Venting thread that still excludes eddy (2)

[Chagen]

Because no one will listen or care. Because I feel trapped inside my parents' house. Because I'm so used to this that I thought it was normal for most of my life.

In other news, classes start in less than a week. I haven't registered, and just found out there are academic holds preventing me from registering at all. They have been there since October last year, but in my depression I just...didn't give a fuck. These holds are 3000 bucks in tuition fees. Seriously? Half of these fees are ridiculous. Why do I have an Athletics Fee when I've never fucking used the athletic stuff on campus? Why do I have a transportation fee when I use my own transportation? Why must I pay three-fucking-thousand dollars every semester just to get an education? Fuck America. My family doesn't have that kind of money. Great, time to live the American Dream: suffering for years afterwards in debt from loans.

Now I'm going to have to break the news to my parents and we're gonna fight again and they're gonna make me feel miserable again and why the fuck doesn't it ever END

[jal]

Because no one will listen or care.

Although I can imagine you are feeling like this b/o your depression, healthcare specialists probably will listen (and care, professionally).


JAL

[WeepingElf]

Chagen, stop playing the drama queen and get professional help.

[jal]

Chagen, stop playing the drama queen and get professional help.

That's a bit insensitive, isn't it? Regardless of what you think Chagen's motives are, this thread is open for everyone who needs to vent, and I don't think the vent's format is dictated.


JAL

[WeepingElf]

Chagen, stop playing the drama queen and get professional help.

That's a bit insensitive, isn't it? Regardless of what you think Chagen's motives are, this thread is open for everyone who needs to vent, and I don't think the vent's format is dictated.

Sure.

[Viktor77]

Gah I know there's a massive conversation going on here but I just need to reach out for some help from people who are or know Europe.

We are supposed to travel to Poland in 4 days, a basically non-refundable voyage. I learned only today at the commune that apparently my husband's immigration papers in Belgium are only valid on Belgian territory. He has passed his 3 months in the Schengen Zone as a tourist, he submitted a dossier to receive a visa which will take 6 months to get a response. For the moment he only has the papers that state this and he is not supposed to leave Belgium, though we have gone to Germany and the Netherlands by train without ever being controlled. The government said if we leave Belgium to any other part of Schengen, he does not have a valid visa and if he is controlled there will be fines, in extreme cases deportation (back to Belgium, back to the US I don't really know). In theory there are no customs or borders in Schengen. The question is can we reasonably board the plane in Belgium with RyanAir and land in Krakow, and back from Katowice in Poland with WizzAir to Dortmund (and back to Belgium by train) without the flight people controlling him? To control him they'd need to look at his passport and go to the page with his entry stamp and check the date. They'd demand the papers and perhaps they'd know (Belgian bureaucracy is thick) that he's not supposed to leave, but they may just as well have no idea what immigration papers he has (the commune didn't, they had to call Brussels to figure out how my husband could apply for residency). Other friends have told me they don't control at all, not even American passports. They look at your photo and name, your ticket and say have a good flight. Others have said, if they do look just act dumb and pretend you didn't know and the worst they'll do is kick you off the plane in Belgium or in Poland.

Alternatively we could rent a car and drive or take a train and forfeit the plane tickets. That's expensive and rental companies here don't want to rent cars for Poland because their insurance doesn't cover Eastern Europe. Plus he could be just as equally controlled on an international train or he claims pulled over by cops in Germany of Poland through means of random police control and be forced to show his papers which, if they actually knew what Belgian immigration statuses were, would show he only has permission to stay in Belgium.

So I just don't know what to do. Do we risk boarding the plane with all our papers and hope they don't for some God forsaken reason decide to see if my husband has a valid visa?

[jal]

without ever being controlled

"controlled"? You're using Frenshisms in you English now? :) Sorry, I know this is a serious subject. I'll move on.

To control him they'd need to look at his passport and go to the page with his entry stamp and check the date. They'd demand the papers and perhaps they'd know (Belgian bureaucracy is thick) that he's not supposed to leave, but they may just as well have no idea what immigration papers he has (the commune didn't, they had to call Brussels to figure out how my husband could apply for residency). Other friends have told me they don't control at all, not even American passports. They look at your photo and name, your ticket and say have a good flight. Others have said, if they do look just act dumb and pretend you didn't know and the worst they'll do is kick you off the plane in Belgium or in Poland.

I have little experience with flying within the EU, but at least in the Netherlands, at the customs desk they typically thoroughly check your credentials. So although I would try, and I'm pretty sure there will be no penalties or fines for trying to fly without a valid visa, I'd say there's a reasonable chance he's not allowed to board.

Alternatively we could rent a car and drive or take a train and forfeit the plane tickets. That's expensive and rental companies here don't want to rent cars for Poland because their insurance doesn't cover Eastern Europe.

