Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2

[linguoboy]

From the Wikipedia article on the Absheron Peninsula in Azerbaijan:

The word Absheron (Abshiron) is an ancient combined word in Turkic-Azeri dialect meaning "healing sneeze" (Abshir + on = Abshiron). The area got that name because of its healthy nature

"Citation needed", indeed.

[Soap]

In The Origin and Progress of Language [James Burnett, also known as Lord Monboddo] painstakingly analyses the structure of primitive and modern languages that argues that mankind had evolved language skills in response to his changing environment and altering social structures. His work in language evolution departed radically from then existing theories. This analysis was totally remarkable, since Burnett was partially deaf. He was intrigued with the systematics he discovered in codifying a multitude of primitive languages. Burnett was the first to discover that primitive languages create unnecessarily lengthy words for rather simple concepts. He reasoned that in early languages there was an imperative for clarity, so that redundancy was built in and seemingly unnecessary syllables added. He concluded that this form of language evolved as a method of survival when clear communication might be the determinant of avoiding danger. He demonstrated that he was aware of the advantages to those peoples who could develop superior language skills. This quasi-evolutionary idea, whilst common today, was then unusual. Burnett himself was deeply religious and often digressed to credit God with the divine first mover concept as argued in a similar vein by Aristotle.

Monboddo studied in great detail the languages of peoples colonised by Europeans, including those of the Carib, Eskimo, Huron, Algonquian, Peruvian (Quechua?) and Tahitian peoples. He was the first to see the preponderance of polysyllabic words, where some of his predecessors had dismissed primitive language as a series of monosyllabic grunts. He also made the astute observation that in Huron (or Wyandot) the words for very similar objects are astoundingly different. This fact led Monboddo to understand that primitive peoples needed to communicate reliably regarding a more limited number of subjects than in modern civilizations, which led to the polysyllabic and redundant nature of many words. He was also apparently the first to establish that primitive languages are generally vowel rich; correspondingly, very late advanced languages such as German and English are vowel starved. Partially this disparity arises from the greater vocabulary of modern languages and the decreased need for the polysyllabic content.

Monboddo also traced the evolution of modern European languages and gave particularly great effort to understanding the ancient Greek language, in which he was proficient. He argued that Greek is the most perfect language ever established because of its complex structure and tonality, rendering it capable of expressing a wide gamut of nuances. Monboddo was the first to formulate what is now known as the single-origin hypothesis, the theory that all human origin was from a single region of the earth; he reached this conclusion by reasoning from linguistic evolution (Jones, 1789). This theory is evidence of his thinking on the topic of the evolution of Man.

-- Wikipedia

[faiuwle]

He was also apparently the first to establish that primitive languages are generally vowel rich; correspondingly, very late advanced languages such as German and English are vowel starved.

I know, English only has like, what, sixteen distinct vowel phonemes? We're starving here!

[roninbodhisattva]

He was also apparently the first to establish that primitive languages are generally vowel rich; correspondingly, very late advanced languages such as German and English are vowel starved.

Man, by that reasoning then...Salishan languages are pretty advanced. I like this.

[Bristel]

He was also apparently the first to establish that primitive languages are generally vowel rich; correspondingly, very late advanced languages such as German and English are vowel starved.

Man, by that reasoning then...Salishan languages are pretty advanced. I like this.

If I were a linguistics quack, I'd totally be for that...

ʔu gʷəlapu haʔɬ siʔjaʔja... welcome good friends

[Nortaneous]

He was also apparently the first to establish that primitive languages are generally vowel rich; correspondingly, very late advanced languages such as German and English are vowel starved.

Man, by that reasoning then...Salishan languages are pretty advanced. I like this.

Great, now some """postcolonialist""" quack is going to pick up on that and use it to say the evil Europeans destroyed the most advanced civilization on Earth.

But I can't get a Berber Islamist joke to work out because Classical Arabic doesn't have batshit insane consonant clusters. Curses, foiled again!

[roninbodhisattva]

But I can't get a Berber Islamist joke to work out because Classical Arabic doesn't have batshit insane consonant clusters. Curses, foiled again!

Pitty, isn't it?

