The Thought Experiment Thread
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
I think he was already caught out with the questioning of the existence of a soulmate.
It refers to the bit above about "a greater functional balance between the right and left hemispheres of the brain that scientists say would be supported by anatomical differences that have been discovered in the brains of exclusively homosexual individuals". Though admittedly I don't know so much about that anyway. Like who those scientists are.
Anyway, Question Time:
Would you rather everyone was conformist or everyone was anti-conformist? (Genie gives these options of course)
It refers to the bit above about "a greater functional balance between the right and left hemispheres of the brain that scientists say would be supported by anatomical differences that have been discovered in the brains of exclusively homosexual individuals". Though admittedly I don't know so much about that anyway. Like who those scientists are.
Anyway, Question Time:
Would you rather everyone was conformist or everyone was anti-conformist? (Genie gives these options of course)
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
Give up making orthographies. I can cover for my orthography with existing ones, but only using an existing phonology means I'll have to go back to my early days of conlanging, when I didn't know what a fricative was.Jetboy wrote:No, twenty year life spans would suck.
You either have to give up either making phonologies, and have to take them more or less as is from natural languages, adding or removing at most one or two phonemes, or you have to give up making orthographies, simply taking those of natural languages more or less whole-cloth to cover your inventories, patching any gaps with another natlang. Which do you choose?
If you could choose whatever period and place in the world to live in, would you remain here or move? If you would move, where would you move to?
Languages I speak fluentlyPřemysl wrote:Oh god, we truly are nerdy. My first instinct was "why didn't he just use sunt and have it all in Latin?".Kereb wrote:they are nerdissimus inter nerdes
English, עברית
Languages I am studying
العربية, 日本語
Conlangs
Athonian
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
To me it's clearly far more to do with the fact that the sampled individuals are shamans, and thus have used their mind in a certain way, than it is to do with them being gay. Let's assume for a minute that they're right in claiming that the shamans had "special powers" – it still smacks of stereotyping gay men as more artistic etc than straight men.jmcd wrote:I think he was already caught out with the questioning of the existence of a soulmate.
It refers to the bit above about "a greater functional balance between the right and left hemispheres of the brain that scientists say would be supported by anatomical differences that have been discovered in the brains of exclusively homosexual individuals". Though admittedly I don't know so much about that anyway. Like who those scientists are.)
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
this is speculative evopsych and not really backed by anthropological analyses of primitive cultures. liberal democracies are the best place to be if you have a tendency towards sexual perversion. mostly because liberal democracies are the best place to be, but especially for perverts.
one of the many reasons why liberal democracies are better for perverts is because we are trying to get away from fucking stupid ideas like "exclusively homosexual individuals ... [have] special mental abilities resulting from the greater functional balance in their brain structures" which is not even a step away from "exclusive homosexuals are witches", which *is* a step away from "we must burn exclusive homosexuals", a step more likely to be approved and taken anywhere that is illiberal.
Which brings us nicely back to the main thread.
here, of course. i am a sexual pervert.If you could choose whatever period and place in the world to live in, would you remain here or move? If you would move, where would you move to?
and just to tie up the two branches:
Conformist, of course. A society in which nobody conforms and always defects is called "not even the state of nature because at least people there had the capacity to form communities".Would you rather everyone was conformist or everyone was anti-conformist? (Genie gives these options of course)
So:
A genie offers you three wishes on condition you convert to Islam. Well?
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
Why not? As long as I don't actually have to follow all the rules. I'll convert and then forget about it. Or I'll use one of my infinite number of wishes (that was my first wish) to de-convert.Pthug wrote: So:
A genie offers you three wishes on condition you convert to Islam. Well?
If you were given an option to be born in your conworld instead, would you do so?
Languages I speak fluentlyPřemysl wrote:Oh god, we truly are nerdy. My first instinct was "why didn't he just use sunt and have it all in Latin?".Kereb wrote:they are nerdissimus inter nerdes
English, עברית
Languages I am studying
العربية, 日本語
Conlangs
Athonian
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
Yes of course you do, you fucking evil person, do you think the genie is stupid?Mr. Z wrote:As long as I don't actually have to follow all the rules
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
I was hoping he is.Pthug wrote:Yes of course you do, you fucking evil person, do you think the genie is stupid?Mr. Z wrote:As long as I don't actually have to follow all the rules
Well, I'll convert anyway, and then I'll reverse the conversion.
