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zompist bboard • View topic - LCS Creating New Advisory Committee

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:18 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:34 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:39 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:44 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:48 am 
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I think that the LCS in general is very keen on the concept of a "conlanging community", and by their metric a conlanger is not just someone who creates languages, but rather someone who participates in this "community" and identifies as "a conlanger".


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:05 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:41 am 
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One of the problems I see with this idea of a single, monolithic representative is its potential for abuse– not necessarily even malicious abuse, but simply the fact that this representative could easily overlook or fail to take into account some view-point. One of the big reasons for the dislike of LCS here seems to be fear of misrepresentation, which isn't entirely unjustified. It seems a better idea to, instead of saying "The conlanging community is X, Y, and Z", say "Some parts of the community are here, here, and here, go see for yourself"; instead of being a spokesman for the community, help the community be a spokesperson for itself, a task which doesn't require a "society" to be undertaken. Aggregating links, which you're already doing, seems much more useful both for "representing the community" to those outside of it, and for aiding those within it, and a "society" is superfluous here as well– why not just call yourselves a "List of Language Creation Resources"? Really, the only apparent reason to have a "Society" is to host the convention, though I will say that that is a neat idea. Overall, though, as far as I can tell, the best way to make people here, who are, after all, part of this community which you claim to represent, less unhappy about the LCS would be to act not as a spokesman for the community, but as a sign pointing toward the community and the community's voice.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:10 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:02 am 
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The point for me is, do I want to be part of that alleged "Community" (or, in LCS terms "ay Conlanger"), or do I just want to stay some person on the internet who's got a geeky, not too common hobby and who doesn't want to get all Organized and Represented by a Lobby – in other words, "a conlanger", a person who does this not for the community spirit, but as their private creative outlet. What is so cool about being "part of the Community", being "an Enthusiast", that everyone should join? Also, I wonder whether it really needs a lobby to promote inventing languages. People will find it a weird and maybe even grotesque thing to do anyway, lobby and promotion or not.

Actually, personally, I find it OK that you aggregate blogs (mine is among them, too) and other links so as to serve as roadsigns to show the variety there is, and it's awesome that you take all the effort to have a convention for us bunch of nerds to meet. Though note that it's not like we didn't organize small meetings here before: Our Brits used to meet fairly regularly, I believe, up until 2 or so years ago. Larger meetings definitely need organization (with a small "o"), but the whole thing about wielding titles for titles' sake seems self-important and bewildering to me, to be honest. I'm not interested in meeting the President of the Language Creation Society and his Vice President, or whatever. Instead, meeting David and Henrik as persons who happen to share part of my interests, and not as tokens/representatives/officials/whatever, is much nicer a prospect. Also, as was mentioned, I am sure that part of the animosities people here have comes not necessarily from the construct "LCS" itself, but also from the "strange vibe" Sai has given off at times, as Zompist called it. Indeed, I've sometimes got the impression that the LCS was basically an ego trip of Sai's. In and of itself, I don't think it's a bad thing to have a hobby club dedicated to language creation and its ilk – hobby clubs are deeply rooted in German culture ;) – but this whole lobbyism and officialism thing I don't understand, really. I'm active in 3 clubs myself (my church, my guitar ensemble, and the youth organisation my youth group belongs to), and nowhere have I met this officialist attitude although there are first chairmen, treasurers, and such.

Anyway, the whole politicization that seems to be going on here (and indeed enforced by certain people) really starts to get on my nerves. I was looking forward to attending LCC4 as a way to meet some of you people (not some of you officials), since language creators as organized (again, with a small "o") in the various fora are rather disparate, especially here in Europe, so international meetings don't happen too often, and now this :? I'll still attend because tickets are already booked, but meh. I hope very much that the upcoming LCC will not be a major LCS recruiting fest.

My €0.02.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:09 am 
Lebom
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Oh oh oh oh I WANT TO RANT TOO!

Just kidding. I'm not feeling at all ranty. Here's my $2.00, broken down in a hopefully somewhat organized way:

I don't know what the beef is with Saizai, his personality, or his (prior) leadership of the LCS. I didn't talk to the guy that much (read: hardly at all) -- when I did, he was nice enough. I don't care, either, in this case since a) he's not even participating in this conversation and b) the LCS isn't under his direction anymore. I got the impression that he took conlanging very seriously and wanted to make it a more visible and respected 'art.' He took it a lot more seriously than I (and most people did), but you get the same type of people in playing horseshoes, Magic: The Gathering, yo-yo-ing, making ASCII art, and gods knows what other obscure/geeky hobbies there are out there.

I don't understand the vitrolic "OMG U TAKEZ MAH FREEDUM" outcry. Like many people have said (and which I believe is true), it's not like the LCS is some mob-boss with a baseball bat saying, "Nice conlang you've got there...it'd be a shame if something happened to it." Membership isn't "required", or even encouraged, to be a conlanger. Other than paying some dues and getting some inside information and/or discounts to events, I don't really see any difference it makes to one's life whether one is or is not a member. You can still make your OMG awesome romlang either way, still show up at LCCs either way, etc. The only difference is whether or not you want to be associated / part of the organization and its activities. If you don't, then... don't.

I do understand the ruffled feathers over the LCS saying that it "represents" conlangers. It doesn't. It represents the conlangers which are its members. (Perhaps a bad analogy, but:) Kinda like the Pope doesn't represent Christians. He represents Catholics. Perhaps more specifically, Roman Catholics. I believe the LCS would garner somewhat less (overblown) hostility regarding this if it would make that distinction, especially to 'outsiders.' (Read: non-conlangers.) Every organization, no matter how big or small, by nature has some manner of shared viewpoint, agenda, or goal that non-members might not agree with. Don't pretend you don't; just accept it and share it with outsiders that that's the case.

The debate over the LCS vs an LCS is simply absurd.

And if people are so upset about it being "the" Language Creation Society or "the" conlanging organization" or whatever -- start your own. No one's stopping you. Start la Socida do Neo-Ladina Lenga or Der Gadrun fon Mannisgemechten Sprekten or whatnot. Then there'd be more than one, and they'd be "a" conlanging organization.

Oh, and to DBoozer, whom I've never met before: hi!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:54 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:01 pm 
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It is my experience that recently established organizations tend more towards making a big deal of titles and stuff like that. (Modeling themselves, I guess, on high-prestige organizations where a chairmanship really is a big deal). Tends to reduce by time, but that also depends on the organization and its board in general.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:39 pm 
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.


Last edited by TomHChappell on Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:19 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:53 pm 
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If I joined, would I have to start as an apprentice conlanger and work up, or will the right contacts buy me a shortcut to master conlanger?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:09 pm 
Avisaru
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*agrees with Jashan*. I don't get the reason for all the fuss. If you want to join, join; if you want to stay out, stay out. The LCS cannot do anything to you for not joining.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:08 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:49 am 
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Even better than a proto-conlang, it's the *kondn̥ǵʰwéh₂s


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:32 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:55 pm 
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No, two consecutive posts. The first post I made was a) a reply to a different person about a different thing, and b) made at a different time.

It's true that maybe I should have replied to Dboozer in one post. However, I broke the coda off into a second post because i) I wanted to emphasise it and not have it be lost in the morass; and ii) because I the first post was a rebuttal of his posts, while the second post was a more general summation of the argument to that point, not addressing any part of what he had said in particular - so I saw it as, as it were, creating a second strand to the thread. You'll note that I said that the 'no double-posts' guidelines had exceptions?

I think that starting second strand by double-posting is different from and more polite than quintuple-posting within a single strand.

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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
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