Using "disordered speech sounds" as phonemes in my conlang

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Samurai
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Using "disordered speech sounds" as phonemes in my conlang

Post by Samurai »

I've recently started thinking about creating conlings for the world that I'm building. One of the languages is the languages of a race of sentient humanoid rodents. In thinking of ways to make this language very different from any human language I started thinking of using some sounds normally associated with disordered speech as normal phonemes in the language. (There is an IPA chart showing official speech pathology symbols at https://www.internationalphoneticassoci ... A_2016.pdf)

A few sounds that I have been thinking of using as phonemes are:

1. The bidental percussive (This has the IPA symbol of [ʭ]). This is essentially the sound of teeth gnashing. I figured that this would make sense for a race of intelligent rodents. However, thinking about it, I'm not really sure if it would be perceptible enough to be used as a phoneme. Usually a sound has be fairly salient to be a phoneme. Even given the fact that I propose that the rodent race has superior hearing to humans in terms of both decibel and frequency range, I'm still not sure that a bidental percussive could be prominent enough for feature as part of the language.

2. The bidental fricative (IPA symbol of [h̪͆]). This is made be putting your front teeth together and making the /h/ sound. This sound, although rare, is actually used in some languages. According to Wikipedia, it is used as an allophone of [x] in a dialect of Adyghe. Therefore, I can see this as an actual phoneme in the language.

What are your thoughts. It would interesting to here from someone with experience in acoustics or speech pathology.

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Re: Using "disordered speech sounds" as phonemes in my conla

Post by mèþru »

Welcome Samurai! Have some pickles and tea! (It's a tradition for welcoming new members here).
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I would think that they would have a radically throat and mouth structure and therefore radically different sound system.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
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Re: Using "disordered speech sounds" as phonemes in my conla

Post by Élerhe »

Rats make a noise called bruxing when they’re happy - that sounds like repeated teeth scraping/banging

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Re: Using "disordered speech sounds" as phonemes in my conla

Post by Samurai »

Thank you for the pickles and tea. (Interesting tradition)
I would think that they would have a radically throat and mouth structure and therefore radically different sound system.
This is very true; a longer oral and nasal cavity would allow more resonances as well more places of articulation. However, at the same time I want the language to be somewhat pronounceable by humans (especially fellow geeks, if I use it in a role-playing game or a story). Therefore, I plan to gloss over some of the anatomical details. (Is this acceptable to most conlinguists out there, or would it be better if I tried to take all of the details into account and try to work around them?)
Rats make a noise called bruxing when they’re happy - that sounds like repeated teeth scraping/banging
This is exactly what I was thinking of! The question is, would a dental percussive (teeth gnashing/banging) be audible enough to be a phoneme? This is especially relevant if the speaker if some distance from the listener or unable to be seen by the listener. I would imagine a sound would have to be somewhat audible and distinct to be used a phoneme.

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Re: Using "disordered speech sounds" as phonemes in my conla

Post by mèþru »

A human bidental percussive is only audible for me when I am very close to the person. Not really usable beyond something in pragmatics. I think the bidental fricative is usable.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
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Re: Using "disordered speech sounds" as phonemes in my conla

Post by Élerhe »

They are rodents - their hearing could be better than humans.

And my rats bruxed pretty loud - I didn’t have to strain to hear them

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