Confusing headlines and other trips down the garden path
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
Killed woman impersonator sentenced
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- ol bofosh
- Smeric
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
So a person that imitates a killed woman is sentenced? Sentenced for what, killing the killed woman? Impersonating a killed woman? Driving the wrong way down a motorway?Salmoneus wrote:Killed woman impersonator sentenced
Wait... someone that impersonates the real murder was sentenced instead of the real murder? Is that any warmer?
It was about time I changed this.
Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
I read that two possible ways:
((Killed woman) impersonator) sentenced
i.e. the person sentenced impersonated a woman who had been killed
and:
(Killed (woman impersonator)) sentenced
i.e. the (presently dead) person sentenced had impersonated a woman and then had been killed
((Killed woman) impersonator) sentenced
i.e. the person sentenced impersonated a woman who had been killed
and:
(Killed (woman impersonator)) sentenced
i.e. the (presently dead) person sentenced had impersonated a woman and then had been killed
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
- KathTheDragon
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
Unfortunately, syntax forces that last one to be along the lines of 'a dead person has been sentenced'.
Only in America.
Only in America.
Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
"Marine biologists probe cause of sick sea lion pups"
1. [Marine biologists] probe [cause of...] (i.e. the marine biologists are probing the cause)
2. [Marine biologists probe] [cause of...] (i.e. a probe of marine biologists is the cause)
"Abu Dhabi plans financial free zone, may resemble Dubai"
1. The financial free zone may resemble Dubai.
2. Abu Dhabi may resemble Dubai.
1. [Marine biologists] probe [cause of...] (i.e. the marine biologists are probing the cause)
2. [Marine biologists probe] [cause of...] (i.e. a probe of marine biologists is the cause)
"Abu Dhabi plans financial free zone, may resemble Dubai"
1. The financial free zone may resemble Dubai.
2. Abu Dhabi may resemble Dubai.
MI DRALAS, KHARULE MEVO STANI?!
- KathTheDragon
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
Option two of that first one is thankfully prevented by the lack of an apostrophe. It would have to be "Marine biologists' probe".
- Salmoneus
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
No. If it's a probe owned by marine biologists, yes. But a probe INTO marine biologists (eg a government investigation into their behaviour) wouldn't have the apostrophe.KathAveara wrote:Option two of that first one is thankfully prevented by the lack of an apostrophe. It would have to be "Marine biologists' probe".
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
You're right concerning the orthography, but I doubt that's an interpretation any reader of the headline would come up with.Salmoneus wrote:No. If it's a probe owned by marine biologists, yes. But a probe INTO marine biologists (eg a government investigation into their behaviour) wouldn't have the apostrophe.KathAveara wrote:Option two of that first one is thankfully prevented by the lack of an apostrophe. It would have to be "Marine biologists' probe".
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
I first read "cause" as a short form of "because". I thought that sick sea pups were making the marine biologists probe things.
Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
More, these all from the New York Times' U.S. news main page.
"Charlotte Mayor Is Chosen as Transportation Chief"
1. "The mayor of Charlotte is chosen..."
2. "Someone named 'Charlotte Mayor' is chosen..." (cf. Melissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo)
"California: Prisons Ordered to Move Some Inmates"
So in order to move some inmates, California has ordered prisons? How much is shipping and handling for a prison?
"Lawyer Details Jackson's Struggle With Drugs"
Did Jackson struggle with drugs, or did the lawyer use drugs to detail Jackson's struggle?
"Lawyers Hint at Insanity Plea Without Holmes' OK"
Is it "[Lawyers Hint at Insanity Plea] Without Holmes' OK", or "Lawyers Hint at [Insanity Plea Without Holmes' OK]"?
"Charlotte Mayor Is Chosen as Transportation Chief"
1. "The mayor of Charlotte is chosen..."
2. "Someone named 'Charlotte Mayor' is chosen..." (cf. Melissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo)
"California: Prisons Ordered to Move Some Inmates"
So in order to move some inmates, California has ordered prisons? How much is shipping and handling for a prison?
"Lawyer Details Jackson's Struggle With Drugs"
Did Jackson struggle with drugs, or did the lawyer use drugs to detail Jackson's struggle?
"Lawyers Hint at Insanity Plea Without Holmes' OK"
Is it "[Lawyers Hint at Insanity Plea] Without Holmes' OK", or "Lawyers Hint at [Insanity Plea Without Holmes' OK]"?
MI DRALAS, KHARULE MEVO STANI?!
- Pogostick Man
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
"Marine biologists" would most likely not be plural then, though, because the phrase would basically be an ersatz compound, right?Salmoneus wrote:No. If it's a probe owned by marine biologists, yes. But a probe INTO marine biologists (eg a government investigation into their behaviour) wouldn't have the apostrophe.KathAveara wrote:Option two of that first one is thankfully prevented by the lack of an apostrophe. It would have to be "Marine biologists' probe".
Last edited by Pogostick Man on Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Drydic
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
what the shit are you trying to say?Linguifex wrote:"Marine biologiests" would most likely not be plural then, though, because the phrase would basically be an ersatz compound, right?Salmoneus wrote:No. If it's a probe owned by marine biologists, yes. But a probe INTO marine biologists (eg a government investigation into their behaviour) wouldn't have the apostrophe.KathAveara wrote:Option two of that first one is thankfully prevented by the lack of an apostrophe. It would have to be "Marine biologists' probe".
