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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:47 am 
Sanci
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Let's make a collab language! How it works is that all aspects of the language will be voted on, and there might be a little history-building involved. For this collab, we'll be making a Romance language descended from British Latin. Any proposals made for any questions will be added as an extra option. Votes will be counted weekly.

1) Will we be following the Spezia-Rimini line?
a) East
b) West
c) No

2) How will this language fare after the Anglo-Saxons attempt to invade?
a) It will exist in isolated pockets, the Anglo-Saxons win.
b) The Anglo-Saxons win, both languages will coexist, each being separate kingdoms.
c) The Romano-British people win, both languages will coexist, each being separate kingdoms.
d) The Anglo-Saxon language will exist in isolated pockets, the Romano-British people win.
e) The Anglo-Saxon language will go extinct, the Romano-British people win.

3) From what Latin term will this language's name be derived?
a) britannicus
b) britanniēnsis
c) britanniānus

4) What will happen to the Brythonic Celtic languages?
a) They will exist in isolated pockets.
b) They will coexist with this language.
c) They will go extinct, their only remnants being loanwords in this language.

You have until 01:00 UTC on Monday, November 6, to vote.


Last edited by gokupwned5 on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:51 am 
Smeric
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If the goal is realism, it should, ideally, be at least 85% identical to this.

So:
1. I vote for a. I don't see how the other options even make sense.
2. only the bottom 3 make sense. Romano-British need to retain their cultural capitals in order for the language to survive. I vote c, because that's the most interesting.
3. I vote for the Vulgar Latin form Brittaniēnsis.
4. I vote for a. Also, the Anglo-Saxon language is so influenced by Celtic that it is essential a mixed language in its early medieval form (probably gets more Germanic than Celtic as time goes on due to foreign influences). Regular Brythonic goes completely extinct in the mixed Saxon-Cetlic area.

The big question is what is the POD? This is what really determines the answers 2-4.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:19 pm 
Avisaru
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1. a
2. c
3. a
4. a

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:48 pm 
Sanci
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1.b
2.e
3.b
4.a

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:10 pm 
Sanno
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mèþru wrote:
If the goal is realism, it should, ideally, be at least 85% identical to this.

So:
1. I vote for a. I don't see how the other options even make sense.

Is this a typo? Of course it makes sense having the language be Western, if it's adjacent to Western languages!
Quote:
2. only the bottom 3 make sense. Romano-British need to retain their cultural capitals in order for the language to survive. I vote c, because that's the most interesting.

IRL, Brythonic did not retains its cultural capitals, yet it still survived.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:57 pm 
Smeric
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It's a typo. I meant b.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:14 pm 
Avisaru
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I think they could behave more like Eastern Romance rather than Western because of the influence of the Germanic languages, which don't tend to have such heavy amount of lenition and elision, and their isolation from the continental Europe.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:28 pm 
Smeric
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1. b
2. b
3. b
4. a

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:23 pm 
Sanci
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Results:

1) Will we be following the Spezia-Rimini line?
This language will be a Western Romance language. The third option (No) was meant to be in case we wanted to make a new branch of Romance that probably would have been a hypothetical North Romance. Kind of like how Sardinian doesn't fall into the category of Eastern or Western Romance.

2) How will this language fare after the Anglo-Saxons attempt to invade?
The Romano-British people beat the Anglo-Saxons. Thus, both languages coexist and have separate kingdoms.

3) From what Latin term will this language's name be derived?
The name of this language will be derived from Vulgar Latin *britanniēnsis. This name would most likely be adopted into English as Britainese

4) What will happen to the Brythonic Celtic languages?
The Brythonic Celtic will exist in isolated pockets in our language's kingdom.