Really? That's strange. At least in the Netherlands, insurance (for private cars) cover the whole of Europe.

So I just don't know what to do. Do we risk boarding the plane with all our papers and hope they don't for some God forsaken reason decide to see if my husband has a valid visa?

Well, there's also the matter of travel insurance etc. (you do have travel insurance, I hope?) which may not cover if he's an illegal alien. Other than that, yes I would try to fly, the worst that can happen is that he's not allowed to board.


JAL

[din]

I haven't had travel insurance for at least 8 years, and I travel a lot.

We lost a laptop once (due to a stupid mistake of our own), but I'm sure we saved more than its value (€500) on not having travel insurance over the years.

I mean, we generally don't carry a lot of valuable items when we travel. If you do, by all means get insurance.

[hwhatting]

In my experience, there are no border controls for flights inside the Schengen area. Normally, the only people who might look at your passports (basically checking whether you are the person whose name is on the ticket) will be airline staff, and the worst that I'd expect to happen is that they don't let your husband board, if they even look at the residence permit and know that he isn't allowed to leave Belgium.
That said, I don't know what extra security and border controls are now on in Belgian Airports with all that current terrorism scare. And I'm not sure what would happen if you'd be stopped by or have to deal with police in Poland (say, in case you have to report a theft or are involved in a traffic accident or whatever). In all my life, I've never been stopped by police who wanted to see my papers while moving inside any European country, but there's still a residual risk, however small.

[Viktor77]

Thank you all. I keep hearing that RyanAir is checking all non-EU, EEC passports before take off even on intra-Schengen trips so I think, as much as it pains me to do it, I'm just going to throw the tickets away. I found out about a site called Blablacar that offers ridesharing and there are Polish people going all the time from the UK to Poland who pass through Belgium. It's a long journey but it would be interesting and our chances of being controlled (yes, Jal, it's a Frenchism ) in a car have to be significantly less and even if we are controlled I'd find it hard to believe anyone outside Belgium would understand my husband's paperwork so hopefully they'd accept it. Worse case scenario, we play dumb. After all we didn't know about this rule til yesterday and he's had the paperwork since November and we've traveled outside Belgium twice since then to neighboring countries.

[jal]

as much as it pains me to do it, I'm just going to throw the tickets away

Really? Ouch! Why not take the risk? Worst case you'll be shown the door, after which you can try the car thing.

I haven't had travel insurance for at least 8 years, and I travel a lot.

I'm mostly worried about medical expenses. Your regular medical insurance may not pay for (all) medical expenses abroad.


JAL

[Viktor77]

as much as it pains me to do it, I'm just going to throw the tickets away

Really? Ouch! Why not take the risk? Worst case you'll be shown the door, after which you can try the car thing.

We could but I have stuff planned a few hours after our arrival and I'd hate to cancel it if we had to drive day of. As it stands we can drive the day before. It sucks, it's 150€ down the drain because the Belgian government never told us not to travel outside the country (which we've done 3 times since to NL, GER, and LUX), but it's just too risky. Apparently the ministry once told someone who did the same thing and rented a villa in Italy that the ministry woman would support them if they drove but not if they flew.

Cody is worried they have established border checks between Belgium and Germany and Germany and Poland, but I can't find any evidence of this. I know there are border checks between France and Belgium now so we probably can't go to Paris for months, until he gets his residency permit. And we can't go see a friend in Austria because apparently there are checks between Germany and Austria. So much for the Schengen zone.

[hwhatting]

Cody is worried they have established border checks between Belgium and Germany and Germany and Poland, but I can't find any evidence of this.

Not so long ago the German Police instituted passport spot checks on the highways on the German side of the border, I heard that in the News. I don't know whether they're still ongoing.

And we can't go see a friend in Austria because apparently there are checks between Germany and Austria. So much for the Schengen zone.

Yes, I hope we'll get back to real borderless travel soon.

[linguoboy]

Who the hell goes to Chick-Fil-A to celebrate their same-sex wedding?

[Viktor77]

Who the hell goes to Chick-Fil-A to celebrate their same-sex wedding?

Crazy people.

Ugh, I just don't know what to do. I keep wondering if the airport will really care if my husband is violating Belgian law if he's leaving the country and would only give him trouble flying back in, which we're doing by train or rideshare. To throw away all that money, to spend 11 hours in a car with a stranger, ugh. I'm so lost.

[din]

Like I told you (and like HWH confirmed), normally your passport is not checked for flights between Schengen countries; it's only looked at to check if the name on the ticket corresponds to your passport. There may be more checks now with the terrorism and refugee thing, but whatever. I'd risk it.

[Viktor77]

Like I told you (and like HWH confirmed), normally your passport is not checked for flights between Schengen countries; it's only looked at to check if the name on the ticket corresponds to your passport. There may be more checks now with the terrorism and refugee thing, but whatever. I'd risk it.