Languages I speak fluentlyPřemysl wrote:Oh god, we truly are nerdy. My first instinct was "why didn't he just use sunt and have it all in Latin?".Kereb wrote:they are nerdissimus inter nerdes
English, עברית
Languages I am studying
العربية, 日本語
Conlangs
Athonian
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
obv. then you are in breach of contract and your wishes get undone
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
Then I wish for that not to happen.Pthug wrote:obv. then you are in breach of contract and your wishes get undone
Languages I speak fluentlyPřemysl wrote:Oh god, we truly are nerdy. My first instinct was "why didn't he just use sunt and have it all in Latin?".Kereb wrote:they are nerdissimus inter nerdes
English, עברית
Languages I am studying
العربية, 日本語
Conlangs
Athonian
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
Come on, everybody knows that wish can't be granted. Give a proper answer! (EDIT: To clarify: everybody knows you can't wish for more wishes.)Mr. Z wrote:Or I'll use one of my infinite number of wishes (that was my first wish) to de-convert.
Yes. The Visuhi have more advanced technology, better weather, and space travel - I couldn't say no.Mr. Z wrote:If you were given an option to be born in your conworld instead, would you do so?
If you had to kill either a baby or its mother to save the planet from instant destruction, which would you kill?
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
Baby. For the same reason people who are against abortion "except if the mother's life is in danger" are. Though for obvious reasons it isnt one of the most popular abortion arguments, the arguing's been done so I'll let it be at that. Besides, even if I choose wrong I've still saved 6,743,768,238 lives, including the mother who would have died anyway, so who's gonna complain except maybe the baby?
next:
A contractor offers you a job digging up oil in Antarctica and it pays 10X higher than the best job youve ever had in the past. But you have to commit to a minimum 5 year term, only get two weeks home each year, and have been warned that most people who take this job commit suicide before they finish the 5 year term. Do you do it?
next:
A contractor offers you a job digging up oil in Antarctica and it pays 10X higher than the best job youve ever had in the past. But you have to commit to a minimum 5 year term, only get two weeks home each year, and have been warned that most people who take this job commit suicide before they finish the 5 year term. Do you do it?
Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey says:
- Drydic
- Smeric
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:23 pm
- Location: I am a prisoner in my own mind.
- Contact:
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
OH COME ON THAT WAS COVERED IN THE FIRST 2 MINUTES WITH THE GENIE IN ALLADINMr. Z wrote:Or I'll use one of my infinite number of wishes (that was my first wish) to de-convert.
DO NOT TRY OUR PATIENCE
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
No because it defeats part of the purpose of getting a job: being able to do decent things with the money you earn. Being in Antarctica almost is not a decent thing.Soap wrote:A contractor offers you a job digging up oil in Antarctica and it pays 10X higher than the best job youve ever had in the past. But you have to commit to a minimum 5 year term, only get two weeks home each year, and have been warned that most people who take this job commit suicide before they finish the 5 year term. Do you do it?
Next:
Genie lets you be ruler of Saudi Arabia on condition that you rule in the same way as your predecessors. Do you do it?
---
Maybe some other stuff the book is talking about but the point was the sentence I put in separate to the link.Pthug wrote:this is speculative evopsych and not really backed by anthropological analyses of primitive cultures.
Sure that's probably true (and generally homosexuality is generally more common in societies with more population pressure) ; all I was trying to prove was that homosexuals were not shunned in hunter-gatherer societies, not that they were the best place to be.Pthug wrote:liberal democracies are the best place to be if you have a tendency towards sexual perversion. mostly because liberal democracies are the best place to be, but especially for perverts.
Speculative much? If it's really a step and a bit to take, how did it take thousands of years to get there? And it wasn't hunter-gatherers who made the step?Pthug wrote:one of the many reasons why liberal democracies are better for perverts is because we are trying to get away from fucking stupid ideas like "exclusively homosexual individuals ... [have] special mental abilities resulting from the greater functional balance in their brain structures" which is not even a step away from "exclusive homosexuals are witches", which *is* a step away from "we must burn exclusive homosexuals", a step more likely to be approved and taken anywhere that is illiberal.
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
well you failed to do this. you presented some awful patronising sentiment that homosexuals, specifically "exclusive homosexuals" are basically just shamans, who have amazing mind powers, and that is why we do not deserve death. if this is the belief of any society in particular, it is that of middle class coastal Americans in the 60s and 70s, or of Europe in the early 20th century. GUESS WHERE AND WHEN ALL THE RESEARCH BEHIND THAT SENTENCE HAPPENED?? GUESS WHO DID IT???jmcd wrote:all I was trying to prove was that homosexuals were not shunned in hunter-gatherer societies, not that they were the best place to be.
Deeply! Je suis plein de fumeuse spéculation, moi. But I do not see what I am saying that is so speculative. In contrast with...jmcd wrote:Speculative much?
