Creativity of the day

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احمکي ارش-ھجن
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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by احمکي ارش-ھجن »

KathAveara wrote:
אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:I dunno, I wanna use obsidian as a currency of some sort. But I don't know how a weight-based system will work...
"I say that cow is worth 8 tokkul..."
Exactly as arbitrarily as modern currency.
Of course, but that isn't what I mean...
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

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Re: Creativity of the day

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אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:
KathAveara wrote:
אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:I dunno, I wanna use obsidian as a currency of some sort. But I don't know how a weight-based system will work...
"I say that cow is worth 8 tokkul..."
Exactly as arbitrarily as modern currency.
Of course, but that isn't what I mean...
Then what do you mean? In what way do you not understand how it works?

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by Hallow XIII »

> tokkul

really
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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by احمکي ارش-ھجن »

KathAveara wrote:
אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:
KathAveara wrote:
אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:I dunno, I wanna use obsidian as a currency of some sort. But I don't know how a weight-based system will work...
"I say that cow is worth 8 tokkul..."
Exactly as arbitrarily as modern currency.
Of course, but that isn't what I mean...
Then what do you mean? In what way do you not understand how it works?
Because I asked "how a weight-based system will work" not "is it arbitrarily done"
Hallow XIII wrote:> tokkul

really
Someone gets the reference :-D
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- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by KathTheDragon »

Ok, well, you arbitrarily assign some value to some common product that everyone buys, and decide what everything's worth relative to that. If it's not centralised, this will likely differ from trade to trade. This is pretty much exactly how value-based currencies are set up a priori.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by احمکي ارش-ھجن »

So like... You take the weight of a metal and you measure the weight of another thing compared to that?
"Worth its weight in gold"

Or do you mean some random guy decides that his coin has a value of 12 and that a cow has a value of 4?
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by KathTheDragon »

Well, it's basically equivalent to modern denomination-based currency, but instead of the value of each type of unit being some arbitrary number, the value is directly equivalent to its weight, so that a 'coin' twice the weight of another also has twice the value.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by احمکي ارش-ھجن »

KathAveara wrote:Well, it's basically equivalent to modern denomination-based currency, but instead of the value of each type of unit being some arbitrary number, the value is directly equivalent to its weight, so that a 'coin' twice the weight of another also has twice the value.
But the value of other goods is arbitrary compared to the coin?
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by KathTheDragon »

Yup. It's largely based on what people decide the goods are worth relative to each other. So, say you'd be happy to trade 10 of your famous sand-cakes for a small piece of that magical metal everyone wants. Then that piece of metal is worth 10 times whatever the cakes are worth. Which is why you ought to pick a product and fix its value. Then, any other products you need to assign value to can be considered in terms of that first product (or via a chain ultimately leading back to that product)

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by احمکي ارش-ھجن »

KathAveara wrote:Yup. It's largely based on what people decide the goods are worth relative to each other. So, say you'd be happy to trade 10 of your famous sand-cakes for a small piece of that magical metal everyone wants. Then that piece of metal is worth 10 times whatever the cakes are worth. Which is why you ought to pick a product and fix its value. Then, any other products you need to assign value to can be considered in terms of that first product (or via a chain ultimately leading back to that product)
The product, does it determine the value of the metal being used as exchange, or can the metal itself be the product of which value is fixed?
Could I not take 100g of obsidian say that it represents 1 tokkul (being a unit of value)?
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

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Re: Creativity of the day

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אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:
KathAveara wrote:Yup. It's largely based on what people decide the goods are worth relative to each other. So, say you'd be happy to trade 10 of your famous sand-cakes for a small piece of that magical metal everyone wants. Then that piece of metal is worth 10 times whatever the cakes are worth. Which is why you ought to pick a product and fix its value. Then, any other products you need to assign value to can be considered in terms of that first product (or via a chain ultimately leading back to that product)
The product, does it determine the value of the metal being used as exchange, or can the metal itself be the product of which value is fixed?
Could I not take 100g of obsidian say that it represents 1 tokkul (being a unit of value)?
No. You will almost certainly want your obsidian 'coins' to be worked, to prevent counterfeiting. This necessarily decouples their value from the worth of the same amount of raw obsidian. And if raw obsidian is as common as you seem to have implied, obsidian itself is dirt-cheap, which is not what you want. There's a good reason I suggested a food - everyone buys it, and it's not what money's made from.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by احمکي ارش-ھجن »

KathAveara wrote:
אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:
KathAveara wrote:Yup. It's largely based on what people decide the goods are worth relative to each other. So, say you'd be happy to trade 10 of your famous sand-cakes for a small piece of that magical metal everyone wants. Then that piece of metal is worth 10 times whatever the cakes are worth. Which is why you ought to pick a product and fix its value. Then, any other products you need to assign value to can be considered in terms of that first product (or via a chain ultimately leading back to that product)
The product, does it determine the value of the metal being used as exchange, or can the metal itself be the product of which value is fixed?
Could I not take 100g of obsidian say that it represents 1 tokkul (being a unit of value)?
No. You will almost certainly want your obsidian 'coins' to be worked, to prevent counterfeiting. This necessarily decouples their value from the worth of the same amount of raw obsidian. And if raw obsidian is as common as you seem to have implied, obsidian itself is dirt-cheap, which is not what you want. There's a good reason I suggested a food - everyone buys it, and it's not what money's made from.
Worked? How?