I know but I scoured the Internets and finally found out that RyanAir is certain to check our visa status at the gate. It's attested to for Americans flying intra-Schengen in December. It's impossible to know if they'll accept the paperwork or reject it. The risk is too great in my calculation so we'll still go, but using Blablacar. We won't have to worry so much about luggage that way anyway. Just hopefully there is some way to use the bathroom on European highways because I cannot go 11 hours haha.

And it'll give me a chance to practice and learn some Polish since every person going to Poland seems to be Polish.

[hwhatting]

Just hopefully there is some way to use the bathroom on European highways because I cannot go 11 hours haha.

At least in Germany, there are rest places every couple of kilometers (sanitary state of toilets (free usage) may vary) and there are rest stations where you can fuel your car, eat fastish food, or buy food and other stuff for the road. The toilets there are nomally clean, but cost a small fee, the bigger part of which you can get back as a discount when you eat or buy something at the station. So at least until Poland, you should be fine; the last time I used a Polish highway (to Wroclaw) is 12 years ago, so I don't know whether my knowledge of the situation there is still applicable.

[Viktor77]

Just hopefully there is some way to use the bathroom on European highways because I cannot go 11 hours haha.

At least in Germany, there are rest places every couple of kilometers (sanitary state of toilets (free usage) may vary) and there are rest stations where you can fuel your car, eat fastish food, or buy food and other stuff for the road. The toilets there are nomally clean, but cost a small fee, the bigger part of which you can get back as a discount when you eat or buy something at the station. So at least until Poland, you should be fine; the last time I used a Polish highway (to Wroclaw) is 12 years ago, so I don't know whether my knowledge of the situation there is still applicable.

Thanks.

But it's all gone to shit! I had to cancel the entire trip. Hundreds of lost euros, all that excitement down the drain. I looked really hard into Cody's papers and he would be considered an illegal immigrant outside Belgium and any police officer would know it. I can't break the law, not even by rideshare as that wouldn't be fair to the driver if he's controlled and we're controlled. I'm very upset because all the fucking commune had to do was tell me this in November, not yesterday!!!! But it's my fault, I should've thought to ask, but it never occurred to me that anything in Belgium wouldn't apply to all Schengen countries. We will copy the entire trip again in summer when it's nicer and after he gets the residency card, if the Belgium government doesn't for some God forsaken reason reject it. For the next 4 months we're stuck in Belgium. I can leave, but he can't, and it wouldn't be fair if I went anywhere.

[vampireshark]

But it's all gone to shit! I had to cancel the entire trip. Hundreds of lost euros, all that excitement down the drain. I looked really hard into Cody's papers and he would be considered an illegal immigrant outside Belgium and any police officer would know it. I can't break the law, not even by rideshare as that wouldn't be fair to the driver if he's controlled and we're controlled. I'm very upset because all the fucking commune had to do was tell me this in November, not yesterday!!!! But it's my fault, I should've thought to ask, but it never occurred to me that anything in Belgium wouldn't apply to all Schengen countries. We will copy the entire trip again in summer when it's nicer and after he gets the residency card, if the Belgium government doesn't for some God forsaken reason reject it. For the next 4 months we're stuck in Belgium. I can leave, but he can't, and it wouldn't be fair if I went anywhere.

That's not good at all; really am sorry about that! I actually had a little bit of a similar scare as I was getting ready for my India trip: without my residence permit, I could've had major issues getting back into Luxembourg despite having all the paperwork saying that I was lawfully temporarily resident in Luxembourg and not having yet exceeded the 90-day visa-free stay period.

And I heard two different things from two different organizations: that I was permitted to travel (from the Luxembourgish Embassy in DC) and that I was not supposed to travel (from the people at MAEE). It ultimately didn't matter, as I got the permit, but it was still frustrating. Not hearing about rules (or hearing wildly contradictory things, like in France where I got three different responses from three different government officers about my permitted length of stay, and each of them were equally convinced that they were right) unfortunately seems to be very common, especially when it comes to immigration.

[Viktor77]

That's not good at all; really am sorry about that! I actually had a little bit of a similar scare as I was getting ready for my India trip: without my residence permit, I could've had major issues getting back into Luxembourg despite having all the paperwork saying that I was lawfully temporarily resident in Luxembourg and not having yet exceeded the 90-day visa-free stay period.

And I heard two different things from two different organizations: that I was permitted to travel (from the Luxembourgish Embassy in DC) and that I was not supposed to travel (from the people at MAEE). It ultimately didn't matter, as I got the permit, but it was still frustrating. Not hearing about rules (or hearing wildly contradictory things, like in France where I got three different responses from three different government officers about my permitted length of stay, and each of them were equally convinced that they were right) unfortunately seems to be very common, especially when it comes to immigration.

