The next post will be a while coming. It took nearly two days to put this first post together for you. It's still sloppy and incomplete, and needs a lot of editing and improvement still. I have some regrets, since I expected the total project to be a one-day project when I began, and now I either have to fulfill it to completion or abandon something I spent a lot of time in.

So, I probably won't even begin writing the next post until I see that this is actually helpful for people. I'm almost afraid it's not simple enough.

Please do let me know of any issues in the post, which was composed in BBCode in a word processor, as well as any suggestions or comments or questions.

Author:  alice [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  mèþru [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

I have plans for a vowel-root language and this will definitely help me with that (I'm working on other stuff currently).

Author:  Salmoneus [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

I'm not sure that it is unrealistic to just throw in random vowels.

If your only knowledge of IE languages were English, would you really immediately see our vowel alternations as the result of regular processes, or would they just look random?

I have to take issue with the claim that metathesis "is where infixes come from". Many, many infixes in world languages have not been demonstrated to have derived from any source. And even if we assume that all infixation must derive from a non-infixing source, it needn't be through metathesis. We might also imagine, for example, a process similar to English tmetic expletives, which derive from stress-based analogy; or, we might imagine the fusion of a previously prefixed (or suffixed) element, such as an old gender marker or the like, trapping another affix as an infix.

You might also want to explain why you're using so much circumfixion, which isn't exactly a common default way of deriving such basic things as "patient". And certainly in the case of "profession", which isn't a basic grammatical operation, it might be worth explaining where that came from, diachronically?

Author:  mèþru [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  tiramisu [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  Salmoneus [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  tiramisu [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

Thanks for your input.

Glad, also, that your response to my draft of something this community has been lacking for a long time is "Don't bother. I'll create a better example for people to follow one day, maybe" instead of "I would have taken a different approach, but here's some constructive feedback on your approach." As I've already said a couple of times, there is not just one way to go about it, but people certainly are looking for (and needing) guidance on how to go about it. Certainly you are not one of these people looking for direction -- you not only already have an idea of how you would go about it, but also you are more well-read, and more knowledgeable than most people on this forum, who tend to be much younger and less studied than you. Hopefully the fact that I did it differently than you would have preferred does not mean the time I put forth in putting this together was in vain or that what I did do was poorly crafted, meriting the abandonment you so freely and perhaps unthinkingly suggested.

Author:  Salmoneus [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  mèþru [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

Well I added almost of the music links to my playlist, and it gave me ideas for one of projects. So thanks! A lot of the time after reading I great post I just don't think of saying thanks or I can't think of anything to write that doesn't sound lame. But I reaally liked your posts, and I really liked tiramisu's (even the ones where we argued politics, because even if it ruined my mood, it made me think critically about my own views and practice debating)

Author:  tiramisu [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  Salmoneus [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

Wait, that's what you didn't like? I said that was tongue-in-cheek! And it's obviously, I thought, not denigrating your guide at all, because your guide doesn't address not making a language like the one you're making. My comment was thus intended as an addendum, not a correction. As I said, I think that guides like this can be valuable. I just think that people should read them bearing in mind that they're not just narrow guides to construct a specific language, they also can be applied more broadly. In the same way that if you were writing a guide on composing canons, I'd point out that one didn't have to just use that to compose strict canons, one could also apply those techniques to enrich compositions in other, less rigid genres. Non-concatenative morphology and counterpoint more broadly are more interesting, in my view, than a priori pseudo-semitic languages and strict canon - but of course that shouldn't be taken to abnegate the value of guides to the latter as a way of understanding the former - indeed, they should expand their interest (because you don't have to want to make a semitic language to be able to gain something from understanding semitic languages). Even Mozart read Gradus ad Parnassum (I think?). But if you found the comment rude, of course I'm sorry about that.


[methru: thanks. And don't worry - we none of us are good enough at being supportive of one another, so no blame attaches to anyone in particular. But feel free to share, over in that thread, what you liked and didn't like...]

Author:  alice [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

This idea came to me when I was trying to sleep, so it probably isn't the greatest ever, but: how about showing an example of a triconsonantal conlang derived from (a necessarily tweaked version of) PIE, or something like Latin?

Author:  mèþru [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

That sounds like a great idea!

Author:  tiramisu [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  Zaarin [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  WeepingElf [ Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

I should try to develop a triconsonantal root language from PIE some day. Well, some day. I have enough other things to wrap my mind around already.

Author:  tiramisu [ Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  Élerhe [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

I found this incredibly interesting, and will be sure to use the ideas here if I ever plan a language such as this. I'll definitely bear this in mind. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

Élerhe

Author:  Richard W [ Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  KathTheDragon [ Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

If by "failed attempt" you mean "developed ablaut but didn't happen to undergo the developments that generalise it" then sure. But "failed attempt" is loaded af for that.

Author:  Zaarin [ Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be

Also, fricatives haven't affected Semitic's triconsonantal system: begadkefet hasn't made Hebrew or Aramaic lose their tricon system, wholesale p > f hasn't caused Arabic or late Neo-Punic to lose their tricon system, even losing all the laryngeal consonants didn't cause Akkadian to lose its tricon system (with the obvious exception that words with laryngeals became biconsonantal...). Also NB that Ancient Greek had a very minimal fricative inventory of /s h/ and was no closer to being tricon than Germanic.

Author:  GreenBowTie [ Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Author:  Richard W [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tutorial: Making a Realistic Triconsonantal Language (be


Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/