Happy Things Thread

[----]

Knowledge of basic technical terminology is a classic qualification for fluency under many systems that classify that sort of thing. The idea of being fluent is that you should be able to communicate in a variety of topics that are accessible to the average person, and I would say the components of clothing is an accessible topic to most people. Especially noting that almost everyone regularly wears clothes, and of the people who wear clothes almost all of them are aware that different situations require different kinds of clothes, like big fluffy sweaters made of yarn being more necessary in the colder months.

Also, didn't you ever do arts and crafts as a young child?

[pharazon]

I can certainly imagine that there are plenty of second language English speakers in the US who anyone would call competent but don't know "yarn", though I sort of suspect Risla was thinking of native speakers. In any case sirdanilot's reaction was way over the top... it's not a technical word, native speakers really do all know what "yarn" means even if it's not exactly at the top of the list for non-native speakers learning English. Maybe save that reaction for next time Salmoneus acts shocked when someone doesn't know what a plinth is...

(For comparison, "thrash", "geology", "boon" "smear", "ploy", "liturgy", "teeter", "fuse", "converse", "stroller", "coward", "manifest", "clockwise", "deceptive", "dormant" are some words that appear about as often as "yarn" (according to http://www.wordandphrase.info/frequencyList.asp).)

[Risla]

I would expect every competent English speaker to know what 'yarn' means.

Let me guess, are you one of those semi-monolingual Americans or British who only know a bit of French and Spanish in passing and who cannot imagine that not everyone in the world speaks perfect English? Because you sure do sound like one.

no but thanks for trying. By 'competent' I did in fact mean native speaker or native-like competence, I probably should have said 'fluent'. Also, good grief, no wonder everyone on this board seems constantly irritated with you.

And I don't need to know because nobody f*in cares about yarn.

well, you apparently care enough to get disproportionately upset about it

[sirdanilot]

also hey have you considered that non-natives considering themselves competent are largely not competent

Which is also extremely arrogant and anglo-centric. But hey, the world has only gotten better from arrogant, anglo-centric, 'Murrican imperialism now hasn't it, so please do carry on.

Risla: you said competent, not native. That you now mean native somewhat improves your message, but it's not what you said at first.

Also, didn't you ever do arts and crafts as a young child?

Yes I did, I used to know how to knit and crochet (I think? dutch 'haken'), though obviously I have no idea how to do that anymore. But why would that mean that I know all arts and crafts related terms in English, or any L2 speaker of English for that matter? And I dare to say that I am probably well above average in English compared to other L2 speakers in at least the Netherlands (where the vast majority is proficient in English as their L2).

I am probably more proficient in English than you will ever be in any L2 you might have learned, unless you have spent half your life in an area where that L2 is spoken or something. I dare to say this because there is so much immersion and exposure to English compared to most other languages. And even then I don't know many of these basic technical terms, unless they are in a domain I am interested in such as cooking.

[Hallow XIII]

It's anglo-centric? Look, pancakefucker, if you can't speak the language you can't speak the language, regardless of whether it's English or Dutch or Chinese. And who fucking cares if you're

probably well above average in English compared to other L2 speakers in at least the Netherlands

given that English Is Not Spoken In The Netherlands, which I am sure you will agree with me on.

I mean hey let's consider the question of whether you can be a competent speaker of Dutch without knowing the words for some fundamental Dutch cultural items that nobody who isn't Dutch gives the slightest shit about. I'd say no, but from your behavior I must assume you consider the question to be decided on some sort of extended international Swadesh list. Points for your commitment to diversity.

[sirdanilot]

It's anglo-centric? Look, pancakefucker,

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha

given that English Is Not Spoken In The Netherlands, which I am sure you will agree with me on.

English is certainly spoken in the Netherlands continuously in al sorts of domains. Have you been to Amsterdam? In the center you will be hard pressed to find any Dutch really, all English. I know many friends who constantly code-switch between English and Dutch (though I personally avoid this usually). English in the Netherlands is probably spoken more than, for example, Irish in Ireland.