Thanks. It sounds like your situation was pretty much equivalent except you hadn't surpassed the 90 days, which I would kill for right now. If my husband hadn't surpassed the 90 days we'd be traveling because he would at least have a valid Schengen visa. We could very well probably have traveled and never ran into a single check, but it was risky. I made the decision to cancel after I found the official paperwork from the Belgian government and EU and it was stated very clearly that he was an illegal immigrant outside of Belgium. The risk seemed too great. The government here is so slow and incompetent, probably worse than France. He was supposed to have already received his Orange Card but he hasn't. He can't travel on an Orange Card, but people have and I would've perhaps risked it with the card, but with just a piece of paper from the commune I couldn't. I hope they get him the visa before May because otherwise we're going to have a major issue with Eurovision. They gave him a 6 month timeframe to get the visa, and May is the 6th month. Knowing Belgium they will take their sweet ass time.

[Viktor77]

Ok, last post for this drama queen but I really regret canceling this trip. I freaked out. I've spoken with more people who told my by car I had nothing to worry about, not really, and that nothing in Schengen Europe is really highly secure and deportation is apparently "high-class" meaning the police actually have to arrange your transport back if they really want to kick you out. Apparently even at the ridiculous boarder controls between France and Belgium they only control 1 in 200 cars. Plus I'm pretty sure there's a law that Schengen controls can only stay up for a certain amount of time, and there is also apparently this thing called the Brax Arrest that we can carry with us that explains our rights.

As soon as we get that damn Orange card which is a tad more official than attestation papers, then Belgian government and borders be damned. I'm not waiting 6 more months to travel fully legally with only like 7 more months here. I hope the Belgian government isn't reading this forum.

But yea, we should be in Poland...when we go in Spring or Summer when it's nicer I'm making up for this by adding Gdansk. I'd go to Ukraine too but then we'd have to leave the Schengen Zone and then it could be hard getting back in.

[vampireshark]

The temporary Schengen controls can only stay up for one month at a time (normally). And, as din said, travelling in the Schengen Area normally isn't a problem. For example, when I lived in France, I had a long-stay visa that had to be converted into a residence permit within three months of entry into France. However, the visa did allow travel within the Schengen Area even if it hadn't been converted; however, if you left the Schengen Area without it having been converted into the residence permit, that's where the problems could come up.

The only countries I would be very careful of travel to with just the Orange Card, though, are Switzerland and Norway: even though they're Schengen countries, they are not EU, so they routinely run customs checks on crossing the border, and this frequently includes document checks. (I got checked going into and out of Switzerland.)

Though, as a random note, while I probably shouldn't be mentioning this, your husband would probably be perfectly legally fine to stay in Denmark, actually: Denmark has a separate visa arrangement with the US that gives Americans 90 days in Denmark only. (This is separate from the Schengen Agreement visa exemption.)


In other things, my brother has to retake his candidacy exam this upcoming week (he failed his first attempt in August). So I'm quite nervous and really am hoping he passes, especially since this is his final attempt: if he doesn't pass, he won't be allowed to continue to the Ph.D.

[Viktor77]

The temporary Schengen controls can only stay up for one month at a time (normally). And, as din said, travelling in the Schengen Area normally isn't a problem. For example, when I lived in France, I had a long-stay visa that had to be converted into a residence permit within three months of entry into France. However, the visa did allow travel within the Schengen Area even if it hadn't been converted; however, if you left the Schengen Area without it having been converted into the residence permit, that's where the problems could come up.

The only countries I would be very careful of travel to with just the Orange Card, though, are Switzerland and Norway: even though they're Schengen countries, they are not EU, so they routinely run customs checks on crossing the border, and this frequently includes document checks. (I got checked going into and out of Switzerland.)

Though, as a random note, while I probably shouldn't be mentioning this, your husband would probably be perfectly legally fine to stay in Denmark, actually: Denmark has a separate visa arrangement with the US that gives Americans 90 days in Denmark only. (This is separate from the Schengen Agreement visa exemption.)


In other things, my brother has to retake his candidacy exam this upcoming week (he failed his first attempt in August). So I'm quite nervous and really am hoping he passes, especially since this is his final attempt: if he doesn't pass, he won't be allowed to continue to the Ph.D.

Hey, so you left France without being allowed to?

Really we can go to Denmark? Thanks for this because maybe that's where we'll go!!!!!!!

[vampireshark]

Hey, so you left France without being allowed to?

Really we can go to Denmark? Thanks for this because maybe that's where we'll go!!!!!!!

I actually didn't: I got my validation sticker in two months, before my visa "expired". I just remember the stuff from the paperwork we language assistants all got when we got our visas and what they said.

And I'm about 80% certain you can go to Denmark: it's not well-known, but it is a provision that does exist. (The issue might be getting back into Belgium if there are controls, but that's minor.)