- Hallow XIII
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
[m@r\i:n baIOlOdZi:sts]
陳第 wrote:蓋時有古今,地有南北;字有更革,音有轉移,亦勢所必至。
Read all about my excellent conlangsR.Rusanov wrote:seks istiyorum
sex want-PRS-1sg
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- Radius Solis
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
It would be one, but why in Hell you'd think that would prevent "biologists" from being plural is a complete mystery to me. Vanish, geist, to whence thou camest.Linguifex wrote: "Marine biologiests" would most likely not be plural then, though, because the phrase would basically be an ersatz compound, right?
- Pogostick Man
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
RE: "Marine biologists probe cause of sick sea lion pups": Well, in my Morphology class, we learned that compounds in English tend to disallow plurals as the non-head element—birdhouses, not *birdshouses. There are a few exceptions to this (e.g., glasses case, although the word "glasses" is inherently plural; there are also the weird examples of numbers stations and numbers runners).
So "Marine biologists probe cause of sick sea lion pups" can only mean "Some marine biologists are looking into the reason why sea lion pups are falling ill". It cannot mean "The marine biologists' probe is the reason why sea lion pups are falling ill".
Also, I can't believe I spelled "biologists" wrong…
So "Marine biologists probe cause of sick sea lion pups" can only mean "Some marine biologists are looking into the reason why sea lion pups are falling ill". It cannot mean "The marine biologists' probe is the reason why sea lion pups are falling ill".
Also, I can't believe I spelled "biologists" wrong…
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
athiests r evuil.Drydic Guy wrote:what the shit are you trying to say?
- Salmoneus
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
What? No! Sure, compound words usually have the noun be singular, but that doesn't mean you singularise every word just because it's modifying another words.Linguifex wrote:RE: "Marine biologists probe cause of sick sea lion pups": Well, in my Morphology class, we learned that compounds in English tend to disallow plurals as the non-head element—birdhouses, not *birdshouses. There are a few exceptions to this (e.g., glasses case, although the word "glasses" is inherently plural; there are also the weird examples of numbers stations and numbers runners).
So "Marine biologists probe cause of sick sea lion pups" can only mean "Some marine biologists are looking into the reason why sea lion pups are falling ill". It cannot mean "The marine biologists' probe is the reason why sea lion pups are falling ill".
Also, I can't believe I spelled "biologists" wrong…
Taking a few examples from the Major ministry:
- the cash for questions affair
- the homes for votes scandal
- the back to basics campaign
- the cones hotline
It certainly can't mean 'the marine biologists' probe is the reason why', but it can mean 'the marine biologists probe is the reason why'.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- Pogostick Man
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
"Cash for questions", "homes for votes", and "back to basics" don't come across in the same way as would just a single word such as "cones"; they're more like lexicalized phrases, or so it seems. (I'd personally write them with hyphens—"the cash-for-questions affair", "the homes-for-votes scandal", "the back-to-basics campaign".) "Cash for questions" and "homes for votes" seem like shorthand for or names that would be given to ideas or programs, which would make them singulars with plural components. "Back to basics" seems more like an adjectival phrase. "The cones hotline" is a real good counterexample, though. "Marine biologists probe" as a compound still comes across as ungrammatical to me, however.Salmoneus wrote:What? No! Sure, compound words usually have the noun be singular, but that doesn't mean you singularise every word just because it's modifying another words.
Taking a few examples from the Major ministry:
- the cash for questions affair
- the homes for votes scandal
- the back to basics campaign
- the cones hotline
It certainly can't mean 'the marine biologists' probe is the reason why', but it can mean 'the marine biologists probe is the reason why'.
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- Radius Solis
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
That's all an argument about standard English - the example was not standard English, but rather headline English. And in headline English you do get compounds with internal plurals. For example: Boston bombings suspect moved from hospital to prison.
- Salmoneus
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
Not a headline, but it caused me a moment of amusement. Discussing the decision to prohibit Rafsanjani from standing:
Mr Rafsanjani did not comment, but his supporters denounced the decision to exclude him on social media
Poor Mr Rafsanjani. Not only can he not be President, but now everyone's sending him to Coventry on Facebook!
Mr Rafsanjani did not comment, but his supporters denounced the decision to exclude him on social media
Poor Mr Rafsanjani. Not only can he not be President, but now everyone's sending him to Coventry on Facebook!
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
All of bulbaquil's examples may be grammatically ambiguous, but I don't they are actually confusing.
- Salmoneus
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
Actually, I think the final one is... well, not 'confusing' exactly, but I don't know which of the two meanings is meant to apply. Hinting without permission and hinting at doing something without permission are both things lawyers do.clawgrip wrote:All of bulbaquil's examples may be grammatically ambiguous, but I don't they are actually confusing.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
Judge to rape victim: Some women enjoy being raped
First I read it as "the judge is to rape the victim"...
First I read it as "the judge is to rape the victim"...
- Salmoneus
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
Yep, same here.Astraios wrote:Judge to rape victim: Some women enjoy being raped
First I read it as "the judge is to rape the victim"...
[And what he said is also clearly true - it's entirely possible to enjoy something you didn't want to happen, particularly when you move away from the prototypical violent stranger rape and toward the far-more-common forms like date rape and spousal rape. I know it sounds misogynist, because it's something misogynists can say... but when you think about it, "if she likes it at all it can't have been rape, whatever she says" (the entailment of the negation) is actually even more misogynist!]
Anyway, this one also genuinely baffled me at first:
England wait too long for Cole.
This one didn't baffle me, but was amusing:
Ruler of the World victorious at Epsom
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- Herr Dunkel
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Re: Confusing headlines, and other trips down the garden pat
The fuck?Salmoneus wrote: England wait too long for Cole.
We to drop number and person from word now?
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