Huh, wait. Are you saying you believe exclusive homosexuals are witches? Because the whole power of the 'argument' given is "Homosexuals are witches, and this is why unnamed, vaguely specified Primitive Peoples agree with us that homosexuals are a magical folk, filled with creativity and a certain pregnancy of spirit, which is why the people who say they should be killed are wrong wrong wrong!" which works iff homosexuals are magical. If they are not, then you are positing that certain non-western societies believed this also, and that this is *typical* of such societies.jmcd wrote:If it's really a step and a bit to take, how did it take thousands of years to get there? And it wasn't hunter-gatherers who made the step?
Otherwise I do not see how what you said makes sense. As far as I can see, we only really started to stop believing in witches during the Enlightenment, which makes us a very peculiar and WEIRD civilisation indeed, since no others appear to have taken it as seriously as we have. It took thousands of years to happen because, apparently, Enlightenment only happens when the student is ready.
NE: not that I even need to speculate much about this. "special mental abilities resulting from the greater functional balance in their brain structures" is prime Jungian mythos/bullshit except biologised so that instead of "psychic archetypes" it talks about "brain structures".
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
As I said before, that part of the page was not what I was caring about. You can criticise "special mental abilities" or whatever all you want because I don't care about that part and never did.Pthug wrote:well you failed to do this. you presented some awful patronising sentiment that homosexualsjmcd wrote:all I was trying to prove was that homosexuals were not shunned in hunter-gatherer societies, not that they were the best place to be.
If that source isn't good enough for showing that "hunter-gatherers are shunned from society" is wrong, how about this then?
No of course not. I was saying that the first people who came up with the idea of punishing homosexuality were not hunter-gatherers.Pthug wrote:Huh, wait. Are you saying you believe exclusive homosexuals are witches?jmcd wrote:If it's really a step and a bit to take, how did it take thousands of years to get there? And it wasn't hunter-gatherers who made the step?
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
Not sure what you are claiming with this. Of course breeders get, will get and have got help from non-breeders -- that is the point of having a society that is something more than family bands, though since these groups will be kin anyway, and "extra-pair males" includes relatives, that is beside the point. Doesn't say shit about whether or not hunter-gatherer societies do or do not have a tendency to stigmatise exclusive homosexuals, see them as being magical freaks, etc. etc.jmcd wrote:If that source isn't good enough for showing that "hunter-gatherers are shunned from society" is wrong, how about this then?
That is quite a claim, especially since practically zero is known about prehistorical ancestral populations' sociology!jmcd wrote:No of course not. I was saying that the first people who came up with the idea of punishing homosexuality were not hunter-gatherers.
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
I don't know how you interpret the word "shun" but I interpreted it as the idea that they would be exiled from society. If they would be exiled from society, they wouldn't be exiled.Pthug wrote:Not sure what you are claiming with this. Of course breeders get, will get and have got help from non-breeders -- that is the point of having a society that is something more than family bands, though since these groups will be kin anyway, and "extra-pair males" includes relatives, that is beside the point. Doesn't say shit about whether or not hunter-gatherer societies do or do not have a tendency to stigmatise exclusive homosexuals, see them as being magical freaks, etc. etc.jmcd wrote:If that source isn't good enough for showing that "hunter-gatherers are shunned from society" is wrong, how about this then?
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
There are lots of ways to deliberately misread that, such as "I will rule Saudi Arabia for a day then voluntarily step down and appoint a second government that governs the way I *really* want them to", but aside from that, no, I wouldnt do it, because I wouldnt be doing anyone any good, not even myself. I would rather just do nothing and hope someone overthrows the gov't rather than help keep it in place.
next:
You've won a 50-acre plot of land on a tropical island, but you have to live there all year round, can't just sell/rent to someone else. Life is nice, but there's not much opportunity to get money. That's all the details you know. Would you give up your current life and job to move there, or no?
next:
You've won a 50-acre plot of land on a tropical island, but you have to live there all year round, can't just sell/rent to someone else. Life is nice, but there's not much opportunity to get money. That's all the details you know. Would you give up your current life and job to move there, or no?
Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey says:
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
If it's 50 acres, it's certainly big enough to sustain me by myself if I didn't have enough money to buy food etc., but no, I wouldn't - I'd want to keep it as a private holiday destination, which is not allowed.Soap wrote:You've won a 50-acre plot of land on a tropical island, but you have to live there all year round, can't just sell/rent to someone else. Life is nice, but there's not much opportunity to get money. That's all the details you know. Would you give up your current life and job to move there, or no?
Would you spend £300 on a distance-learning course that teaches North Sámi via Norwegian, which will be fully refunded after you complete the course, or £150 on a set of books and CDs that teach Modern Standard Tibetan? (Assume that you are not fluent in any of those languages, and bear in mind that the £300 course allows you to learn two languages at once.) Yes, I'm having trouble deciding which to go for IRL.
