Okay, but what about outside of there?Zaarin wrote:Some variation of /i e o a/ is pretty common in North America.Vijay wrote:I find /i e̞ u ɑ/ more likely than /i e̞ o̞ ɑ/.
Aʻatun Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Off the top of my head I can't think of any four vowel systems outside of North America, though I'm sure they exist; every Old World language I can think of at the moment is either three vowel, five vowel, or "monster Indo-European craziness" vowel. :p NB, though, that most four-vowel systems I can think of are transcribed with either /o/ or /u/ by convention, as there tends to be a lot of allophonic variation between [o] and in such languages, so one might just as well call them /i e o~u a/.Vijay wrote:Okay, but what about outside of there?Zaarin wrote:Some variation of /i e o a/ is pretty common in North America.Vijay wrote:I find /i e̞ u ɑ/ more likely than /i e̞ o̞ ɑ/.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Four vowel systems are very common .... it's just that it's usually /a i u ə/, so it's balanced. /a i u ə/ ,might even be the most common system in the entire world.
Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey says:
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Nah, that would be five-vowel. Old post to the rescue!
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- Lebom
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Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
The working vowel system is below noting my indecision on the mid front vowel's transcription and that having the mid back rounded vowel (/o̞ ⱺ/; last is non-standard but used) felt strange with three unrounded vowels.
Code: Select all
front back
Close i
Mid e̞ ᴇ ɤ̞
Open ɑ
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Not nearly as strange as having no back rounded vowels...
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
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- Lebom
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 11:22 am
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Could [e̞ʋ~ᴇʋ ɑʋ] be considered vowels since [ʋ] takes [w]'s place? If so, would they be rounded or unrounded?
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
I don't think so, sorry.yangfiretiger121 wrote:Could [e̞ʋ~ᴇʋ ɑʋ] be considered vowels since [ʋ] takes [w]'s place?
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- Lebom
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Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Is /[χ]/ more naturally an allophone of /x/ or /h/? Currently, the relationship is /[x→χ]/ adjacent to /ɑ ⱺ/ regardless of syllable coda/mora or another uvular in the same syllable.
Last edited by yangfiretiger121 on Wed May 30, 2018 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
It definitely makes more sense to me for [x] to be an allophone of /x/ than of /h/. (Even if the symbols used for phonemes are arbitrary anyway).
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
This looks like a display issue....some phones can't display the Greek chi symbol so it just appears as a simple x.
No comment/opinion on the question.
No comment/opinion on the question.
Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey says:
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
I'm on a desktop computer, and I don't see any chi's anywhere on this page.
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
[χ] seems more likely to be an allophone of /x/ than /h/ if both /x h/ are phonemic; if not, either one of them could have some pretty broad-ranging allophones (as for example in Japanese or Finnish).yangfiretiger121 wrote:Is /χ/ more naturally an allophone of /x/ or /h/? Currently, the relationship is /x→χ/ adjacent to /ɑ ⱺ/ regardless of syllable coda/mora or another uvular in the same syllable.
@Vijay: The first symbol in yangfiretiger121's post is definitely chi in my browser.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Aha, it is for me, too, if I use Chrome instead of Mozilla!
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- Lebom
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Re: Altrunian Conlang Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Revised vowel system:
However, words with a consonant immediately followed by <ru>, such as Grut, maintain the uvulars in front of /ʉ/. Thus, ['ɢᴿut] becomes ['ɢᴿʉt].
Code: Select all
front central back
High i ʉ
Mid ᴇ ⱺ
Low ɑ
- Nortaneous
- Sumerul
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Re: Aʻatun Scratchpad: Inventory questions
You can have syllabic labiodental approximant / labiodentalized as a vowel, e.g. Nias. If there are sequences that behave phonologically like diphthongs (what does this mean for your language?) but are phonetically realized as a vowel followed by a labiodental approximant, I would expect /u/ to also be labiodentalized but these sequences could be analyzable as diphthongs.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
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- Lebom
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Re: Aʻatun Scratchpad: Inventory questions
Would [y ɔ] be believable transcriptions of [ᴇʋ ɑʋ] as vowels, or would [ᴇʋ ɑʋ] need different transcriptions?
Is [m n→ɴ] adjacent to back vowels a likely assimilation?
Are [pʃ bʒ] better described as bilabial-postalveolar ([p̱ʃ ḇʒ]) or labiodental-postalveolar ([p̪ʃ b̪ʒ])?
Is [m n→ɴ] adjacent to back vowels a likely assimilation?
Are [pʃ bʒ] better described as bilabial-postalveolar ([p̱ʃ ḇʒ]) or labiodental-postalveolar ([p̪ʃ b̪ʒ])?