Everyone who is higher educated is bilingual in English and Dutch and their level of English is usually quite high (although not always fluent, especially writing and speaking are difficult). Even people who are lower-educated are often able to speak some English, even young people at high schools, though their level of English is quite bad in terms of speaking and writing (but they can understand it mostly passively). Many older people know little or no English, though, mostly in rural areas of lower education levels. I bet the level of English proficiency overall is higher than in most other Western countries, with the exception of Scandinavian countries.

I mean hey let's consider the question of whether you can be a competent speaker of Dutch without knowing the words for some fundamental Dutch cultural items that nobody who isn't Dutch gives the slightest shit about. I'd say no, but from your behavior I must assume you consider the question to be decided on some sort of extended international Swadesh list. Points for your commitment to diversity.

Yarn and spindle aren't terms that are crucial in order to employ the English language in the 21st century. Nor are 'garen' and 'garenklos' or 'spinrokken' in Dutch. That the list of fundamental words in languages isn't equal for all languages is of course a given. Knowing Dutch without knowing 'gezellig' will be quite difficult. But these culturally salient words are often picked up soon enough.

[Risla]

Risla: you said competent, not native. That you now mean native somewhat improves your message, but it's not what you said at first.

I mean it's not my problem if you also don't understand the nuances of how a native speaker might use the word 'competent'

I am probably more proficient in English than you will ever be in any L2 you might have learned, unless you have spent half your life in an area where that L2 is spoken or something. I dare to say this because there is so much immersion and exposure to English compared to most other languages. And even then I don't know many of these basic technical terms, unless they are in a domain I am interested in such as cooking.

and you use your ability to discuss non-textile topics in English to overreact on the internet to people talking about yarn. Truly, we should all aspire to be like you.

[Hallow XIII]

The internet is obzhash as fuck again today.

Anyway, sirdanilot, did you even have a point other than <I FEEL INSULTED BECAUSE OF A PASSING INSINUATION I MIGHT NOT BE GREAT AT ENGLISH WHICH CONFLICTS WITH MY EXTREMELY INFLATED SENSE OF SELF-WORTH>

[sirdanilot]

Where did I say I was insulted?

[Hallow XIII]

What explanation do you advance for your flipout on the topic of whether competent speakers of English can generally be expected to know the word "yarn", then

[sirdanilot]

What explanation do you advance for your flipout on the topic of whether competent speakers of English can generally be expected to know the word "yarn", then

This is the internet. This is not about emotions and feelings such as 'being insulted'. I personally don't give a rat's ass.

All I am saying is that the attitude of some people here is very anglo-centric in that they expect learners of English to have perfect command of the language and know very infrequent and unimportant words that have to do with a domain that 99% of the population hardly ever talks about, i.e. making clothes. We live in a modern-day society where all sorts of things are specialized into jobs/hobbies that only a very small specialized subset of the population knows much about. I am not a tailor or a hobbyist who engages in clothe making (with me over 99% of the population probably) and thus have no need to know anything about concepts such as 'spindle', which also means taht you do not need to learn these words when acquiring an L2. The fact that many here don't seem to comprehend this means that those people are incredibly anglo-centric as they except that everyone who learns English does so perfectly and completely. People don't.

[Matrix]

This is the internet. This is not about emotions and feelings such as 'being insulted'. I personally don't give a rat's ass.

It's hilarious how you keep insisting that emotions and other personal things have no place on the internet, and yet you flip out like this at the slightest things.

[Shm Jay]

I think sirdanilot needs to buy some yarn and run his fingers through it or play with it like a cat so he can learn the word in a tactile manner and then calm down about it.

[sirdanilot]

This is the internet. This is not about emotions and feelings such as 'being insulted'. I personally don't give a rat's ass.

It's hilarious how you keep insisting that emotions and other personal things have no place on the internet, and yet you flip out like this at the slightest things.

I am engaging in civil discussion. How do you imagine me, yelling and weeping at my computer screen? I'm more likely to just sit lazily behind my screen, having a beer or a coffee or something, posting here in between chores.

[Rui]

[All I am saying is that the attitude of some people here is very anglo-centric in that they expect learners of English to have perfect command of the language and know very infrequent and unimportant words that have to do with a domain that 99% of the population hardly ever talks about, i.e. making clothes.