[Arzena]

Wikipedia wrote:
In some cultures <h> is known as the Letter of the Gods and therefore was seen to have intrinsic properties.

quack quack quack

[rickardspaghetti]

What source did they give for that one? c:

[linguoboy]

What source did they give for that one? c:

I Googled "Letter of the Gods" and three of the five hits led me back to that article. Maybe I'll see if the same claim is in any of the foreign language versions.

[Kilanie]

Some teachers don't even know what the passive voice is.

This pains me so much.
I hate prescriptivists even more now... I at least thought that their rules made sense in some dialect or another.
This is atrocious.

[Xephyr]

Some teachers don't even know what the passive voice is.

This pains me so much.
I hate prescriptivists even more now... I at least thought that their rules made sense in some dialect or another.
This is atrocious.

Passive-paranoia is basically a genre unto itself in prescriptivism:

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2470
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2474
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2524

[Nesescosac]

Some teachers don't even know what the passive voice is.

My English teacher make this same mistake yesterday in class, and he will probably do the same today.

[roninbodhisattva]

The fear of the passive is one of those things that makes me angry to no end. Fuckin' eh, I'll use the passive if it's goddamn appropriate. Calm the fuck down I'm not threatening the integrity of my own goddamn writing.

[bulbaquil]

What's more is that it's not even something that can be excused by (c wut i did thar?) Latinophilia, as Latin had a passive voice.

[Trailsend]

I think it's a useful exercise to practice avoiding passive voice, since (just like everything else) it can be overused to detrimental effect.

Really bugs me when the literarily-minded start crusading against it without bothering first to learn what it is (and why "he was happy" is not it), though.

[bulbaquil]

I think it's a useful exercise to practice avoiding passive voice, since (just like everything else) it can be overused to detrimental effect.

This statement is doubted by me. No detrimental usage of the passive voice has ever been observed by me.

[Legion]

I think it's a useful exercise to practice avoiding passive voice, since (just like everything else) it can be overused to detrimental effect.

This statement is doubted by me. No detrimental usage of the passive voice has ever been observed by me.

Have a mirror.

[bulbaquil]

I think it's a useful exercise to practice avoiding passive voice, since (just like everything else) it can be overused to detrimental effect.

This statement is doubted by me. No detrimental usage of the passive voice has ever been observed by me.

Have a mirror.

I was being deliberately sarcastic

[Jashan]

The passive voice has its uses. When I was teaching it to my ESL students, I focused primarily on the passive's uses in:

1) Obscuring the responsible agent
2) Expressing an unknown agent

and as teritary, sounding more formal in general.

The only reason I think passive is frowned upon is becuase it's "good style" [according to whom?] to use strong, active verbs [strong as in 'vivid mental images', not as in 'irregular'] over weaker verbs. That is, stylistically, you're encouraged to say "The man shattered the window" rather than the plainer "The man broke the window" or the even-weaker "The window was broken (by the man)."

However, anyone who cannot parse the simple rule that passive voice == the appropriate tense/form of "to be" + the past participle (thus ruling out things like "He was happy" or "He was going" or whatnot), should have no business being anywhere near a teacher position, much less actually correcting papers written in English

[Sevly]

I just read an entry on TVtropes about a guy whose elementary school teacher told him that a sentence should never begin with a pronoun. That's right, pronouns. Sevly thinks, from an example given, that the teacher was trying to stop students from using dummy subjects like 'it' in 'It was nice of you to come'. Presumably because such subjects introduce a copula right up there at the front of the sentence, which is the all-forbidden passive, of course. Ahem.

[Bedelato]

What's more is that it's not even something that can be excused by (c wut i did thar?) Latinophilia, as Latin had a passive voice.

Okay, I just have to say this:
According to traditional grammar, all languages are essentially Latin.

The next person who says "copula equals passive" is gonna hear from me.

[dhok]

Yeah, but the thing is that site's a comedy site.
I mean, "French is essentially a Romance language with Algonquian verb grammar."? That's a parody, not ignorance.

[Bedelato]

Yeah, but the thing is that site's a comedy site.
I mean, "French is essentially a Romance language with Algonquian verb grammar."? That's a parody, not ignorance.

I know it's a humor site. That's the point; I was intentionally making a joke. I was commenting on a previous point, not bringing up a new one.

By the way, I made up that line. It wasn't on the site.

[finlay]

and according to generative grammar, all languages are essentially english (that's the impression i always got, anyway )