Is the value of the coin based on the equivalent weight of the agricultural product whose value is fixed? Ex. 100g obsidian is the same as 20 aloe plants totaling a weight of 100g and therefore the value of the obsidian coin is 20 aloes? That is to say your 10 tokkul is enough to buy/equivalent to 200 units of aloe?
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by KathTheDragon »

אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:
KathAveara wrote:
אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:
KathAveara wrote:Yup. It's largely based on what people decide the goods are worth relative to each other. So, say you'd be happy to trade 10 of your famous sand-cakes for a small piece of that magical metal everyone wants. Then that piece of metal is worth 10 times whatever the cakes are worth. Which is why you ought to pick a product and fix its value. Then, any other products you need to assign value to can be considered in terms of that first product (or via a chain ultimately leading back to that product)
The product, does it determine the value of the metal being used as exchange, or can the metal itself be the product of which value is fixed?
Could I not take 100g of obsidian say that it represents 1 tokkul (being a unit of value)?
No. You will almost certainly want your obsidian 'coins' to be worked, to prevent counterfeiting. This necessarily decouples their value from the worth of the same amount of raw obsidian. And if raw obsidian is as common as you seem to have implied, obsidian itself is dirt-cheap, which is not what you want. There's a good reason I suggested a food - everyone buys it, and it's not what money's made from.
Worked? How?

Is the value of the coin based on the equivalent weight of the agricultural product whose value is fixed? Ex. 100g obsidian is the same as 20 aloe plants totaling a weight of 100g and therefore the value of the obsidian coin is 20 aloes? That is to say your 10 tokkul is enough to buy/equivalent to 200 units of aloe?
Well, you won't use lumps of obsidian you can find on the ground. You'll want to shape them, carve them, first.

Weeelll... For your purposes, yes, the price of this product can be taken to be fixed. In reality, it probably won't be, but then you get into economics.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by احمکي ارش-ھجن »

Of course; I reckon that if a famine occurs the plants will be scarce and expensive and thus the obsidian coin may be of less value, whereas if there is an abundance of the plants... And so the plant is cheaper and the coin has higher value..?

Ah economics I know nothing of.
I just wanted to know how this weight-based currency works...
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by KathTheDragon »

Well, now you know.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by احمکي ارش-ھجن »

I still feel unsure how this works...
Does it work like this:

Supposing you want to buy a cow, but it is worth 40 tokkuls.
The tokkul is a standard unit of 120 gram made of obsidian, and is equivalent to a 1.2kg small sack of grain (there is also units of medium and large, being 6kg and 12kg respectively)
So you bring your bag full of tokkuls, put it on the weight scale and sees that all is good.
Cow is bought.
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by KathTheDragon »

Yes. Determining how much 'money' you have is simple - merchants will have a set of weights corresponding to various multiples of the base value, with which you can measure out any multiple of the base weight. You then measure out the correct weight of 'money', and buy the cow.

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Re: Creativity of the day

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Birds use coins called pinss (from pence) and paper money called dola (from dollar). The coins are stainless steel, and the paper money has a picture of a dancer on it. The money comes in coins of 1, 5, 10, 20, 35, 50, 100 Ƥ and paper money in 1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 40, 65, 100 ᵭ (but a capital d with a middle tilde). This is for paying the tax of varying amount on something. Everything is free except the tax is how you pay. And it is really spelt pèns and dōlā.
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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by Dē Graut Bʉr »

din wrote:I wouldn't call this "creativity" unless you tell us a little more about it.

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Re: Creativity of the day

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Tried making a feudal Japanese-style portrait:
Image

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Re: Creativity of the day

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Ketumak wrote:Very nice notes and coins, vampireshark. Gives me a ... yen to learn the language of Telemor. Have you put anything on the 'net about it?
Sorry for the late reply, but thanks. And nice pun.

As for the language, I have a short introduction available here, though it's hardly as comprehensive as I would like. Also am working a bit on trying to put a dictionary of the language online, though that's going extremely slowly.

clawgrip: That certainly doesn't look like something you made (meant in a good way); it looks like an authentic article.


Anyways, how about more random and semi-creative things:
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What do you see in the night?

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Re: Creativity of the day

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What has happened to the right edge? Something bitten out?
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Re: Creativity of the day

Post by vampireshark »

WeepingElf wrote:What has happened to the right edge? Something bitten out?
It's actually meant to be a cut-out of the left edge of the silhouette of a map of Telèmor, much how older Canadian visas had cut-outs of maple leaves in the document and how some other visas have edge cut-outs.
What do you see in the night?

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Re: Creativity of the day

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vampireshark wrote:
WeepingElf wrote:What has happened to the right edge? Something bitten out?
It's actually meant to be a cut-out of the left edge of the silhouette of a map of Telèmor, much how older Canadian visas had cut-outs of maple leaves in the document and how some other visas have edge cut-outs.
Interesting. It is also what I wondered whether it could be that.
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Re: Creativity of the day

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I designed two health cards for my Japanese-offshoot con-country. The difference between the two versions is the place of issue.

Okinoshima Version:
Image

Yabushiojima Version:
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Picked the people's photos off the Internet from ID photo websites.

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