Literally no one in this thread has said that.

[Clearsand]

This is the internet. This means we can't know how people are actually feeling, whichmeans we have to be especially careful not to step on each others toes. The fact that there are well posted happy and venting threads on this forum disproves the idea that the internet is not about emotions. Of course people almost never as emotional as we think they are. It only seems like people are angry or arrogant because they use what we perceive as inflammatory language. Just because they didn't *say* things doesn't mean that we don't feel that they meant it. Sarcasm and exageration can easily be taken the wrong way and people respond to something different than what the poster said. Sirdanilot may no feel emotions while reading things on the internet, but he should not be surprised when people act in anger out of preportion to the slight directed at them.
Sorry for adding to this despoiling of the happy things thread, but I felt I had to add some of my wisdom (such as it is ) to this ongoing "discussion" revolving around sirdanilot and the various topics people have gotten upset about.

[Dewrad]

This is the internet. This is not about emotions and feelings such as 'being insulted'. I personally don't give a rat's ass.

It's hilarious how you keep insisting that emotions and other personal things have no place on the internet, and yet you flip out like this at the slightest things.

Unhelpful as this possibly is, but whenever sirdanilot massively flips out over some perceived slight and then insists that, ultimately, he isn't bothered, I'm always put in mind of this.

[Matrix]

I am engaging in civil discussion. How do you imagine me, yelling and weeping at my computer screen? I'm more likely to just sit lazily behind my screen, having a beer or a coffee or something, posting here in between chores.

If your previous behaviour is "civil discussion" for you. Then I don't want to see you when you're not civil.

Oh wait, I have, when you made those mocking drunkposts a few days ago.

[jmcd]

In any case, I expect 'yarn' is more often used these days in its metaphorical sense: a long boring or unnecessary story or discourse.

[sirdanilot]

Oh well, let's talk about happy things then, hey ?

The drunk posts weren't that terrible now were they, can a man just have a laugh and a drink?

[Matrix]

The drunk posts weren't that terrible now were they, can a man just have a laugh and a drink?

Pretty sure you can have a laugh and a drink without shitposting.

[sirdanilot]

This is the Happy threat, Matrix, let's all just enjoy life and be happy once in a while.

[sirdanilot]

Now as an example for something truly happy:

Tonight I have a deadline for an assignment. That's okay, I guess, I can just make something up and it doesn't count for a large percentage of the course's total grade.

Now first I had a deadline for wednesday for an essay which does count for a substantial portion of my grade, so in combination with the other assignment this caused me to have a lot of stress. It's on phonetics and I know quite little about this subject. What's more, I have to work all day on wednesday so it would also be impossible to work all night from tuesday to wednesday as I have to get up at 5AM.

But now the deadline has been extended for two weeks for everyone, so YAYYYY!

[jal]

With respect to English proficiancy, the Dutch suffer from a massive case of Dunning–Kruger, and it's obvious in which category Sir D. fits.

For comparison, "thrash", "geology", "boon" "smear", "ploy", "liturgy", "teeter", "fuse", "converse", "stroller", "coward", "manifest", "clockwise", "deceptive", "dormant" are some words that appear about as often as "yarn" (according to http://www.wordandphrase.info/frequencyList.asp).)

Some of those words I know very well (thrash, geology, smear, liturgy, fuse, converse, stroller, coward, manifest, clockwise, deceptive, dormant), others I have doubts with regards to the meaning (boon, ploy, teeter), and none I've never encountered before, I think. Funny that "yarn" has completely slipped by all these years...


JAL

[sirdanilot]

Oh but I certainly know many Dutch people whose English is much better than mine in speaking and writing. However, they were all raised partly bilingually, for example by watching the BBC as a young child. Though my immersion in English started quite early (as with most Dutch people, except for those of extremely orthodox backgrounds as they cannot watch TV), I do still remember the time as a young child where I didn't know any English and I do so quite actively. I remember mimicking English songs with all sorts of /r/ like sounds as a child. This sound is the most salient towards people who don't speak English. Like the velar/uvular fricative in Dutch is to non-speakers of Dutch, or pharyngeal sounds to non-speakers of Arabic.