---

New Questions:

5) What are the outcomes of /tʲ dʲ kʲ gʲ/?
a) The phonemes /tʲ kʲ/ merge into /t͡s/, but /dʲ gʲ/ become /d͡ʒ/.
b) The phonemes /tʲ kʲ/ merge into /t͡s/, and /dʲ gʲ/ become /d͡z/.
c) The phonemes /tʲ kʲ/ merge into /t͡ʃ/, and /dʲ gʲ/ become /d͡ʒ/.
d) The phonemes /kʲ gʲ/ become /t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/, but /tʲ dʲ/ become /t͡s d͡z/.
e) Other

6) Will Britainese retain the consonant clusters /mn kn gn nj pl bl tl dl kl gl lj/? If not, what will happen to them?
a) The clusters /mn kn gn nj/ will become /ɲ/, but /pl bl tl dl kl gl lj/ will become /ʎ/.
b) The clusters /mn kn gn/ will become /mn/, /pl bl tl dl kl gl lj/ become /ʎ/, and /nj/ becomes /ɲ/.
c) /pl bl/ > /bl/, while /tl dl kl ɡl lj/ > /ʎ/ except for when /k/ derives from /kʷ/. In that case, /kl/ > /ɡl/ (Proposed by mèþru)
d) Other

7) Should we have a vowel change in open syllables?
a) Yes
b) No

8) It is AD 600 and the Anglo-Saxons have coexisted with us for about a century. Creoda, King of Mercia, offers his daughter, Ēadgȳþ, to our king, Peter, to form a dynastic union. Do we accept?
a) Yes
b) No

You have until 01:00 UTC on Tuesday, November 7, to vote. If the "other" option becomes the most popular one, the question will be voted on again, this time with the old options, and any new proposal made by you guys.


Last edited by gokupwned5 on Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:06 am 
Avisaru
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5. c
6. b
7. a
8. b

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:11 am 
Smeric
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5. a
6. b
7. a
8. a

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:09 pm 
Smeric
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5. c
6. c. /pl bl/ > /bl/, while /tl dl kl ɡl lj/ > /ʎ/ except for when /k/ derives from /kʷ/. In that case, /kl/ > /ɡl/
7. a
8. a, but the union is of crowns only; not of laws and institutions

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:45 pm 
Sanci
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Posts: 31
mèþru wrote:
6. c. /pl bl/ > /bl/, while /tl dl kl ɡl lj/ > /ʎ/ except for when /k/ derives from /kʷ/. In that case, /kl/ > /ɡl/


I like that proposal! Very interesting! I've added it to the list of options.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:10 pm 
Sanci
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5) What are the outcomes of /tʲ dʲ kʲ gʲ/?
The phonemes /tʲ kʲ/ merge into /t͡ʃ/, and /dʲ gʲ/ become /d͡ʒ/.

6) Will Britainese retain the consonant clusters /mn kn gn nj pl bl tl dl kl gl lj/? If not, what will happen to them?
The clusters /mn kn gn/ will become /mn/, /pl bl tl dl kl gl lj/ become /ʎ/, and /nj/ becomes /ɲ/.

7) Should we have a vowel change in open syllables?
Yes, we should have a vowel change in open syllables.

8) It is AD 600 and the Anglo-Saxons have coexisted with us for about a century. Creoda, King of Mercia, offers his daughter, Ēadgȳþ, to our king, Peter, to form a dynastic union. Do we accept?
We will accept the marriage offer, but it will only be a union of crowns, not of laws and culture.
-

New Questions:

9) What sound changes will happen to vowels in open syllables?
a) /i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ > /iː uː eː oː ɛː ɔː aː/
b) /i e ɛ/ > /iu eo ɛa/
c) /i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ > /i u ei ou iə uə æ~iə/
d) /i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ > /iː uː eː oː ɛː ɔː aː/ > /ɛi yː iː uː eː oː aː/ (proposed by ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪)
e) Other

10) What happens to the proto-Romance diphthong /aw/?
a) It becomes /ɔ/.
b) It merges with the open syllable equivalent of /ɔ/.
c) Other.

11) What is the outcome of /mn/?
a) The cluster /mn/ will be retained.
b) It shifts to /n/ word-initially.
c) It shifts to /n/ in all cases.
d) It shifts to /ɲ/ word-initially.
e) It shifts to /ɲ/ in all cases.
f) Other.

12) It is AD 600 and a diplomat from the Frankish Empire arrives. He says that they would like to form an alliance with us. Do we accept?
a) Yes.
b) No.

You have until 01:00 UTC on Wednesday, November 8, to vote.


