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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:20 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:17 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:04 pm 
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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:34 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:13 pm 
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:38 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:54 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:01 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:40 am 
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@Sal: I'm no expert on Islamic culture either; but my impression from reading about other cultures (Islamic, Far Eastern, India, Antiquity) is that seeing women as more important and therefore in need of protection is something that is typical only for a limited period and region (Western Culture, and we can quibble on when exactly that view started to become an important justification for denying rights to women). Maybe it's a bit more farspread, but I doubt that justification is the usual one in other cultures and periods. I don't have the time now to search for all those writings from different cultures and periods where women are described as less valuable, weaker, less intelligent, morally inferior etc., but they're out there (and it's of course a strand of thinking which never totally went away even in the Western justifications of patriarchy).


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:14 pm 
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At 17:22 in , a Pakistani lady (the narrator throughout said documentary) asks the leader of the (I think ) in English why two women have to be witnesses to a crime and only one man, and he says, "This is in order to lessen the burden of this on the women because as the- according to the Islamic principles, the women should give more attention to their homes. We give respect to the women of...We...We prefer them. We give them preferable..."


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:16 pm 
Sanci
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(One day I will be able to start threads on here that don't get suddenly hijacked over a trivial matter)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:29 pm 
Smeric
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I'm sorry, when did it "get suddenly hijacked"? Did you not bring up egalitarian and matriarchal societies? Is it that surprising that a discussion of patriarchy might follow from that?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:36 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:04 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:50 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:01 pm 
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A few tidbits I wanted to show off/jot down:

The three meanings of verbs

An example:

Base verb: EAT (deverbal root: food/meat, the Mfalen assimilate most plant matter very poorly)
Intransitive: have a meal
Transitive: eat something ("you gotta eat to live" would is a deobjective)
Bitransitive: eat something with someone (the bitransitive is frequently comitative or benefactive in meaning, I have not decided if it's considered normal for several options to be possible or if it's more set in stone)

It is a common usage in the more formal registers to coin new usages by using verbs in a valency that is not usual

Base verb: DREAM
Intransitive: sleep (as a result the original verb for sleep refers to other forms of unconsciousness in modern Mfalen)
Transitive: dream about something
Bitransitive: [missing]

An example of a literary bitransitive that became normal usage is "reveal/expose". The bitransitive of that verb came to mean "reveal something that was hidden by something else".

Verbal incorporation

Mfalen does not (oddly enough) allow the incorporation of nouns within a verb, but it does allow incorporation of other verbs. An incorporated verb does not usually bring arguments with it, but rather expresses a mean or a result of the action. While the verb must share subject animacy, the semantic relations between them may vary greatly

lay-punch → punch to the ground
lay-push → shove down/to the ground, tackle
sleep-punch → punch unconscious
open-the-arms--reveal → reveal by throwing curtains open (i.e. inaugurate)
scrape-reveal → reveal by scraping something else away

etc.

In-laws

Traditional Mfalen society doesn't have a concept of in-laws because one of the two spouse is essentially adopted into the other's clan (i.e. come sunder the exclusive authority of that clan's leader for various matters). As such, they refer to their spouse's relatives as though they were their own, whereas the link to their prior relatives is considered to be severed. If there was really a need to refer to these relations, one would talk about one's or one's spouse's former relatives.

However, there has been a rise in popularity of previously rare nonadoptive marriages, and language is still in flux about it. A common way to refer to in-laws in such a marriage is to either refer to them as the relatives of one's spouse, but females in particular find it awkward to use the limited vocabulary available to males. Expressions like "fake cousins" or "new mother" are widely used.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:36 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:49 am 
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