-
- Smeric
- Posts: 1258
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:07 pm
- Location: Miracle, Inc. Headquarters
- Contact:
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
Norwegian and North Sámi, because they seem a little more useful than Modern Standard Tibetan. (although MST is a pretty awesome language)
If you had a chance to destroy an insignificant country to save the world, or destroy a very large and populated country to save the world, which would you do? No specific countries needed, or meta-discussion on what constitutes "important" or "insignificant".
If you had a chance to destroy an insignificant country to save the world, or destroy a very large and populated country to save the world, which would you do? No specific countries needed, or meta-discussion on what constitutes "important" or "insignificant".
[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
True. I was stuck about the money thing - it'll take longer to save £300 than it will £150 (though the refund makes it worthwhile I guess). But you're right, two languages in one (actually it's four in one, because I have a German grammar of Sámi and the Gulahan* Sámi course is in Swedish, and my German sucks and my attempt at learning Swedish died) is definitely better and more useful. Thanks!Bristel wrote:Norwegian and North Sámi, because they seem a little more useful than Modern Standard Tibetan. (although MST is a pretty awesome language)
*EDIT: I can never remember how many <la>s and <ha>s it has. ><
-
- Sanci
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:31 pm
- Location: Midwestern USA
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
I guess the smaller, less significant one as there would be less bloodshed.Bristel wrote:Norwegian and North Sámi, because they seem a little more useful than Modern Standard Tibetan. (although MST is a pretty awesome language)
If you had a chance to destroy an insignificant country to save the world, or destroy a very large and populated country to save the world, which would you do? No specific countries needed, or meta-discussion on what constitutes "important" or "insignificant".
Well, if the island is fifty acres in area, and is in international waters... I'd turn it into a micronation.Soap wrote:There are lots of ways to deliberately misread that, such as "I will rule Saudi Arabia for a day then voluntarily step down and appoint a second government that governs the way I *really* want them to", but aside from that, no, I wouldnt do it, because I wouldnt be doing anyone any good, not even myself. I would rather just do nothing and hope someone overthrows the gov't rather than help keep it in place.
next:
You've won a 50-acre plot of land on a tropical island, but you have to live there all year round, can't just sell/rent to someone else. Life is nice, but there's not much opportunity to get money. That's all the details you know. Would you give up your current life and job to move there, or no?
Since I brought up the idea, say you had the opportunity to found your own nation and it was accepted as a sovereign nation by the country in which you currently live. However, the catch is that it would never be any larger than 120 acres with three hundred people and you are not allowed to return your nation to your homeland and no other country is willing to enter into a business agreement with your nation. Would you do it? Why or why not?
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
So your new home has no economy. Unless the idea of running some kind of closed plantation appeals to you, why is this supposed to be a hard decision?Latinist13 wrote: Since I brought up the idea, say you had the opportunity to found your own nation and it was accepted as a sovereign nation by the country in which you currently live. However, the catch is that it would never be any larger than 120 acres with three hundred people and you are not allowed to return your nation to your homeland and no other country is willing to enter into a business agreement with your nation. Would you do it? Why or why not?
<Anaxandridas> How many artists do you know get paid?
<Anaxandridas> Seriously, name five.
<Anaxandridas> Seriously, name five.
-
- Sanci
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:31 pm
- Location: Midwestern USA
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
Good point. I'll amend it...Kereb wrote:So your new home has no economy. Unless the idea of running some kind of closed plantation appeals to you, why is this supposed to be a hard decision?Latinist13 wrote: Since I brought up the idea, say you had the opportunity to found your own nation and it was accepted as a sovereign nation by the country in which you currently live. However, the catch is that it would never be any larger than 120 acres with three hundred people and you are not allowed to return your nation to your homeland and no other country is willing to enter into a business agreement with your nation. Would you do it? Why or why not?
Say you had the opportunity to found your own nation based upon your philosophical and cultural ideals and values, your own personal utopia, and it was accepted as a sovereign nation by the world at large. It is large and prosperous, with a population of seventeen million, with a clean environment and a content populace. There is, however, a catch... your friends and family live on the other side of the border and refuse to join you, and you cannot return to your homeland under any circumstances without getting arrested, as they view the claims of independence as illegitimate. Would you do it? Why or why not?
Re: The Thought Experiment Thread
Then no. There are a lot of cultural / legal restrictions I'd like to be free from, but I have no interest in ruling anything.
<Anaxandridas> How many artists do you know get paid?
<Anaxandridas> Seriously, name five.
<Anaxandridas> Seriously, name five.