Last edited by gokupwned5 on Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:51 am 
Niš
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Nice thread! Can't wait to see where this all goes.

9. D
10. A
11. C
12. B

Edit: Changed 9C to 9D, because I like the new proposal.


Last edited by Themasteroflol on Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:38 am 
Avisaru
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9. d
My idea is that:
i :>:> ɪi :> ɛi
u :>:>
e :>:>
o :>:>
ɛ :> ɛː :>
ɔ :> ɔː :>
a :>
I think you could diphthongise /eː oː/ further, but I leave it to you.
10. a
11. a
12. b

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:45 am 
Sanci
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That's a cool proposal! I'll add it now!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:43 am 
Sanci
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9.b
10.a
11.c
12.b

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:22 pm 
Smeric
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9. b
10. a
11. a
12. b

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:08 pm 
Sanci
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9) What sound changes will happen to vowels in open syllables?
The vowels /i e ɛ/ will become /iu eo ɛa/ in open syllables. The other vowels will not change in this environment.

10) What happens to the proto-Romance diphthong /aw/?
The diphthong /aw/ will become /ɔ/.

11) What is the outcome of /mn/?
The cluster /mn/ will be retained.

12) It is AD 600 and a diplomat from the Frankish Empire arrives. He says that they would like to form an alliance with us. Do we accept?
We will not form an alliance with the Frankish Empire.
-

New Questions:

13) What will be the outcome of the Present, Imperfect, Perfect, and Pluperfect tenses of Latin in the Indicative mood?
a) Present, Imperfect, Perfect, Pluperfect > Present, Imperfect, Preterite, Imperfect Subjunctive (Spanish)
b) Present, Imperfect, Perfect, Pluperfect > Present, Imperfect, Preterite, Pluperfect (Portuguese)
c) Present, Imperfect, Perfect, Pluperfect > Present, Imperfect, Past Historic, Ø (Italian)
d) Present, Imperfect, Perfect, Pluperfect > Present, Imperfect, Preterite, Ø (Old French)
e) Other.

14) What will be the outcome of the Future and Future Perfect tenses of Latin in the Indicative mood?
a) They will be lost.
b) The future perfect tense is retained as a future subjunctive.
c) The future tense is retained as a future subjunctive.
d) Other.

15) How will the phoneme /ʃ/ develop?
a) The consonant cluster /sk/ will become /ʃ/ in all positions. (Old English)
b) The consonant cluster /sk/ will become /ʃ/ in all positions. The clusters /skj/, /st͡ʃ/, and /sd͡ʒ/ will also become /ʃ/.
c) The cluster /js/ will become /jʃ/, then shifting to /ʃ/. (Iberian Romance)
d) From /sj~sʲ/.
e) Other.


16) It is AD 601, and Peter I and Ēadgȳþ have their first heir to the throne. What will be the baby’s name and gender?
a) Creoda, in honor of Ēadgȳþ’s father. (Male)
b) Pybba, in honor of Ēadgȳþ’s brother. (Male)
c) Constantine, in honor of Peter’s grandfather. (Male)
d) Conan, in honor of the legendary progenitor of Peter’s dynasty. (Male)
e) Antonia, in honor of Peter’s mother. (Female)
f) Julia (Female)
g) Friþuswiþ (Female)
h) Eoforhild (Female)
i) Other.

17) What will be the outcome of the clusters /jt js/?
a) /jt js/ > /it is/ (results in a series of diphthongs ending in /i/ but any cases of /iuiC eoiC ɛaiC/ will become /iC eiC aiC/)
b) Same as a but /js/ > /jʃ/ (Iberian Romance)
c) Other.

You have until 01:00 UTC on Thursday, November 9, to vote.


Last edited by gokupwned5 on Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:59 pm 
Smeric
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13. d
14. a
15. from [sʲ]
16. c
17. a

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:27 pm 
Smeric
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13. d
14. c
15. b
16. d
17. b

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:42 am 
Avisaru
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13. a
14. b
15. c
16. d
17. b

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:27 am 
Niš
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13. C
14. B
15. B
16. C
17. A


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:49 pm 
Sanci
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13.d
14.a
15.a
16.c
17.a

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